On Schwab, I think it is fair for questions to be asked about what exactly he has achieved in his time at the club;

- AAMI Park was set-up by the previous admin

- Kaspersky was lured by a supporter overseas

- Hankook, although led by a long term supporter, ceased business with the club due to being unhappy about their treatment

- The debt was wiped by supporters and on the back of Stynes and his goodwill

- Energy Watch was signed either without looking into Polis' previous business dealings or neglecting them

- Failed to sign a second jumper sponsor for 2012 until well after the season had started

- Allegedly meddled too much in the FD resulting in the fracturing of the club between admin/FD

- Webjet signed after being approached by a supporter and no knowledge of how much Webjet/Opel sponsorship is worth (after the spruiking of how much EW was worth you would assume it is vastly less than that otherwise we would know about it)

I'm sure there is some stuff I am missing here and Schwab is not all bad and obviously has some redeeming features but I think the negatives outweigh the positives at this stage and I think he will be gone at the end of the year.

One thing I think is overlooked is the relationship between Schwab/admin and the FD. Even if Schwab has been put in his place after the debacle that was 2011 the noses seem to have already been put out of joint and the damage done. If this is the case then regardless of how good a CEO he might be (and I think the jury is out) he still has to go as you cannot have a successful football club when there is disunity between the on & off-field components.

  On 30/05/2012 at 00:04, Pipefitter said:

I hate being this negative about it but its about as pessimistic as I've ever been about the club. The 2008 rebuild was necessary. What we are going through now is just a joke. The last 4 years are a blueprint of how not to rebuild a footy club.

I could not disagree more. They had to rebuild the commercial operations of the club first in order to pay for a competitive footy department spend. They can't just click their fingers and get a pot of gold.

  On 30/05/2012 at 00:44, Dr. Gonzo said:

On Schwab, I think it is fair for questions to be asked about what exactly he has achieved in his time at the club;

- AAMI Park was set-up by the previous admin

- Kaspersky was lured by a supporter overseas

- Hankook, although led by a long term supporter, ceased business with the club due to being unhappy about their treatment

- The debt was wiped by supporters and on the back of Stynes and his goodwill

- Energy Watch was signed either without looking into Polis' previous business dealings or neglecting them

- Failed to sign a second jumper sponsor for 2012 until well after the season had started

- Allegedly meddled too much in the FD resulting in the fracturing of the club between admin/FD

- Webjet signed after being approached by a supporter and no knowledge of how much Webjet/Opel sponsorship is worth (after the spruiking of how much EW was worth you would assume it is vastly less than that otherwise we would know about it)

I'm sure there is some stuff I am missing here and Schwab is not all bad and obviously has some redeeming features but I think the negatives outweigh the positives at this stage and I think he will be gone at the end of the year.

One thing I think is overlooked is the relationship between Schwab/admin and the FD. Even if Schwab has been put in his place after the debacle that was 2011 the noses seem to have already been put out of joint and the damage done. If this is the case then regardless of how good a CEO he might be (and I think the jury is out) he still has to go as you cannot have a successful football club when there is disunity between the on & off-field components.

If it was Schwab and Connolly who, with a seriously ill Jimmy the nominal Footy Director, had to tell the Board not to extend Bailey's contract then they did what had to be done.

  On 30/05/2012 at 00:44, Dr. Gonzo said:

On Schwab, I think it is fair for questions to be asked about what exactly he has achieved in his time at the club;

- AAMI Park was set-up by the previous admin

- Kaspersky was lured by a supporter overseas

- Hankook, although led by a long term supporter, ceased business with the club due to being unhappy about their treatment

- The debt was wiped by supporters and on the back of Stynes and his goodwill

- Energy Watch was signed either without looking into Polis' previous business dealings or neglecting them

- Failed to sign a second jumper sponsor for 2012 until well after the season had started

- Allegedly meddled too much in the FD resulting in the fracturing of the club between admin/FD

- Webjet signed after being approached by a supporter and no knowledge of how much Webjet/Opel sponsorship is worth (after the spruiking of how much EW was worth you would assume it is vastly less than that otherwise we would know about it)

I'm sure there is some stuff I am missing here and Schwab is not all bad and obviously has some redeeming features but I think the negatives outweigh the positives at this stage and I think he will be gone at the end of the year.

One thing I think is overlooked is the relationship between Schwab/admin and the FD. Even if Schwab has been put in his place after the debacle that was 2011 the noses seem to have already been put out of joint and the damage done. If this is the case then regardless of how good a CEO he might be (and I think the jury is out) he still has to go as you cannot have a successful football club when there is disunity between the on & off-field components.

Completely understand where you are coming from but I could be Devil's Advocate on a few of these and it wouldn't sound so poor for Cameron.

The board may not see fit to renew him, but I would hope they have all the info to make that decision. We clearly don't. As for 186, all areas of the club looked naive and dysfunctional, I am yet to be convinced that this was a straight up-and-down 'Evil Admin' story and that Schwab was the bad guy. I have heard a lot of differing opinions over what was happening at the club and it doesn't all point to Cameron as the protagonist.

With that in mind, we may be better off without anyone invovled at the club from that time, but the board has the responsibility to make that determination.

  On 29/05/2012 at 22:51, hardtack said:

I agree with rjay... this really appears to be a case of damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Everyone criticises Sheehan for his comments and the fact he offers no solutions, then when he does outline what he sees as being wrong with the club and where changes need to be made, he is lambasted because he hasn't come up with any wildly original or new theories. The other thing that annoys me is the fact that because he is a supposed Dees supporter, this somehow gives this club immunity against criticism from him; he becomes yet another "class traitor" like Judd and Scully etc Seriously, we have some of the most well balanced supporters in the AFL (a chip on each shoulder).

Spot on Hardtack

There are a sizable number of people on Demonland who constantly want to shoot the messenger.

What is we do not understand?

The last four years rebuild has produced a list that may well be the worst in the league.

We are bottom of the ladder, no wins with an average losing margin of almost 10 goals.

By any measure that is failure with a capital F.

CS aquired a major sponsor that did not have a good reputation, there were queries about Energy Watch went we dived in head first.

A few months later we all witnessed the implosion

The buck stops with 2 people the Chairman and GM.

If there is not a dramatic change by the end of August both of these people should be removed from the MFC.

The honourable thing for them to do is fall on their swords but failing that they should be replaced.

At the MFC we are too nice, The bombers and Tigers have taken drastic action in the last couple of years and look were they sit.

I would like to see the Dees a power before I die at the current rate that will not happen.

Drastic situations deserve drastic action.

Get on with it MFC lets not die wondering.

Schwab's got a vision for the club with the Red and Blueprint and it's based on our heritage as the games founders - the emblem, the blazers etc - they fit this plan - he's trying to capitalise on our differentiating features. This should help distinguish us for sponsors. What's the alternative "iMelbourne"?

Supporters are just as vital and appealing to younger supporters is a challenge - we've got the work out at Casey in this area. The key ingredient is winning. The fracture in the club last year appears to have been Schwab v Bailey and not managed very effectively by the Board. But if you believe in Neeld's appointment and methods then Schwab was right. Right about what we need to be succesful on the field.

That argument is plausible as well and lets face it, if we were winning no-one would be asking questions. There are definite issues/queries though as I raised above and whether or not these will be seen as "bad" enough for Schwab to lose his job (or whether he is seen as accountable for them) will remain to be seen.

Is the Red & Blueprint available publicly? I'm not sure that I've seen it or maybe I have and have forgotten.

  On 30/05/2012 at 02:32, Dr. Gonzo said:

That argument is plausible as well and lets face it, if we were winning no-one would be asking questions. There are definite issues/queries though as I raised above and whether or not these will be seen as "bad" enough for Schwab to lose his job (or whether he is seen as accountable for them) will remain to be seen.

Is the Red & Blueprint available publicly? I'm not sure that I've seen it or maybe I have and have forgotten.

Dear Dr. When you find it I would like a look as well.

It may be file before Pink and Blue and Maroon and Blue

Seriously all this hertage stuff gives me the gripes.

The only hertiage I am interested in is a winning one.

Lets concentrate on that and leave the god awful blazers in the lost property room

I see a future for the MFC

In the past few years most of the Vic clubs have had major debt....Carlton still have a 5 mill debt...Coll nearly shut their doors and handed back the keys 8 years ago despite have the largest membership in the AFL.....Even last year the Pt Adel footy club were just about stuffed......The bulldogs and Nth Melb are still just hanging on...Still attempting to reduce their million dollar debt

We, at the moment, have cleared our debt, put a large amount of cash into the football dept(for the first time in God knows how long)

We have revamped our football dept

This is a result of the board and the admin(People who run the club)

The playing side of things will turn, despite all the prophets of doom,despite all the people who demand instant sucess

After living through the late 60's 70's early 80's.....This is the first time that I have confidence for the club as a whole....

  On 30/05/2012 at 03:04, Bossdog said:

I see a future for the MFC

In the past few years most of the Vic clubs have had major debt....Carlton still have a 5 mill debt...Coll nearly shut their doors and handed back the keys 8 years ago despite have the largest membership in the AFL.....Even last year the Pt Adel footy club were just about stuffed......The bulldogs and Nth Melb are still just hanging on...Still attempting to reduce their million dollar debt

We, at the moment, have cleared our debt, put a large amount of cash into the football dept(for the first time in God knows how long)

We have revamped our football dept

This is a result of the board and the admin(People who run the club)

The playing side of things will turn, despite all the prophets of doom,despite all the people who demand instant sucess

After living through the late 60's 70's early 80's.....This is the first time that I have confidence for the club as a whole....

Well said.

The reason why depression levels on here are at all time highs when it comes to 'the future' is because the most visible aspect of the club and its future is the team and the team is not going great.

Of course, onfield performance is all that matters in the end but I would say that I would prefer my club to do what they think will win a flag than continue on with average performances and results due to a fear of failure or the ramifications of poor short term results.

  On 30/05/2012 at 00:44, Dr. Gonzo said:

One thing I think is overlooked is the relationship between Schwab/admin and the FD. Even if Schwab has been put in his place after the debacle that was 2011 the noses seem to have already been put out of joint and the damage done. If this is the case then regardless of how good a CEO he might be (and I think the jury is out) he still has to go as you cannot have a successful football club when there is disunity between the on & off-field components.

But weren't all those noses replaced when they rebuilt virtually all of the FD?

So if that "interference" still lingers - where?

Is it that the players can't readjust? Are they just irreparable damaged goods?

I don't have the answers but we sure seem to be suffering from a lack of "true" "effective" leadership

Do we give the new FD regime time or do we spill more blood.....or a bit of both?

If we spill more blood we must make sure we target the real problems and not the perceived problems

We really don't know enough of what really goes on in the club

Just some silly silly comments here.

Funny how you guys can blame Schwabb for everything but at the same time give him credit for nothing.

How can you say "he's the CEO so it's all his responsibility" about the bad things, but then give the credit for the good things to someone else?!

  On 30/05/2012 at 03:04, Bossdog said:

I see a future for the MFC

In the past few years most of the Vic clubs have had major debt....Carlton still have a 5 mill debt...Coll nearly shut their doors and handed back the keys 8 years ago despite have the largest membership in the AFL.....Even last year the Pt Adel footy club were just about stuffed......The bulldogs and Nth Melb are still just hanging on...Still attempting to reduce their million dollar debt

We, at the moment, have cleared our debt, put a large amount of cash into the football dept(for the first time in God knows how long)

We have revamped our football dept

This is a result of the board and the admin(People who run the club)

The playing side of things will turn, despite all the prophets of doom,despite all the people who demand instant sucess

After living through the late 60's 70's early 80's.....This is the first time that I have confidence for the club as a whole....

I agree with most of the above Bossdog.

The exceptions are

-We are the worse side in the competition with no wins and an average losing margin of almost 10 goals.

This is five years into a rebuild that we were told was necessary and would take time.

We are at this level after five years and still waiting, to want more at this point can hardly be descibed as wanting instant sucess.

- There are still gaping holes in our management structure

  On 30/05/2012 at 01:08, old dee said:

Drastic situations deserve drastic action.

I thought we've had the drastic action. Do you want to throw out all of the last nine months since last season and start all over again? To me that's a recipe for disaster

Now it depends on whether you think the change is working, or will work, or not. I think the coaching staff are saying all the performance indicators are that we have a long way to go to be a good offensive, defensive and battle-fit side, but that we are working towards it. Neeld, Misson et al know exactly where we are and where we want to get to, and how big the gap is. There now has to be some trust from supporters that the club has made the hard, 'drastic' decisions, that it is going to mean revolution not evolution (at least in the beginning), and like all revolutions, things will be tough for a time.

Mike Sheahan wouldn't have a clue about what those indicators, goals and projections are for the team, or what the football department is actually doing. Schwab is just an easy target.

By the way, my understanding is that the football department sees no problem with Schwab's management, nor any 'interference' that is detrimental.

  On 30/05/2012 at 03:19, old dee said:

I agree with most of the above Bossdog.

The exceptions are

-We are the worse side in the competition with no wins and an average losing margin of almost 10 goals.

This is five years into a rebuild that we were told was necessary and would take time.

We are at this level after five years and still waiting, to want more at this point can hardly be descibed as wanting instant sucess.

- There are still gaping holes in our management structure

What I was saying old dee, was that the new FD and money to sustain it has only just happened

How long ago were we still training at the junction oval (when cricket allowed us to)????

We now have AAMI park, a base at Casey(don't knock it,a lot of kids go to watch us train and attend footy camps there)

I know you are pessimistic about our future .....I just see that things are just now starting to be set in place for a better future

Not having a go but can you explain to me the 'Gaping holes' in our managment. I value your opinion....

  On 30/05/2012 at 03:11, rpfc said:

Well said.

The reason why depression levels on here are at all time highs when it comes to 'the future' is because the most visible aspect of the club and its future is the team and the team is not going great.

Of course, onfield performance is all that matters in the end but I would say that I would prefer my club to do what they think will win a flag than continue on with average performances and results due to a fear of failure or the ramifications of poor short term results.

rpfc I would be happy if the above were true.

We are in this position because we did a very poor job in the past 4 years.

It was not by design.

There is now no choice.

It is not because we were brave or clever

  On 30/05/2012 at 03:17, stuie said:

Just some silly silly comments here.

Funny how you guys can blame Schwabb for everything but at the same time give him credit for nothing.

How can you say "he's the CEO so it's all his responsibility" about the bad things, but then give the credit for the good things to someone else?!

Stuie it comes down to accountablity. That is part of being a CEO.

Many things CS has done have been great, but we are in the current position.

The club should never have gone down this far on field, i don't care what the explanations are. Certain things went wrong in a big way.

So the CEO should be accountable.

His speech at last years AGM was devoid of any serious club matters, which some on here made mention to the next day.

To much silence and terrible on field results for my liking...

  On 30/05/2012 at 03:37, why you little said:

Stuie it comes down to accountablity. That is part of being a CEO.

Many things CS has done have been great, but we are in the current position.

The club should never have gone down this far on field, i don't care what the explanations are. Certain things went wrong in a big way.

So the CEO should be accountable.

His speech at last years AGM was devoid of any serious club matters, which some on here made mention to the next day.

To much silence and terrible on field results for my liking...

Yeah you're right, he should be getting more kicks or making more changes on game day.... Oh wait, that's NOT HIS JOB.

The off field stuff is going pretty bloody awesome when you consider how hard it would be to sell an effortless team to sponsors etc.

  On 30/05/2012 at 03:31, Bossdog said:

What I was saying old dee, was that the new FD and money to sustain it has only just happened

How long ago were we still training at the junction oval (when cricket allowed us to)????

We now have AAMI park, a base at Casey(don't knock it,a lot of kids go to watch us train and attend footy camps there)

I know you are pessimistic about our future .....I just see that things are just now starting to be set in place for a better future

Not having a go but can you explain to me the 'Gaping holes' in our managment. I value your opinion....

Bossdog I think we are in basic agreement but I am very tried of the patience thread.

I acknowledge that there is not much we can do about the players we have and our position.

We are in the same position ( player wise ) we were in 4 years ago and that will take quite a while to change.

So like you I just have to wait but it is bloody frustrating.

Re the management.

I see the GM and our Chairman ( reluctantly took the position he never wanted ) as average. Both have been around a few years now and look where they have bought us to mid 2012.

For better or worse the buck stops at their doors, time for them to move aside.

  On 30/05/2012 at 03:44, stuie said:

Yeah you're right, he should be getting more kicks or making more changes on game day.... Oh wait, that's NOT HIS JOB.

The off field stuff is going pretty bloody awesome when you consider how hard it would be to sell an effortless team to sponsors etc.

No as CEO onfield is not his job. BUT as CEO of the MFC he is ultimately responsible for what the results of the entire club are.

  On 30/05/2012 at 03:44, stuie said:

Yeah you're right, he should be getting more kicks or making more changes on game day.... Oh wait, that's NOT HIS JOB.

The off field stuff is going pretty bloody awesome when you consider how hard it would be to sell an effortless team to sponsors etc.

Stuie this could easily be the worse on field performance by a MFC team in 50 years.

In the end the buck stops at the door of the Chairman and GM.

If we look at the performance of both during 2011 and since I see little that gives me confidence they are the ones to lead us into 2013 and beyond.

  On 30/05/2012 at 03:21, maurie said:

I thought we've had the drastic action. Do you want to throw out all of the last nine months since last season and start all over again? To me that's a recipe for disaster

Now it depends on whether you think the change is working, or will work, or not. I think the coaching staff are saying all the performance indicators are that we have a long way to go to be a good offensive, defensive and battle-fit side, but that we are working towards it. Neeld, Misson et al know exactly where we are and where we want to get to, and how big the gap is. There now has to be some trust from supporters that the club has made the hard, 'drastic' decisions, that it is going to mean revolution not evolution (at least in the beginning), and like all revolutions, things will be tough for a time.

Mike Sheahan wouldn't have a clue about what those indicators, goals and projections are for the team, or what the football department is actually doing. Schwab is just an easy target.

By the way, my understanding is that the football department sees no problem with Schwab's management, nor any 'interference' that is detrimental.

The drastic action I was suggesting is at the top.

You know what? Sheahan probably knows a lot more than you and I put together about the working of the MFC.

  On 30/05/2012 at 04:02, old dee said:

The drastic action I was suggesting is at the top.

You know what? Sheahan probably knows a lot more than you and I put together about the working of the MFC.

I don't see how changing the 'top' at this stage is going to change the win /loss ratio....All we need is a couple of wins and the whole depressing feeling around the club will pass....There will be posters that say 'I told you so.......' other will say 'We have only beaten so and so' Sacking the board and the CEO at this stage would be suicide....

  On 30/05/2012 at 04:17, Bossdog said:

I don't see how changing the 'top' at this stage is going to change the win /loss ratio....All we need is a couple of wins and the whole depressing feeling around the club will pass....There will be posters that say 'I told you so.......' other will say 'We have only beaten so and so' Sacking the board and the CEO at this stage would be suicide....

All i ask is...Are they the best people available to do the job? Because right now we need the best. Not the nicest or the biggest MFC supporters. But we need the best business brains available to turn this wounded old beast around, and we need them soon.

  On 29/05/2012 at 23:58, Pipefitter said:

And there have been no results.

You're serious? The coaching appointments (getting Craig and Brown when a number of clubs were trying for them, pinching Misson etc.), including the development coaches for each line, Mitch Clark, clearing the debt, moving to new premises, the new sponsorships, Bentleigh club. Massive turnaround from where we were pre-Jimmy.

But that's OK, keep your head in the sand.