I want the club to back the coach 100% to change the soft attitude we have on our list. The recruiting over the last 5 years staggers me.

No doubt that he wants to change the soft attitude, but how about a gameplan that's suited to our list or even some match day moves? Surely he's not too busy with the attitude stuff that he can't do something about those other parts of a coaches job?

The list is atrocious and like it or not we are going to have to rebuild again.

FML

No doubt that he wants to change the soft attitude, but how about a gameplan that's suited to our list or even some match day moves? Surely he's not too busy with the attitude stuff that he can't do something about those other parts of a coaches job?

If the list does not apply themselves it won't matter what the gameplan is. We have players on our list who are finished or should never have started.

The best player was a debutant rookie.

If the list does not apply themselves it won't matter what the gameplan is. We have players on our list who are finished or should never have started.

The best player was a debutant rookie.

But isn't it a coaches job to motivate them to apply themselves?

Just seems like to me we get our heads in the clouds about coaches implementing structures, zones, presses etc when what we seem to lack most lately is passion and imagination. Now I know those terms are a bit taboo in modern footy, but after Saturday they are the first that come to mind. Why not, when we're 7 goals down in the last quarter, put Clark in the ruck, Frawley at full forward, and Green at full back? Try something different. We keep hammering away at the same players in the same positions and expect something to happen, make something happen coach!

The most common criticism I've heard about Saturday arvo is that we were totally predictable, so if we're going to stick to that gameplan why not change it up with the players positions? I always hear the comments saying that the learning is valuable etc, but I say "what learning?! Learning how to lose?! If the players don't get anything different how can they learn?"

I guess I just don't understand why, when we're getting belted, significant changes aren't made or at least tried during the game.

Neeld can talk tough all he wants, but in my books HE is on notice as much as the players are now.

What sort of a coach is "not surprised" when his team puts in a weak effort?! If he saw it coming isn't it his job to DO SOMETHING.

Do people seriously think Rivers and Garland can avoid blame every week?

Sorry but there is always space betwwen them and their direct opponent .

And they are always behind .

On reflection, this is the lowest I have ever felt as a Melbourne supporter, and reading this thread goes to show that I'm not alone.

The crap this club keeps on dishing out, is killing it.

After all the hard work of people like Jim, to reunite and define and make us viable again, the players are doing their absolute best to destroy it all with pissweak garbage, soulless performances.

If they felt how we feel about this club, if they were as proud of the jumper as we are, they would never perform with such utter disrespect to everything this club used to stand for. They have destroyed the optimism, the pride, the joy I used to get from going to the footy.

Maybe it's just a bunch of cliches, bleeding for the jumper and all that, but I've long stopped hoping for real success. All I want is to see a bunch of players who actually care, and to stop feeling so utterly hopeless and so incredibly ashamed to be a Melbourne supporter.

The last time I felt proud leaving a match, was when we came back to beat Brisbane and Aussie kicked the sealer. Ironically, the same opponent today ripped us to shreds and made me think that maybe I'll never feel this way again.

On days like that I'd be happy to see an all out brawl with fists and reports .

But our guys are not even up for that .

What a soft bunch of girls they are .

I really am over last years leaders-were they on strike?

Rivers ,Garland ,Green ,Moloney ,Davey and Jamar dont want it anymore-they just want our money .

Batram ,McKenzie ,Bail ,MacDonald aren't good enough and never will be .

I had really low expectations going into this season, but as always you secretly hope you may encounter something special like the Eagles did last year. However, my expectations were sadly met yesterday.

My fears of having the worst midfield in the league, players in our backline unable to hit a target and having no crumbers for our bomb it high and long gameplan, all came to fruition yesterday.

As alaways we got smashed in th centre. How many times did the likes of Black and co. actually clear the ball out of the centre while on the move. I watch other teams do this also. We stand stationary and get tackled immediately. We very rarely get any clean and quick clearances from stoppages and I have been banging on about it for a while now. Is it coaching, or do we just have a poor onball brigade? The latter is my guess.

Our backline is filled with players who have questionable disposal skills. Bartram, Rivers and Macdonald to my mind are the worst, yet Frawley, Garland and even Grimes are not elite standard either. I think the sooner we can get the likes of Strauss and Tappy in the better.

I find our gameplan of bomb it long down the line or forward completely uninspiring and predictable. Even so, if we are to go with this plan, why not have at least 2 crumbers at the feet of our forwards instead of 2 or 3 guys flying and the ball spilling and being cleared at the back with ease. I'd like to see Bennell tried as a small forward again, because I think he played some pretty good footy and there and was a multiple goal kicker in games.

Lastly, one play I saw in the first half just outside the 50 at the Punt rd. end summed up the day for me. The ball in dispute between Blease and a Lions player, and instead of Blease manicly diving in low and head first in desperation to win the ball. he lets the Lions player get there first and then tries to tackle him. It probaly happened plenty of times yesterday, so it may be unfair to single Blease out, but after watching GWS last week and the way they threw themselves at the contest, Ithere are absolutely no excuses for our players to not do the same.

The problem is the midfield. Games have always been won, or lost in the midfield and this is what killed us yesterday. Supporters can laugh at Brisbane's list, but the facts are that Black, Rich, Redden and Rockliff (part midfield/part forward) are better than anything we currently have in the midfield and they killed us at the stoppages. It doesn't help that Jamar is Hudson's [censored].

The game-plan isn't the issue, the talent, or lack thereof, in the midfield is the issue. The players will learn the game-plan and for a while in the first half it was working. Run and spread, and hitting up shorter targets will come. *We fumbled appallingly yesterday. It was like a disease had spread through the entire side (except for Watts). Clean ball handling comes when you're confident in what you're going to do with the footy once you get it. When you second guess yourself, or don't know what you're going to do with it leads to fumbling. Geelong players know what to do as soon as skin touches leather, they're confident in all of their teammates, which is why they're able to flick it around and they still fumble far less. And of course class also plays a part, but not entirely.

The reason I'm not as distressed as some is because I'm certain that 2 or 3 gun mids will make a massive difference to our fortunes. It is extraordinary how 2 of 3 players can make such a difference to a side, any side. Gun players make others around them better and the flow on and confidence is infectious. Yes, yes, I know we don't have these gun mids. Yes, I know we'll be crap this year, and yes even Viney and a couple of mids at pick 10 in this year's super-draft won't solve our problems over night, but it can happen relatively quickly and the light I see at the end of the tunnel isn't a train.

The defence and forward-lines aren't the problem, the game-plan isn't the problem, and midfields can be fixed quicker than those other areas. Being patient is a pre-requisite to follow Melbourne and it can test your resolve, but things aren't as bad as they seem.

* Elequently explained to me over a beer by fellow poster and former Subi player Tonytea. I'm certain he's right.

I had really low expectations going into this season, but as always you secretly hope you may encounter something special like the Eagles did last year. However, my expectations were sadly met yesterday.

My fears of having the worst midfield in the league, players in our backline unable to hit a target and having no crumbers for our bomb it high and long gameplan, all came to fruition yesterday.

As alaways we got smashed in th centre. How many times did the likes of Black and co. actually clear the ball out of the centre while on the move. I watch other teams do this also. We stand stationary and get tackled immediately. We very rarely get any clean and quick clearances from stoppages and I have been banging on about it for a while now. Is it coaching, or do we just have a poor onball brigade? The latter is my guess.

Our backline is filled with players who have questionable disposal skills. Bartram, Rivers and Macdonald to my mind are the worst, yet Frawley, Garland and even Grimes are not elite standard either. I think the sooner we can get the likes of Strauss and Tappy in the better.

I find our gameplan of bomb it long down the line or forward completely uninspiring and predictable. Even so, if we are to go with this plan, why not have at least 2 crumbers at the feet of our forwards instead of 2 or 3 guys flying and the ball spilling and being cleared at the back with ease. I'd like to see Bennell tried as a small forward again, because I think he played some pretty good footy and there and was a multiple goal kicker in games.

Lastly, one play I saw in the first half just outside the 50 at the Punt rd. end summed up the day for me. The ball in dispute between Blease and a Lions player, and instead of Blease manicly diving in low and head first in desperation to win the ball. he lets the Lions player get there first and then tries to tackle him. It probaly happened plenty of times yesterday, so it may be unfair to single Blease out, but after watching GWS last week and the way they threw themselves at the contest, Ithere are absolutely no excuses for our players to not do the same.

I agree with much of that, but as you say, Strauss and Tapscott are ready made and will go a long way to solving defence issues (if they put Tapscott back there), and we desperately need a good forward-line crumber. Blease is a disappointment.

The problem is the midfield. Games have always been won, or lost in the midfield and this is what killed us yesterday. Supporters can laugh at Brisbane's list, but the facts are that Black, Rich, Redden and Rockliff (part midfield/part forward) are better than anything we currently have in the midfield and they killed us at the stoppages. It doesn't help that Jamar is Hudson's [censored].

The game-plan isn't the issue, the talent, or lack thereof, in the midfield is the issue. The players will learn the game-plan and for a while in the first half it was working. Run and spread, and hitting up shorter targets will come. *We fumbled appallingly yesterday. It was like a disease had spread through the entire side (except for Watts). Clean ball handling comes when you're confident in what you're going to do with the footy once you get it. When you second guess yourself, or don't know what you're going to do with it leads to fumbling. Geelong players know what to do as soon as skin touches leather, they're confident in all of their teammates, which is why they're able to flick it around and they still fumble far less. And of course class also plays a part, but not entirely.

The reason I'm not as distressed as some is because I'm certain that 2 or 3 gun mids will make a massive difference to our fortunes. It is extraordinary how 2 of 3 players can make such a difference to a side, any side. Gun players make others around them better and the flow on and confidence is infectious. Yes, yes, I know we don't have these gun mids. Yes, I know we'll be crap this year, and yes even Viney and a couple of mids at pick 10 in this year's super-draft won't solve our problems over night, but it can happen relatively quickly and the light I see at the end of the tunnel isn't a train.

The defence and forward-lines aren't the problem, the game-plan isn't the problem, and midfields can be fixed quicker than those other areas. Being patient is a pre-requisite to follow Melbourne and it can test your resolve, but things aren't as bad as they seem.

* Elequently explained to me over a beer by fellow poster and former Subi player Tonytea. I'm certain he's right.

I agree fully with your post :-)

I do wonder if the current mids can get to the point where they want the ball first. How influential was Neeld in Collingwood's midfield rise? We aren't asking a lot for our mids to try to get the ball first, then we can work on what to do with it once we have it, but to at least break even with the opposition mids would be a plus

It isn't only the mids.

Our backs should be able to handle pressure- they have plenty of experience .

Simon Black continues to amaze me - what a player......

DItto...

3 time premership player, captian, brownlow medalist, norm smith winner, 3 time Lions player of the year, all Australian player and soon to be in 3 games a 300 game player - what a bloke

HOWEVER im happy he gave Manger a bit of a bump and allowed Magner to be the 20th person in AFL history for their first 2 kicks in their first AFL game to be goals!!!

I think people are being a bit melodramatic i think we played great - april fools

A couple of positives to look at:

1) Magner - amazing. Talk about a player. When pressure and agressiveness dropped he really picked up. Also i dont think i need to harp on but his story alone is pretty amazing, Im really looking forward to him this season

2) The Jacks - looking at them from the 1st to 2nd quater they looked alot more confident, playing well, and putting their bodies on the line alot more

3) Tyne and Clark - good first games, especially clarke with that bs umpiring managed to reproduce a great snap and much needed goal under pressure

4) Martin - although he was pretty much tagged 2 on 1 since the 1st quater he still played well and used his body better than last season

The bad parts...:

1) Frawley - needs to be alot more aware of other dees when going into marks. A couple of times i noticed we had a player in front who was handling the ball and close to marking only to have Chip fly in from behind with no hope and knock the dees player out of contest and onto the ground with a turnaround.

2) Communication: ^^^ also generally pretty pathetic - we put alot more pressure on ourselves with no leading or talking and why the hell was Nathan Jones left to ruck a boundary throw in at one point?!?!?!?

3) Clearances - already been covered

4) Basic ball handling and tagging skills - too many sitters dropped, too many opposition players free

5) Umpiring - ive never resported to ever EVER putting umpiring as a factor but they need to lift their game too. 4 bounce recalls (on a fine ground), the whole Clarke double take goal, 2 bs lions 'marks', a couple of holding the ball cases gone unnoticed and it was all fairly one sided.

All around just crap footy.

Lets hope we can fix this before next round against West Coast :S

In other news, I'm now watching my recording of the game on FOX FOOTY and it appears to not be in HD? Not even upscaled SD? Has anyone else mentioned or noticed this? Is it just happening to me? I recorded it remotely with my I-Phone through the Foxtel App, can't imagine why that would affect it though.

Ha I have done this before also. You would have just clicked sport and chosen the normal fox footy Chanel.

You have to select HD Channels rite down the bottom the select fox footy HD.

My comments are not necessarily confined to yesterdays debacle. I have not been able to get excited about this year. Last year we had a number of new faces that we could anticipate seeing, which coupled with some of the previous seasons performances instilled some belief we would improve. This year, despite some new faces I couldn't see where the big improvement was coming from.

The names usually bandied about have been tried and found wanting. Where is the top player we need to come through and show leadership THIS year. I don't see one. Jamar might win the tap, but the opposition continually take the ball away, Moloney fights hard to get the ball (usually) but then usually pumps it long to a contest, Jones tries hard but lacks the dynamism (?) that is required for him to go to the next level and McKenzie is a defensive midfielder also lacking in the attacking dynamism required. That's our top midfied (arguably Magner has come into this group). When we frequently win taps but the opposition get the clearance, we are not going kick big scores.

As for yesterday..I think it in obvious to Neeld that we have a number of lazy players. I mentioned to my brother during one passage of play that Davey was just jogging after his opponent through the middle, trailing by 20 metres. Only when that player received the ball did davey put in some pace but by that time it was too late...another Brisbane goal. Our great hope Bate in the last quarter....one of the first things he did was fall over his own feet in the Lions forward pocket and virtually gift them a goal. Laughable and typical of most players yesterday.

The team needs to stop the meaningless '...as a group we are aware that effort wasn't good enough..blah blah' carp that is becoming too frequent with this group and actually follow up these hollow words with actions. It shouldn't need jimmy, it shouldn't need any extra reason, they should just go out each week and put in 100% all of the time or go home.

The football world laughs at them and they don't seem to mind. If they can't be arsed to put in an effort then just move to club to Tasmania, and I'll find something enjoyable to do on my winter saturdays in future. The only problem is, my son is becoming an avid fan of the dees at the time the players are killing my passion...

I am very concerned about how the hell are we supposed to be compete against Richmond,Doggies,Saints,Bombers and North if we can't compete with Brisbane at the G Round 1? The same Old feeling I get when I leave the G is something that I am getting used to now and it Shits me up the wall.

We looked disorganised at the cleareances. They always had free players. They used where their free man wuold be flexibly. Given the clean hands at the contest it looked like they had 5 more players out there. WE used the ball so badly - with poor skill and made poor decisions. I think game plan. We bombed long at every opportunity. That has got to be instruction. I wish the club would repalce macdonland and bartrum so they never play again. Put it in davis and bennell or strauss. Play grimes in the guts. Play trengove forward and rotating up. Blease to casey unitl he learns to put in and develops a tank.

Neeld was furious that we lost the tap outs and got well beaten at the clearances, JT says essentially the same thing on the MFC website. Makes it much more difficult to execute a plan in these circumstances.

Not surprised at the typical Demonland meltdown - it's nearly as bad now as when we lost to West Coast last year.

Agree with BRFE's sentiments. It's not all doom and gloom. Our backline is solid and a forward line that could potentially have Jurrah, Petterd, Howe, Watts, Clark and Martin playing together is a real weapon.

However Jamar, Davey, Green are not cutting it, and our midfield is truly god-awful. If your midfield's this bad, it makes your entire team look woeful. Not very excited about Bate, Blease, Bartram, McKenzie and MacDonald being in the one team. That's a lot of one-trick ponies (although I'm not sure of Bate's trick yet).

IMO we lost because we didn't work anywhere near hard enough. In the third quarter, many players became spectators; even rabbits caught in the spotlight. Players did not gut run to give their mates a target, or to cover an opponent, or help out. I watched Garland not run to assist on at least one occasion FHS.

This is where I thought Bartram and Tynan (and Trengove and Jones to some extent) where really good. When Frawley looked up for an option, too often there was none if Tynan or Bartram didn't make the effort. And the 3rd qtr kickouts descended into a Bailey type rabble.

Yes, we got smashed in the clearances, but that doesn't mean you stop running. We are supposedly fitter than ever; no point if the players are not prepared to run and work hard. Neeld is on the record as saying that each player has a role to play; if they can't or won't, then back to the VFL.

Interesting week ahead.

listening to greeny on the sunday footy show actually helped explained quite a lot.

Bombing it down the line and letting someone contest the ball is the easy way out. There is no responsibility involved when you just kick it to the contest down the line. It should be the last resort, not the first. Teething problems.

Next week i'm positive we will take more risks and look to the centre and move the ball a hell of a lot faster and more effectively.

This will take a bit more pressure off the midfield and get greeny and davey more involved in the game.

I am very concerned about how the hell are we supposed to be compete against Richmond,Doggies,Saints,Bombers and North if we can't compete with Brisbane at the G Round 1? The same Old feeling I get when I leave the G is something that I am getting used to now and it Shits me up the wall.

Yes in our last few games of the season proper we have lost to Richmond , Port & now Brisbane , why have these sides gone past us? Our improvement seems to have plateud with the smashing of the Swans late in 2010, now it seems we are going backwards

listening to greeny on the sunday footy show actually helped explained quite a lot.

Bombing it down the line and letting someone contest the ball is the easy way out. There is no responsibility involved when you just kick it to the contest down the line. It should be the last resort, not the first. Teething problems.

Next week i'm positive we will take more risks and look to the centre and move the ball a hell of a lot faster and more effectively.

This will take a bit more pressure off the midfield and get greeny and davey more involved in the game.

Talk about positive spin. Won't matter a rat's arse if the players don't work hard: win the ball if you are an inside player; gut run to exhaustion if you are an outside player.

Ha I have done this before also. You would have just clicked sport and chosen the normal fox footy Chanel.

You have to select HD Channels rite down the bottom the select fox footy HD.

Cheers, you are right.... It was doing my head in, I may have been a little short with the Foxtel Customer service chick but serves them right for leaving me on hold for 15 minutes.

I was feeling pretty flat after that game and even flatter watching the replay in dodgy quality.

I smell a new 'rebuild' coming on for the Dees.

Yes in our last few games of the season proper we have lost to Richmond , Port & now Brisbane , why have these sides gone past us? Our improvement seems to have plateud with the smashing of the Swans late in 2010, now it seems we are going backwards

Oh god I remember that game. I couldn't help but think how good will we be in 2012? I didn't expect this. You are right I can't comprehend how/why teams have leapfrogged us.

Right - now that I have a keyboard. Apologies if this doubles up.

- We missed Sellar. We do have a good defence, but we get stretched by talls - Leuenberger forward showed us this when Rivers was forced to try to take him. Sellar would have neutered his influence nicely. I'm expecting him to play against West Coast and be thrown onto Lynch.

- How Grimes was allowed to be neutralised so dramatically stuns me. Neeld did miss this one - should have swapped Grimes' opponent and rotated him through the middle.

- On the outside mid problem, we have a bloke who is so far outside half the time I wonder if he's even on the MCG when he's playing...do we dare suggest Morton have a crack?

- Regarding Neeld's lack of a Plan B - perhaps he wants to make sure the players get Plan A right, and do that before giving them a go with any type of Plan B?