It's a big statement but gee he's 29 so will be 32 in final year of contract. Cam Bruce and Junior say hi......

well hes actually 28... 29 later this year. Hes a ruck.. they invariably last a bit longer and are still often near their prime in latter years. They are a different beast to the general player, often the reason its hard to find a good one.

Re Cam and Junior..yeah hi back.. Hope life in obscurity is treating them well.

If only he'd resigned instead of re-signed!

I can't help feeling we'e making the same error with Jamar as we made with White, ending up losing Jolly and Simmonds.

In Spencer,Gawn and Martin, we have promising talls. We'll lose them if they don't get senior experience. We have the perfect opportunity this season.

By the way, did anyone else see the great bump by Spencer on Bateman(something I've wanted for years!) in the Box Hill game ?For once we have a really tall guy who likes to throw his weight around. He just needs to keep on learning the art of ruck play. It's not in Jamar's interests to teach him. He's building his body up andMUST be kept!

What would you have done - offered him one year and lost him to FA at the end of the season? Martin's rucking is uninspiring and hos forward work is a disappointment, Gawn has had 2 knee recos and Spencer has just come back from one. There is a risk that Spencer may move on but I prefer that than having him #1 starter in R1 2013.

Re Cam and Junior..yeah hi back.. Hope life in obscurity is treating them well.

No way can you say that Cam's having a life in obscurity.

You can tune in to ABC1 at 1pm today and see him on national television playing in the centre for the Box Hill Hawks. Cam's follicly challenged these days so his next step will be a starring role in an Ashley & Martin commercial.

Anyway, I'm sure he's in a good place.

Sorry ...my bad....fancy thinking the Box Hill oval was anything other than front page. yeah yeah

If only he'd resigned instead of re-signed!

I can't help feeling we'e making the same error with Jamar as we made with White, ending up losing Jolly and Simmonds.

In Spencer,Gawn and Martin, we have promising talls. We'll lose them if they don't get senior experience. We have the perfect opportunity this season.

By the way, did anyone else see the great bump by Spencer on Bateman(something I've wanted for years!) in the Box Hill game ?For once we have a really tall guy who likes to throw his weight around. He just needs to keep on learning the art of ruck play. It's not in Jamar's interests to teach him. He's building his body up andMUST be kept!

Going into 2013 with Spencer, Martin and a massive question mark over Gawn's future was never an option.

Spencer has simply not shown enough to warrant a starting ruck position at AFL level and Martin is the "The Riddler" ... question marks all over him.

He's a quality first ruck Jamar, in good nick physically and will provide three seasons of decent service.

Edited June 9, 201213 yr by Range Rover

apol...obscurity now spreads to Point Gelibrand. Has Cheney for company too.

we return to normal prgramming.. The Mark Jamar Story!!....in Prime Time !!

Old and RR have already nailed it, but I guess the difference between this and the White/Jolly situation that even at the time it was obvious Jolly was quality, whereas there's all sorts of doubt over Spencer, Martin and Gawn, all for differing reasons. Letting one of the comp's best ruckmen go in the hopes that one of the three NQR ruckmen might overcome their issues is dangerous to the point of recklessness.

And for what it's worth I believe we could've kept both Jolly and White if Neale had been more flexible in the way he operated them when he had both at his disposal. Keeping Jamar doesn't have to mean robbing Spencer/Martin/Gawn of development opportunities - Jamar himself developed just fine under White. There's room there for them if they're good enough (or fit enough in Gawn's case).

Ruck men generally get better with age stated earlier, clearly look at likes of our friend Jolly , Ottens, Maric,Cox, even Mumfords getting another look at a new club, Jamar can go the nxt 3 yrs NO QUESTION Fair call bout Jnr Mac but onballers simply get run into the ground by bout 28 IMO

quoting Range Rover

"He's a quality first ruck Jamar, in good nick physically and will provide three seasons of decent service."

-_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

How I hope and pray you're right and I'm wrong. I fear they've re-signed him in haste after one decent game this year against the Bombers, and one good year in ten at the Club.

Deep down I feel we're trapped with a slow, too short ruckman who can't kick, can't mark, and has less than 20% efficiency with his many hit outs.

It often happens that low profile rucks show their quality when given the chance(eg Mumford, Maric, Bell-Chambers,Jacobs....and others. ) I reckon it could happen with Spencer and/or Gawn if given the chance. Martin himself looked the goods while Jamar was out injured last season...a really good example.With Martin as back-up, we could have risked relying on the dubious long term fitness of Gawn, and to a lesser extent, Spencer(who hasn't had a knee reconstruction, to my knowledge)

However, we've committed ourselves, and I do like the principle of the Club rewarding long term servants . So I'll just hope for the best(and get off his case!)

Edited June 9, 201213 yr by JUMPING JACK CLENNETT

quoting Range Rover

"He's a quality first ruck Jamar, in good nick physically and will provide three seasons of decent service."

-_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

How I hope and pray you're right and I'm wrong. I fear they've re-signed him in haste after one decent game this year against the Bombers, and one good year in ten at the Club.

Deep down I feel we're trapped with a slow, too short ruckman who can't kick, can't mark, and has less than 20% efficiency with his many hit outs.

It often happens that low profile rucks show their quality when given the chance(eg Mumford, Maric, Bell-Chambers,Jacobs....and others. ) I reckon it could happen with Spencer and/or Gawn if given the chance. Martin himself looked the goods while Jamar was out injured last season...a really good example.With Martin as back-up, we could have risked relying on the dubious long term fitness of Gawn, and to a lesser extent, Spencer(who hasn't had a knee reconstruction, to my knowledge)

However, we've committed ourselves, and I do like the principle of the Club rewarding long term servants . So I'll just hope for the best(and get off his case!)

Spencer was out for the last 3/4 of last season with a knee. He did it the same week Jamar picked up his injury against the Crows.

The points people have made above about Martin, Gawn & Spence are valid. Jamar's an All Australian Ruckman and is a war horse who can go all day if we need him to. Also he's a long term player who worked his way off the rookie list, if we throw a player like that away, what does it say to the other players when we're tying to build this really strong culture.

For what it's worth, I think both Gawn and Martin can be really good players. Martin showed yesterday at Casey that he's got the tools to play that 2nd ruck/forward role, which means if he can put it together at AFL level, he wont be robbed of AFL games. And I see Gawn as our long term prelacement for Jamar. Let's just hope he can stay injury free. Another 2-3 years of development at VFL level will only be good for him. By the time Jamar's contract is up, it means we'd have a 24 year old monster ready to go.

Spencer I'm not as sure about. I made the point in another thread I wouldn't be suprised if he found himself at St. Kilda next year. And the point you made about Jacobs, Mumford, Maric & Bellchambers. I'd argue they'd all shown more in their brief AFL appearances then Spencer has in his before they took the no 1 title.

I fear they've re-signed him in haste after one decent game this year against the Bombers, and one good year in ten at the Club.

There's no way that is the case. These things take ages to prepare, I highly doubt TH and co just whipped a new contract together in the day or two after the game and said "here Mark, sign this".

There's no way that is the case. These things take ages to prepare, I highly doubt TH and co just whipped a new contract together in the day or two after the game and said "here Mark, sign this".

So that means they were working hard to re-sign him knowing that he'd played exactly zero good games this year. That's hardly better.

Edited June 11, 201213 yr by Chook

So that means they were working hard to re-sign him knowing that he'd played exactly zero good games this year. That's hardly better.

I'd dispute the fact that he's played zero good games this year. His use around the ground has been sub-par compared to what we've come to expect, but he's #1 in the comp for hitouts - surely this is a pretty crucial KPI for a ruckman.

Even if you believe he is in poor form, ideally contract terms should be about the long term value to the club, not short term form. I.e. that the a guy might happen to be in a (potentially) short term form slump shouldn't shape his contract for the next 2+ years.

Russian didn't take one grab on the weekend.

Doing well in thehitouts but very ordinary around the ground this year.

He was a liability yesterday. Couldnt work Jolly out and Jolly just outsmarted him in every facet of the game.

He has stunk the house down all year, its like having one less player.

He also got 0 marks v Carlton.

The joke amongst my group of supporters who I go with every week is that he takes 1 token mark every game (usually from kick outs). If he takes 2, like last week, he's had a good game. If he has zero, it's been a bad game, e.g. yesterday.

I like him, as a player and a bloke, but he is a bit of a dinosaur. Needs reinvention.

Surely a stef Martin would do better at least in the marking around the ground and kicking goals.

The problem we are having is poor form from key players, like Jamar, Moloney,Trengove etc..

Others such as Jones, Grimes ,Watts,Howe,Clark are trying their guts out.

Why wouldn't you give the out of form blokes a spell in the twos?

It takes him an eternity to activate his brain and that makes it hard for him to have an impact.

He isn't even a great ruckman, his taps are not even to our players advantage.

It astounds me that some supporters still claim he's a great pack marker. For a bloke of his body mass, he's pathetic. That said, he usually has two or three defenders on him, as our obvious 'clear the defensive fifty arc by kicking it to Jamar' so often attests.

It's highly likely that in a year or two...Gawn could be our number one ruck with Martin as support...

Whe does that leave Jamar who just signed for 3 years?

He cost us two goals in the first quarter, and possibly one of our own when he dropped a mark against Wellingham. He left Jolly to spoil then didn't kill the contest and Jolly left on his own kicked an easy goal, he also skirted a pack 10 metres out from the Pies goal allowing them to get the ball and another easy goal (this may have been the one that "hit the post").

Look what Maric has done for the Tigers...

Jamar really has to step up very soon, or he could be spending his three years in the magoos!

In 2010 - his best year - he averaged 3 marks. This year so far he's averaged 2. Not taking many marks is hardly a new thing.

The bigger worry is getting the ball in general. Possessions wise he's averaging 4 compared to 12 in 2010. He's back in Donuts territory again.