In before we have these high draft picks, and completely put them to waste. Recruiting players who resemble the likes of Brock Mclean, Cale Morton, Mitch Thorp and get completely scrutinised again by the media for the following 4 years of how we should have picked "Joe Blogs" instead.

I think this was addressed by informing him that any player who refused to play for the club they were drafted to would be suspended for X number of seasons.

Correct. If this club wants to improve and challenge the top end of the ladder, we simply must fight tooth & nail for players who will help that cause. It is part of the "culture" issue. At present the MFC is a target. We need to become the innovator.

Correct. If this club wants to improve and challenge the top end of the ladder, we simply must fight tooth & nail for players who will help that cause. It is part of the "culture" issue. At present the MFC is a target. We need to become the innovator.

He'd be a bigger sulk than Davey...Thats if he did play.

Innovation has nothing to do with punting early picks on players who had a question mark on their medical history and had refused to speak with the Club.

He'd be a bigger sulk than Davey...Thats if he did play.

Innovation has nothing to do with punting early picks on players who had a question mark on their medical history and had refused to speak with the Club.

"That's if he did play" says Rhino...How many games did Ball miss in 2010-11??

This club of ours has to take what ever it can when opportunities arise.

Our response to Ball was.."we might try and take him for free if he falls late in the draft"

That attitude is biting the club hard right now.

Far too conservative...

He would even meet with us and would not provide his medical records. He only wanted to play with Collingwood. He was hardly an opportunity but a significant risk based on what was known at the time.

If Ball was interested in coming to MFC he would have come in the PSD and allowed MFC to maximise its draft picks.

I dont know why you have to fabricate and make up our response to Ball. MFC never meet with him.

You wouldnt have a clue whats biting the Club even if had teeth and growled

He would even meet with us and would not provide his medical records. He only wanted to play with Collingwood. He was hardly an opportunity but a significant risk based on what was known at the time.

If Ball was interested in coming to MFC he would have come in the PSD and allowed MFC to maximise its draft picks.

I dont know why you have to fabricate and make up our response to Ball. MFC never meet with him.

You wouldnt have a clue whats biting the Club even if had teeth and growled

I actually heard Bails talk about at the time on the radio.

As an AFL employee the draft is for all not just the Filth.

There is a lot of our culture problem.

How many games did Ball miss in 2 years Rhino???

If we look at the 2001 draft, it makes some interesting reading... but also the changes in recruiting over the last 11 years may make it largely irrelevant imo.

But even looking at the names taken in the rookie draft:

Carazzo (by Geelong - didn't know he started with them before going to Carlton)

Jamar

Podsiadly (failed stint with Collingwood)

Bret Thornton

Quinten Lynch

Matthew Boyd

Nathan Bock

Aaron Sandilands

Ben Rutten

And then if you look at the first round there are a lot of relative misses:

Polak (4)

X Clarke (5)

Sampi (6)

Hale (7)

Molan (9)

Sam Power (10)

Richard Cole (11)

Ashley Watson (14)

Barry Brooks (15)

Shane Harvey (18)

In a draft that included:

Hodge

Ball

Judd

Bartel

Dal Santo

James Kelly

Jason Gram

Matt Maguire

Seaby

Steve Johnson

LRT

Campbell Brown

David Rodan

Sam Mitchell

Montagna

Ashley Hansen

Ablett Jr.

Jarrad Waite

Andrew Welsh

Brad Miller

Medhurst

Dane Swan

Adam Schneider

Brian Harris (Lake)

It begs the question... are high picks really that valuable?

Recruiting is still such a guessing game.

We've just gotta hope it's now down to much finer science, and that we have the right people in place to make the right selections.

Just pondering though, since so many current established AFL players were all drafted at the same time, will we see a bit of a talent vacuum in the league as a whole in a couple of years?

Probably not.

I actually heard Bails talk about at the time on the radio.

As an AFL employee the draft is for all not just the Filth.

There is a lot of our culture problem.

How many games did Ball miss in 2 years Rhino???

Bailey expressed that the Club would prefer to use the PSD on him. And the reasons are startlingly obvious. Its not a reflection of culture but an expression of preference of action by the Club.

I dont see the relevance of the "AFL employee" issue. He has a right to express his preferences in the draft. You cant outlaw that. Collingwood had navigated a series of clever risks for other Clubs. And we dont know what would have happened if MFC had recruited Ball. There is no certainty he would have played for us and could have finished his career. We did not know his health status and his longevity in the game. We would have also struggled to front end his contract like the Pies did.

At best you have got hindsight to try and concoct an outcome which you dont know would have happened. And try to use that as emblem of some culture issue.. Well thats just d...

If we look at the 2001 draft, it makes some interesting reading... but also the changes in recruiting over the last 11 years may make it largely irrelevant imo.

But even looking at the names taken in the rookie draft:

Carazzo (by Geelong - didn't know he started with them before going to Carlton)

Jamar

Podsiadly (failed stint with Collingwood)

Bret Thornton

Quinten Lynch

Matthew Boyd

Nathan Bock

Aaron Sandilands

Ben Rutten

And then if you look at the first round there are a lot of relative misses:

Polak (4)

X Clarke (5)

Sampi (6)

Hale (7)

Molan (9)

Sam Power (10)

Richard Cole (11)

Ashley Watson (14)

Barry Brooks (15)

Shane Harvey (18)

In a draft that included:

Hodge

Ball

Judd

Bartel

Dal Santo

James Kelly

Jason Gram

Matt Maguire

Seaby

Steve Johnson

LRT

Campbell Brown

David Rodan

Sam Mitchell

Montagna

Ashley Hansen

Ablett Jr.

Jarrad Waite

Andrew Welsh

Brad Miller

Medhurst

Dane Swan

Adam Schneider

Brian Harris (Lake)

It begs the question... are high picks really that valuable?

Recruiting is still such a guessing game.

We've just gotta hope it's now down to much finer science, and that we have the right people in place to make the right selections.

Just pondering though, since so many current established AFL players were all drafted at the same time, will we see a bit of a talent vacuum in the league as a whole in a couple of years?

Probably not.

Recruiting is an art form more than a science and the skill of a recruiiter is identify the talent for AFL. A recruiter is always going to have some hit and misses hopefully more hits than misses.

And if you do a proper analysis of all drafts you will find that the high picks provide you with a greater probability of accessing the best players. And to improve those odds you need a good recruitment team.

BTW, in your use of 2001, the F/S laws and changed. Ablett jnr and Waite were obtained with 3rd round picks. The law changed. Both were first round pick potential. Ablett pushing up into the top bracket.

It begs the question ... are high picks really that valuable?

It doesn't beg the question, it raises the question. Sheesh.

I am well and truely tired of the high light of each season being the discussion on who we might draft at years end.

This year it has start at the end of round three.

That must be an all time record.

You're a bit slow OD, i've been thinking about it since the end of round one.

You're a bit slow OD, i've been thinking about it since the end of round one.

RobbieF - check the above list of other first round picks that were shockers. Even if we had've gone "best available", there was no certainty that we'd have nailed a star, especially given our form at the draft table.

Bailey expressed that the Club would prefer to use the PSD on him. And the reasons are startlingly obvious. Its not a reflection of culture but an expression of preference of action by the Club.

I dont see the relevance of the "AFL employee" issue. He has a right to express his preferences in the draft. You cant outlaw that. Collingwood had navigated a series of clever risks for other Clubs. And we dont know what would have happened if MFC had recruited Ball. There is no certainty he would have played for us and could have finished his career. We did not know his health status and his longevity in the game. We would have also struggled to front end his contract like the Pies did.

At best you have got hindsight to try and concoct an outcome which you dont know would have happened. And try to use that as emblem of some culture issue.. Well thats just d...

Stop being so conservative Rhino, whilst Hammering others...If the MFC had recruited Luke Ball we would have had an elite Midfielder, who is also a brilliant trainer like Chris Judd....My Brother as a Coterie mnember of St.kilda knew Luke & was furious how St.kilda treated him...

All clubs knew his health status, please don't kid yourself....Nobody had the kuhouna's to over step the Filth is far more the point.

Until last Friday night he was a starter in all games....

Yes it is part of the culture issue....We need to play hard ball with the competition if we are ever to lift another cup.

It doesn't beg the question, it raises the question. Sheesh.

What's the tangible difference?

RobbieF - check the above list of other first round picks that were shockers. Even if we had've gone "best available", there was no certainty that we'd have nailed a star, especially given our form at the draft table.

You stalking me?

That was the biggest smorgasboard ever and we finished up with less than scraps from the kitchen bins.

The story of our lives.

My Brother as a Coterie mnember of St.kilda knew Luke & was furious how St.kilda treated him...

My uncle sold sausage roles at Moorabbin and.....

All clubs knew his health status, please don't kid yourself....Nobody had the kuhouna's to over step the Filth is far more the point.

They didnt and stop making it up. You are being foolish (again).

You're a bit slow OD, i've been thinking about it since the end of round one.

Funnily I had not thought of it at all till this thread emerged.

I supposed that does make me slow.

I still cannot bring myself to think about it at present.

I think deep down i still have a tiny thread of hope that we will improve before the end of August.

It is 1 Um thick at present

Fine, I don't disagree, but who would you trade for?

What realistic targets are out there?

Good point. We are going to need more than one or top shelf two players so won't be able to go silly with an offer for a superstar (or we won't have the cash to get more than one decent player - we certainly don't need more spuds) And realistically which players would actually want to come to the dees at the moment.

There's every chance free agency is going to hurt us as we won't be able to attract anyone, though i suppose Jamar could be the only demon likely to attract attention from other clubs (and his star is fading). Correct me if i'm wrong but there will be compo picks for clubs that lose players through free agency, which could cause our picks to be bumped down the order in the (increasingly unlikely) event teams other GC and GWS finish below us and lose key players

wait, we will not possibly use our first pick on Viney. Because the pp rule is that we will use our first pick AFTER the club that nominates him. so unless the gold coast or gws say his name (which they wont) because what happens if something happens if GWS say they would pick up Viney with their first pick. then all of a sudden he has a career ending injury (touch wood!)..then they would be forced to. They arent going to leave anythign to chance and they will just pick up whoever they want. Gold Coast the same

I'm normally up with the up and coming players but beyond Viney I'm not really clued up re this years highly touted players. Who are they talking about re top picks next year?

My uncle sold sausage roles at Moorabbin and.....

They didnt and stop making it up. You are being foolish (again).

Why do you keep stone walling on this Rhino...it is astonishing..

Your old schoolteacher ways will not change my opinion on this.

The MFC rolled over and it was a disgrace, as he was the exact player we lack....right now.

And no need to diss the Bro....as i have said before..if you do not believe what i say i do not care.

"Now Be off with you, i am not in a giving mood"

Shakespeare, W.

If we look at the 2001 draft, it makes some interesting reading... but also the changes in recruiting over the last 11 years may make it largely irrelevant imo.

Some would disagree with you and say the 2001 draft was the starting point for many principals that modern day professional draft was built from. We had not long entered the AFL many understood we needed to become more professional - it was the birth of deep analysis with a touch of under handedness.

Just a thought

Don't go down the RR vs WYL path again. Your baiting each other again. Boring. Do others a favour, PM each other.

I doubt he'll go top ten, serious case of o.p, heard he will already be restricted in pace for the rest of his career

Stop being so conservative Rhino, whilst Hammering others...If the MFC had recruited Luke Ball we would have had an elite Midfielder, who is also a brilliant trainer like Chris Judd....My Brother as a Coterie mnember of St.kilda knew Luke & was furious how St.kilda treated him...

All clubs knew his health status, please don't kid yourself....Nobody had the kuhouna's to over step the Filth is far more the point.

Until last Friday night he was a starter in all games....

Yes it is part of the culture issue....We need to play hard ball with the competition if we are ever to lift another cup.

You would never seriously recruit a player that refused to speak with you - you might posture - but when push came to shove you would never do it.

You underestimate the power of the player. We all new where he wanted to go - it was just a matter if you could leverage the situation - which no club was able to do - North came closest by attempting to broker a deal.