IMO opinion there will be no culture change unless the vast majority at the club from the top to bottom who resist change are removed. That includes Admin, players, influential past players, supporters and the board. Those in favor of change or compliant with it will have to be in the overwhelming majority. It only takes a few disgruntled types to sabotage any progress towards a meaningful direction. Will not be easy but has to be revolutionary and ruthless.

Edited April 16, 201213 yr by Jackie

Admit to the mistakes made all around, too much management speak, losing leaders too early, devaluing our olders players, stop sulking, players who have talent but dont use either by being lazy or not committed enough, etc and then insist on people correcting their mistakes (Neeld included).

Those leaders you speak of were done and part of the problem.

Neitz after the 2000 GF in his post game speech said something along the lines of.

"We hope one day we can get back here for another go."

That wasn't what I wanted to hear after being smashed.

I wanted to hear with some conviction how we would be back next year to make amends.

Then , in 2001 with a youthful list and seniors in their prime we finished 11th.

Then had up and down form through seasons winning multiple games on end and losing multiple games on end.

And then be absolutely hopeless again the year after.

Let Wiki refresh your memory.

In 2000 Daniher took Melbourne to the Grand Final, but the Demons were convincingly beaten by a rampaging Essendon. The members had expected a new era of success, but in 2001 it was same old story: Melbourne finished 11th. In 2002, although Melbourne again made the finals, Gutnick was voted out by the members.

In 2003 Melbourne plunged into a new crisis, winning only five games for the year and posting a $1 million loss. President Gabriel Szondy resigned and it seemed that Daniher's tenure as coach was under threat. But, continuing the recent trend, in 2004, Melbourne climbed the ladder again, winning 14 games and leading the competition, albeit for one round only, in Round 18. And although the team lost its remaining four games, the club still made the finals, only to lose narrowly to Essendon.

During the 2004 post-season the Demons tragically lost defender Troy Broadbridge in the Asian tsunami, when he was swept off Phi Phi island in Thailand. He was walking along the beach with his wife Trisha when the tsunami struck. His body was found on 3 January 2005, and brought home. A funeral was held on 20 January 2005 in recognition to the No. 20 guernsey he wore during his playing days. During the 2005 off-season, the whole team travelled to the island in which Broadbridge was killed to build a new school for those struck by the tsunami. The No.20 jumper was then rested for two years.

Melbourne started 2005 strongly, being second after Round 12, however losing momentum by Round 19 appeared unlikely to play finals, then wins against Western Bulldogs, Geelong at Geelong (where Melbourne had not won since the late 1980s), and Essendon in Round 22, placed the club seventh and a finals berth,only to lose the Elimination Final to Geelong by 55 points.

In 2006, after a slow start, Melbourne again finished the season in seventh position. After defeating St Kilda in the first Elimination Final by 18 points the season ended the following week when Fremantle beat the Demons by 28 points. Melbourne's coach Neale Daniher had become the second longest-serving coach of Melbourne, and the longest-surviving in the entire history of the VFL/AFL not to have coached a premiership side.

That is not the actions of a team with good culture and White , Robbo , Bruce , Uze and Macdonald were all apart of it .

Bailey tried to change the culture but in the end the culture was his undoing.

Edited April 16, 201213 yr by Fork 'em

I read somewhere that culture change in large organisations takes around 3 years or so.... Might've been jack Welch quote.

But yeah, you're right. The change is one thing, embedding it is another. Something I think Geelong are effectively doing now.

I think if you look at Geelong, Hawthorn, Essendon, have really embedded their culture since the 80s as a minimum, Collingwood moreso the 90s, Carlton was rocked but rebuilt (around it's supporters and ex players) its not a 3 -5 year thing, it takes a lot of time.

A club's culture is determined by the coach and leadership group. If you have the right characters filling those roles you'll have a club with a first class culture.

I think if you look at Geelong, Hawthorn, Essendon, have really embedded their culture since the 80s as a minimum, Collingwood moreso the 90s, Carlton was rocked but rebuilt (around it's supporters and ex players) its not a 3 -5 year thing, it takes a lot of time.

Don't know about that...

Cultures evolve and change, and quicker than people generally think, imo.

It doesn't take decades, but they can become entrenched in the psyche of supporters over that time.

Drastic change is possible, but you need the right people with the right attitude and buy-in from ALL.

Weed out those who get in the way.

Geelong's culture was formed around the time Costa took over the presidency and Cook came to the club.

Around the time the majority of their guns were drafted.

Just after Leigh Colbert (their captain) demanded to be traded to the Roos.

Hawthorn's was formed when Clarkson came to the club, and with help from Vandenberg.

I think even Jeff had a hand in shaping the culture, as painful as he is.

Essendon's culture went down the toilet with Knights in charge, but has been rebuilt since.

Hird has done a great job, but it gets easier when there is a rush of club legends coming into the club who know what it takes and demand respect.

Collingwood under Malthouse, Buckley and Eddie.

Carlton only recently.

Judd had a strong hand in this.

A club's culture is determined by the coach and leadership group. If you have the right characters filling those roles you'll have a club with a first class culture.

Don't you think the administration also plays a big part in determining the culture?

IMO opinion there will be no culture change unless the vast majority at the club from the top to bottom who resist change are removed. That includes Admin, players, influential past players, supporters and the board. Those in favor of change or compliant with it will have to be in the overwhelming majority. It only takes a few disgruntled types to sabotage any progress towards a meaningful direction. Will not be easy but has to be revolutionary and ruthless.

Getting rid of the old boys club would be a start. These guys never achieved success during their careers but feel they can tell everyone else what they need to do to be successful. For starters we should never go to Lyon for assistance again. He's made his feelings known and if he doesn't want to help the club full-time then thanks but no thanks.

Getting rid of the old boys club would be a start. These guys never achieved success during their careers but feel they can tell everyone else what they need to do to be successful. For starters we should never go to Lyon for assistance again. He's made his feelings known and if he doesn't want to help the club full-time then thanks but no thanks.

Right, so that is..?

Can we get a list?

And also some replacements, please.

Btw - Lyon was asked by Jim Stynes.

He didn't wish to be involved at all.

But it brought us Neeld, Misson and Craig et al - I'd class that move as a success.

Since he has found a FT replacement, so what's the gripe?

Edited April 16, 201213 yr by José Mourinho

Nicely said - we must also trust OUR footy people. Support them above all others. Constructive criticism is great - but negative, media driven trash is toxic - much the media writes is simply a matter of feeding the chooks - they (the chooks) are that desperate for information the believe every word.

Our destiny is in our hands - stop blaming the players, stop blaming the administration, stop blaming recruiting, stop blaming the AFL.

However, actions speak way louder than words. Spread a positive open-minded message, short-term results will tell us nothing more than what daily tweaks we must make.

If we want to beat the best we must think like the best - whoever that may be. Our footy people are our life-blood - invest in them & stop trying to out think them as a lay-person - the media will jump on and start feeding your toxic views or they will start jumping on feeding our positive views.

Its your choice - change or die.

Toxic, what does that, 'Toxic' mean???? Do you mean the culture of failkure since 1964, how many years is that now? Is it 48 years?

I'd say that whats really Toxic is, whats caused that Issue,,,, right there it's staring you all right in the face....

When will we have the souls brave enough to put their balls on the line to help the club past this failing Culture??? Hmmn, who's it to be then, If It Is To Be, then it won't be ME, ME,Me,,, thats the Toxic culture right there. No Balls breeds what? No Balls of course!

Yep, I can see it now, "Our Destiny is in Our Hands", but wait there's 'No More', because there 'aint any,,,,Balls!

A club's culture is determined by the coach and leadership group. If you have the right characters filling those roles you'll have a club with a first class culture.

Garbage!

Which club can stand up to this and get through Unscathed???

The Clubs culture is bred by the Club Itself..

The Best the Coach can hope to achieve is to change the playing culture to one of Contested footy onfield, oh, but off field is where the damage is done... and our past players, all have grown up with this very same culture... They know no better than what has always taken place.

Same old, same old...

I agree. I think Lyon kicked a few pleated suit trouser pants and had an effect, He's known down here for his very down to poo(!) attitude and fearless

ability to get up peoples noses if he doesn't like their work.

The thing that worries me is Neeld just tonight went on record saying the culture's all fine and dandy!!

Right, so that is..?

Can we get a list?

And also some replacements, please.

Btw - Lyon was asked by Jim Stynes.

He didn't wish to be involved at all.

But it brought us Neeld, Misson and Craig et al - I'd class that move as a success.

Since he has found a FT replacement, so what's the gripe?

Yeah I understand that and I also understand this was obviously extenuating circumstances. However I can't help but feel we keep going back to the same guys who have been around the club for 20-30 years to try and fix the culture when they themselves are products of that culture in the first place.

I agree. I think Lyon kicked a few pleated suit trouser pants and had an effect, He's known down here for his very down to poo(!) attitude and fearless

ability to get up peoples noses if he doesn't like their work.

The thing that worries me is Neeld just tonight went on record saying the culture's all fine and dandy!!

I'm not reading anything into any comments by Neeld from now until when he retires. After the first conference and On The Couch appearance I think he's either been told he has to pull his head in or realised it himself. I don't think thats a bad thing as long as these issues are being addressed behind closed doors. You don't air you dirty laundry in public.

I agree. I think Lyon kicked a few pleated suit trouser pants and had an effect, He's known down here for his very down to poo(!) attitude and fearless

ability to get up peoples noses if he doesn't like their work.

The thing that worries me is Neeld just tonight went on record saying the culture's all fine and dandy!!

It's his job to keep the players self esteem up when their confidence is down....

Mine isn't.

I'm not going to stand by again while these issues are so obvious to all who wish to be honest about it, till we can get a good list growing, & flowing well & confident, then forget all about the underlying cancer at our doorstep....

Thats just brushing the dirt under the rug, for someone somewhere else to tidy up... that will not fix this Issue that's haunted us since Smith.

I agree. I think Lyon kicked a few pleated suit trouser pants and had an effect, He's known down here for his very down to poo(!) attitude and fearless

ability to get up peoples noses if he doesn't like their work.

The thing that worries me is Neeld just tonight went on record saying the culture's all fine and dandy!!

So where is Gary now?

Slowly. There's no flick to switch here.

Elite compliance, elite work ethic, elite preperation.

Values, integrity, vision et al.

They might all sound like [censored] terms but when systems are built and put in place around principles like these, you have a paradigm shift which in-turn leads to a change in culture.

Right at the moment, I believe Neeld is challenging the paradigms at MFC and a footy club really isn't any different to a large business when it comes to change. It will [censored] many off, but it will be the making of others.

...and any who are really [censored] off, can [censored] off!

I think you are right - Neeld is just starting the job, (from a long way back), but sadly it won't happen overnight. I would hope by maybe round 6-8 however nobody will be left in any doubt exactly what is expected of them and hopefully things will then start to look up.

I would be very surprised, and disappointed, were there not a significant upside in attitude and dare I use the word "competitiveness" towards the end of the season.

A club's culture is determined by the coach and leadership group. If you have the right characters filling those roles you'll have a club with a first class culture.

You continually miss the point. You have done it again. Congratulations.

Your 'culture' is driven by your senior players.

Ours are not ruthless like Hawthorn's, confident like Collingwood's, or uber-professional and demanding like Geelong's.

Neeld has got to shape the next rung of leaders and he has started that long journey with the LG as it stands now.

Go and get Sewell and Black and get them to mentor our kids and set them on the right path.

There is a way out of the darkness, but you have to pick a point and go.

Your 'culture' is driven by your senior players.

Ours are not ruthless like Hawthorn's, confident like Collingwood's, or uber-professional and demanding like Geelong's.

Neeld has got to shape the next rung of leaders and he has started that long journey with the LG as it stands now.

Go and get Sewell and Black and get them to mentor our kids and set them on the right path.

There is a way out of the darkness, but you have to pick a point and go.

Rubbish.

The clubs culture continually grows from its base, grows bad, or Grows healthy & strong.

The young players who arrive, at one culture time, or another, adopt the culture as their own... it grows thru them, & makes them work hard & be proud or makes them defeatist & self indulgent...

The culture is reflected in all who habitate the place, & by those who appear on weekends. They all learn it. Thats why, as its passed on down, it's So Hard to Shift & Change...

The Culture is all pervading.

It needs to be brought out into the Open, to have some Honesty Bleach it in the Cold Sunlight of Day.

Rubbish.

The clubs culture continually grows from its base, grows bad, or Grows healthy & strong.

The young players who arrive, at one culture time, or another, adopt the culture as their own... it grows thru them, & makes them work hard & be proud or makes them defeatist & self indulgent...

The culture is reflected in all who habitate the place, & by those who appear on weekends. They all learn it. Thats why, as its passed on down, it's So Hard to Shift & Change...

The Culture is all pervading.

It needs to be brought out into the Open, to have some Honesty Bleach it in the Cold Sunlight of Day.

Agree with this , especially the last line.

I wrote last week of the Junction oval legacy. We have never had the facilities to build a base of physical power into the players for strength and speed. We now have the facility and the knowhow. I believe that with the increased power the culture will change. I say it needs at least a period of 5 years to have lifted the demons to a competative level. The culture will change with it.

Rubbish.

The clubs culture continually grows from its base, grows bad, or Grows healthy & strong.

The young players who arrive, at one culture time, or another, adopt the culture as their own... it grows thru them, & makes them work hard & be proud or makes them defeatist & self indulgent...

The culture is reflected in all who habitate the place, & by those who appear on weekends. They all learn it. Thats why, as its passed on down, it's So Hard to Shift & Change...

The Culture is all pervading.

It needs to be brought out into the Open, to have some Honesty Bleach it in the Cold Sunlight of Day.

But who do you think sets the tone? It's the seniors- they set it through their elite compliance, elite work ethic, elite preperation (thanks mcqueen) and the rest of the team follows their lead because at the end of the day it's the players that battle together every weekend. They are the comrades in the trenches- coaches and support staff whilst integral to a degreee do not have the same influence on the players as their peers do.

Culture isn't in the wall paper or in the training facilities, it's in the attitude of the playing group and the seniors are the trend setters, and they instill these traits on the youngsters and so continues the culture circle.

Look at our seniors if you need an example. We have sooks who aren't prepared to put in on the field, like to have a drink on the weekend and crash cars and do runners. Great role models to set a great culture.

The rot always starts at the head, and the playing group is the fish!

Garbage!

Which club can stand up to this and get through Unscathed???

I've listened to premiership players in Glen Archer and Cam Mooney both recently (and independently) say that a club's culture is determined by the club's leadership group. Yet you know more than them and consider this to be "garbage".

Garbage is wasting my time conversing with dolts on internet forums.

You continually miss the point. You have done it again. Congratulations.

You're the second dumbest poster on Demonland.

I wrote last week of the Junction oval legacy. We have never had the facilities to build a base of physical power into the players for strength and speed. We now have the facility and the knowhow. I believe that with the increased power the culture will change. I say it needs at least a period of 5 years to have lifted the demons to a competative level. The culture will change with it.

I agree HR i think AAMI Park will help us enormously, as long as the right training structures are put in place. Teachers.

Culture will be changed with high standards. Those who don't shape up must leave if they cannot adjust.