Stefan Matin is supposed to be the smartest footballer in the business. So what's he doing playing for us? In any clued up side he would be pushing for star status. Needs to be given more responsibility given Jamar's current lethargy.

Please go and buy some coffee for yourself and Disco .Have plenty of water ,some Panadol and a good sleep .You will feel better when the drugs wear off next Thursday.

If you watch him play, he is a train wreck - thinks he's midfielder and tries to carry and run, ultimately creating a turn over. Can't mark, kicking is terrible and decision making even worse.

Setanta O'hAilpin clone.

I think Disco was joking, I'm not.

I think Stef is doing fine.

Good second ruck, move on.

Other issues to fix.

I think Stef is doing fine.

Good second ruck, move on.

Other issues to fix.

Player list is an issue, don't you think?

A better leap and better "tap to advantage" ruckman. Might not get as many taps but i believe his tap "to advantage" percentage would exceed those of Jamar since the big Rush's return from injury last year. I could be wrong here though as i haven't checked the stats lol. Agree that skills are also better down below than Jamar and has more agility and speed when he receives or gets the ball through traffic in the middle.

Slowly blood Stef as the main man, and Jamar as 2nd string until Fitzy/Gawn are ready over next few years. Rush seems to have lost the little leap he once had prior to injury and half a yard (not that he was ever super quick i realise...but he's now super slow). Gets plenty of tap outs but not enough (percentage wise) to advantage to make a decent impact anymore. Opposing ruckmen (on the weekend) got less tap outs but more to advantage than Rush did. Still a serviceable ruckman but Stef the go to from here for mine.

A better leap and better "tap to advantage" ruckman. Might not get as many taps but i believe his tap "to advantage" percentage would exceed those of Jamar since the big Rush's return from injury last year. I could be wrong here though as i haven't checked the stats lol. Agree that skills are also better down below than Jamar and has more agility and speed when he receives or gets the ball through traffic in the middle.

Jamar as 2nd string until Fitzy/Gawn are ready. Lost the little leap he once had prior to injury and half a yard (not that he was ever super quick i realise...but he's now super slow). Isn't the same player now IMO. Plenty of tap outs on the weekend but few to advantage. Opposing ruckmen got less tap outs but more to advantage than Rush did. Still a serviceable ruckman but Stef the better of the two from here for mine.

If we're to have any chance of winning the center clearances and a few matches (other than those against the two new entrants) then Martin needs to be moved in here as the main man....pronto.

Mitch is better placed at CHF and will be more damaging/effective there. Plus we have a number of options to rotate around him at HF and a few options to cover FF as well. Martin not needed here other than maybe in the forward pocket when resting for short stints or maybe to CHF when resting Mitch.

I agree with this. He looked best against the Lions when he went up the field a bit to get some of the ball. Perhaps put the Russian at FF because he's a pretty good contested mark, Clark at CHF and Martin in the ruck. It's at least worth a try, because Saturday's set-up sure as hell didn't work.

Player list is an issue, don't you think?

Yes, because that is exactly what I said wasn't an issue, didn't I?

Let's have a look at it should we?

How important is the second ruck position?

I would say it can be important if we are pushing for the top 4.

How good is Stef to other second rucks?

I would say is average to above average.

Stef offers incredible versatility few others have.

He certainly could be useful down back against the tall WCE forwards, but that said if the match ups change then he can move to the midfield or forward, as well as doing a lot of the ruck work.

Most gorilla minding defenders are pretty unidimensional - Stef is nt.

And as far as Clark is concerned, his "failure" as a FF at the weekend was in big part due to the incredibly poor delivery: sure he is expected to take a grab, but nobody can if the ball is bombed over their head and never to the lead. Dunstall, Lloyd, Lockett would struggle if offered the delivery our mids offer. that said, IMO he could be better utilised at "CHF", whatever that is nowadays.

Please do not post again until you are sober .

At the moment Martins best postion is ruck and nowhere else. Jamar is number one ruck. They don't appear to work well together because they both can't play other positions.

In simple terms you are blinded by Martins form when he covered for Jamar last year.

Neeld needs to make a tough call this week and roll the dice.

Yes, because that is exactly what I said wasn't an issue, didn't I?

Let's have a look at it should we?

How important is the second ruck position?

I would say it can be important if we are pushing for the top 4.

How good is Stef to other second rucks?

I would say is average to above average.

As far as 2nd rucks go, fail, fail, fail. If he's only there to tap, (or thump) the ball if he gets a good run at it, he'll be fine.

The other skills of footy he doesn't do well.

If Neeld is after a decent 2nd ruckman then Clark needs to go in the middle.

Stef offers incredible versatility few others have.

In my eyes David Hale offers more. He kicks goals and rucks. Stef is just a ruckman.

It's Rnd 1 WYL, with all new coaches, who have brought all new gamestyles and training ways. And we've pushed a very hard broom thru the place. Not to mention the emotional conflicts that need settling.

IMO this will take anywhere up to 10 weeks to get a grip across all the players, re the gamestyle and new playing partners/coaches.

I think you maybe a little under on your 10 weeks.

In my eyes David Hale offers more. He kicks goals and rucks. Stef is just a ruckman.

One glaring difference - Hale is at Hawthorn - Stef would look great at Hawthorn

How important is the second ruck position?

He needs to be able to mark in the forward line, that's integral to his role as "2nd ruck". He can't do it now but the encouraging thing is that he gets to the contest which is more than half the battle.

I think Stef , for one IS coming along quite well with his marking . Showed a pretty good pair of mits on theweekend when many were dropping anything and everything. He seems noticably bigger ( stronger) this year. Be interesting to watch in 2012

Stef's role is the role Leigh Brown played at Collingwood over the last few seasons. 2nd ruck who plays forward, and the advantage with Stef is we know if need be he can go back also. Brown didn't get in the way of Dawes & Cloke so I'm sure once the structures are right Matin wont get in the way of Clark, Watts, Howe etc.

Martin's a vital cog in this team and 2nd ruck is his position, once Jamar's gone Martin will stay second ruck to either Gawn or Spencer I have no doubt. The issue of whether Clark is better at CHF or FF doesn't really have anything to do with Stef IMO.

Stef's role is the role Leigh Brown played at Collingwood over the last few seasons. 2nd ruck who plays forward, and the advantage with Stef is we know if need be he can go back also. Brown didn't get in the way of Dawes & Cloke so I'm sure once the structures are right Matin wont get in the way of Clark, Watts, Howe etc.

Martin's a vital cog in this team and 2nd ruck is his position, once Jamar's gone Martin will stay second ruck to either Gawn or Spencer I have no doubt. The issue of whether Clark is better at CHF or FF doesn't really have anything to do with Stef IMO.

Okay, well let's give him some coaching and make his role clear to him - he thinks he's a rover, a midfielder, a full forward etc etc

Press release from the "Melbourne Football Club"

The club today would like to acknowledge that senior

player Stefan Martin was witnessed to smile

and laugh at training yesterday.

Chief Executive Cameron Schwab today announced "We take these

indiscretions very seriously, and can announce that player Martin has been

stood down from the non-leadership group indefinitely, and

will be required to undertake 34 hours of community service

manning a gate at Parliament Station, considered the bench-mark

for people who show no joy in their work".

Martin said in a prepared statement "I understand my actions were

wrong, and if I had my time again would do things differently. I

today humbly apologise to my teammates, coaching staff, family members

and most importantly the fans. My attempts to show a glimpse of enjoyment

from this season were insensitive and may have offended many people"

Schwab added "At the Melbourne Football Club, we are striving for a

professional environment at all times, and we are extremely disappointed

in Stefans actions. We will not tolerate such actions, and have made our

stance on this quite clear in past. Last offseason player Addam Maric, who

had previously had an exemplary record of discipline in not showing emotion,

suffered a rare lapse, smiled, and we could no longer continue to ignore his

disruptive influence. Addam unfortunately as a result is no longer at our

football club."

In other news, the club also today announced the termination of its dental sponsor,

The Smile Clinic, due to a conflict in core values. We thank the company for their previous

valued support as a Bronze Sponsor.

Well done Demon Dave. Good post.

You might also include players smiling at the end of a drubbing when they shake their opponents hand.

Stef Martin could request a trade at the end of this year...I think we can afford to let him go and turn this into a win-win.

With Jamar signing another three year deal and gawn coming back from another knee reconstruction...we also have Mitch Clark and Sellar capable of rucking.

Spencer is an unknown.

Stef Martin could request a trade at the end of this year...I think we can afford to let him go and turn this into a win-win.

With Jamar signing another three year deal and gawn coming back from another knee reconstruction...we also have Mitch Clark and Sellar capable of rucking.

Spencer is an unknown.

Ivan Maric 2.0

I actually think that Martin is a better ruckman then Jamar as he actually tries to tap it to advantage, not just get his hand on it for the stat of winning the tapout

Neeld is looking for another marking tall. Pushed Garland up forward adn rivers for a half against the pies. Role si there for Martin. Then Martin can chop out Jamar and Clark just sit up forward.

I did notice at teh end of last season that Martin credited his breakthrough season thanks to working during the break, but he said this year he was looking forward to relaxing for 6 weeks. Perhaps a player of MArtins ilk can't afford to relax.

I have faith in Spencer coming good, looked comfortable in the few games he played last year, but can't remember if he played in the NAB cup. Has been dominant at VFL level and is still very young. Saying that I think Stef could be an option as trade bait but I do enjoy watching him and hope he fits in somewhere.

He needs to be able to mark in the forward line, that's integral to his role as "2nd ruck". He can't do it now but the encouraging thing is that he gets to the contest which is more than half the battle.

The further it's gone one the more amazed I'll be if he can learn to mark well enough to pose any sort of forward threat.

Given up on him as KPF (and Watts too) - would love to be proven wrong in either case.

IMO his only role is KPB in competition with Sellar to take the gorillas/2nd rucks.

I haven't given up on him yet. He proved himself in the ruck last year and needs to find a way to be a target and contribute up forward.

I still think he has the raw materials for that to happen.