Straight swap for Jordan Lisle. Is a natural CHF/FF and my mum taught him as a kid. Bring him to the Dees. Young, big-ish body, 21, shown he can play. Get on him!

I think Rivers is the most overrated player that I have seen in three decades of watching football. How he has played more games than Warnock is beyond me. He plays the easiest position on the ground yet he rarely stars.

He rarely is responsible for a direct opponent and he provides almost no attacking value. I can’t think of any other player in the league that has it so easy. I think Rivers would struggle to get a game at any other club.

He won the raising star as an older mature player in a weak year, and has been getting selected off it ever since.

Most weeks he plays loose because he cannot defend one on one. He is not capable of playing on a tall, a strong or a fast player. It was plain to see during the few times when he is given a direct opponent this year opposition teams isolate him because they know even in a poor side he is the weak link.

He has poor disposal, I believe that it is on par with Warnocks. He offers very little run out of the backline. He is not a marking target for kickouts. Opposition teams do not man up on him like other loose backman because he is no attacking threat.

The one thing that Rivers excels at is courage, he is not afraid to run back into a pack.He plays a loose man to help spoil and be the third man up. I believe almost any other player on the list could do this role, however they may also be able to defend or attack. Without being able to offer anything else, he is a liability in the team. I believe that Warnock could play the role Rivers does, but Rivers cannot play the role Warnock does.

When was the last time Rivers played loose man in defence??? I reckon it's been at least 12 months, he had a direct opponent ever game this year and can only think of possibly 2 occassions where he was beaten. Rivers does struggle a bit for pace but he's deceptively strong one on one, reads the play well, is a good mark and his disposal while not great is easily superior to that of Warnocks.

Warnock's been a good servant of the club but it's certainly time for him to move on with Davis & Tom McDonald providing more then enough depth for our tall defensive stocks. Reckon teams like Carlton, GWS, Hawthorn & St. Kilda would all be interested in Matty for next year.

We have young McDonald and Davis as our back up defenders, who need the opportunity to play and develop, we dont need Warnock for depth.

I think you are right.

We don't need any hard experienced players

We need more young inexperienced untried players who have not yet developed beyong average.

Straight swap for Jordan Lisle. Is a natural CHF/FF and my mum taught him as a kid. Bring him to the Dees. Young, big-ish body, 21, shown he can play. Get on him!

What about a 3 way trade.

Warnock to Hawthorn

Ellis to Brisbane.

Cornelius to Melbourne.

I'd be happy with that trade!

I still think he is underrated. I would rather keep him than Rivers. Taller, Faster, can actually play on a forward. Imagine how Warnock could play if he had the luxury of not having to be responsible for a direct opponent like Rivers often does.

Thomo, seriously... you need to re-think the above.

I think Nasher put it best when he said you should consider that maybe you are missing something.

Maybe a lot of things.

my post deleted, lol seriously?

accurate opinions arent valid in here?

Sorry RPFC but with the hand we have at the table I reckon his currency is high to very high. Big strong bodied defender who dominates at AFL level, did well against a monster in Tippett and has played some very handy games for us. If the Hawks want him IMO a trade for either Sewell,Birchall or Suckling would be acceptable.All non key position and the Hawks have heaps of them. Leave Ellis and a few others alone , one of these three would be ok. Otherwise let the bidding begin.

I'm sorry.

It isn't.

Warnock will not get us much at all.

Sorry RPFC but with the hand we have at the table I reckon his currency is high to very high. Big strong bodied defender who dominates at AFL level, did well against a monster in Tippett and has played some very handy games for us. If the Hawks want him IMO a trade for either Sewell,Birchall or Suckling would be acceptable.All non key position and the Hawks have heaps of them. Leave Ellis and a few others alone , one of these three would be ok. Otherwise let the bidding begin.

Another case of a D'land poster overrating our own. Very lop sided deals there.

Always knew this would happen. He can command a regular spot in many other teams who need a big defender who defends first and foremost.

People asking for Ellis need to think again, do we need another outside player with average skills who is not bog bodies or tough?

We have many holes to fill and Ellis is not going to fix any of our issues.

Thats right about Ellis. He has been pedestrian at times at VFL level this year.

We have young McDonald and Davis as our back up defenders, who need the opportunity to play and develop, we dont need Warnock for depth.

Indeed. Warnock is not a proxy for Frawley

Economis - Supply - not a lot of big key defenders available, far more medium type on ballers.

Logic - Name the match ups for a player like Warnock. Also Warnock is a one position player

Another case of a D'land poster overrating our own. Very lop sided deals there.

Thats right about Ellis. He has been pedestrian at times at VFL level this year.

Indeed. Warnock is not a proxy for Frawley

Logic - Name the match ups for a player like Warnock. Also Warnock is a one position player

Perhaps I was a little ambitious, but wouldn't like to go to the negotiating table seeking unders, as our wish will indeed be fulfilled.

well well.. Good luck Matt. Was on my list as a keeper , but cant blame him.

Going to be the most interesting off season I can imagine.. Tainted draft, others looking for new homes. Picks all over the place. New Coach, new agenda !!

Lets see who else want to leave...both us...and other clubs !!

Perhaps I was a little ambitious, but wouldn't like to go to the negotiating table seeking unders, as our wish will indeed be fulfilled.

No.

Go seeking ridiculous overs on your 33rd best player and get nothing out of trade week...

But hey, that's how it's done!

Thomo,

We are watching different games.

Jared Rivers very very rarely plays 'loose' man or as you title 'the easiest position on the ground'. He may have played this role occasionaly 5 years ago but not since.

Rivers has a direct opponent every week and except for the game against Collingwood this year has rarely been beaten.

I suppose to some it looks as if Rivers is playing loose man because he is such a good reader of the play he often zones off his man to help out other defenders and take uncontsted marks.

This week against Port Adelaide for example John Butcher barely touched the footy.

Rivers, Garland and Frawley have been terrific, it is not our defensive backs that are to blame for this season.

Thomo,

We are watching different games.

Jared Rivers very very rarely plays 'loose' man or as you title 'the easiest position on the ground'. He may have played this role occasionaly 5 years ago but not since.

Rivers has a direct opponent every week and except for the game against Collingwood this year has rarely been beaten.

I suppose to some it looks as if Rivers is playing loose man because he is such a good reader of the play he often zones off his man to help out other defenders and take uncontsted marks.

This week against Port Adelaide for example John Butcher barely touched the footy.

Rivers, Garland and Frawley have been terrific, it is not our defensive backs that are to blame for this season.

I missed yesterdays game, so I can’t comment on that.

If he is not playing loose, he is rarely on the best defenders. Frawley, Garland, Bartram and MacDonald/Grimes/someone else, all take more dangerous players than him. Warnock normally has to take the most dangerous forward when he plays.

For a defender he rarely has a tough match up, and is not expected to offer much in attack. Easiest position on the ground.

The club and many posters see it different to me. But the way that other clubs are starting to isolate him shows that some others see it as I do. Extremely overrated on here and at the club.

It will be interesting if Malthouse comes to the club to see what he does with him. He obviously sees him as a weak link and exploited it.

I reckon we do a deal with Carlton, and just do a straight swap of the brothers.

I think the insurance industry would call that a "warNOCK for warNOCK agreement"...

(Sorry! Couldn't help myself! Just blame it on "Mad Monday!" LOL)

Xavier Ellis? Can't think of too many other decent hawks they'd be willing to give up.

Yeah something like this could be a possibility. Ellis has had a dissapointing year at Hawthorn, and I reckon seems to have fallen down in the pecking orderm only the 8 games this year. Playing him off HB could release a player like Tappy to the FWD line, to play where he was actually drafted to play. Could be an interesting trade.

Would anyone think that STK could also be interested in a player like Warnock??

He plays loose because he reads the footy better than just about anybody in the AFL, and, as you mentioned, he's courageous and a good leader.

Like Ben Reid, except we'd rather let Garland and Chip physically take on the forwards.

I would be happy to trade him to Carlton for Hampson and maybe swap our third round picks.

Why do we need another ruckman when we have Jamar, Martin, Gawn, Spencer and Campbell?

If there is one area we are flush in is ruckman. Lets trade for something that we actually need.

....

You are really splitting hairs over Rivers and Warnock. Neither are top line defenders. But Warnock gives us nothing over Rivers. Warnock goes and Rivers should be looking over his shoulder at the developed of TMacDonald and Davis.

And its patently untrue that at AFL level Warnock gets the best forward when he plays. Last year when Warnock played in the Brisbane game at the MCG, Frawley took Jonathan Brown. If Warnock has tabs for the future its playing on the big giant forwards. He needs to win contests against Cloke, Pods, Dawes and Tippett to survive. He will be burnt by quicker less lumbering opponents

I think we would want way better than that for Warnock.

Almost won a norm smith medal. injury riddled this year, unlucky. good user of the ball. something we lack.

He plays loose because he reads the footy better than just about anybody in the AFL, and, as you mentioned, he's courageous and a good leader.

A defnder who plays loose and isnt quick gets found out. Its happens with Rivers. And he is another in the leadership group that should go after Davey and Green.

Anyone who can only manage 4 games playing for Melbourne in 2011 is not worth to much as trade bait.

No.

Go seeking ridiculous overs on your 33rd best player and get nothing out of trade week...

But hey, that's how it's done!

Hawks have a happy knack of putting us and others to the sword on trades.( Most recent example for us Hale, Nth - Gibson, Port Adelaide - Burgoyne). You can come down on a negotiation, you cant go up. Further you don't think Warnock would have some amount of desire to play with his brother and the fact that Carlton's backline is not overly strong. I think its worth running with this.

Hale??

I'm pretty happy with Howe thanks, let alone the pick for Cook that we wanted.

Martin and Gawn were actually significant ruck depth in the end.

Hale hasn't exactly had a blinder of a season, and I don't see how the hawks paying over the odds for him have "put us to the sword."

2 top ten picks for Burgoyne wasn't bad either.

And I reckon Gibson is vastly overrated.

Hale??

I'm pretty happy with Howe thanks, let alone the pick for Cook that we wanted.

Martin and Gawn were actually significant ruck depth in the end.

Hale hasn't exactly had a blinder of a season, and I don't see how the hawks paying over the odds for him have "put us to the sword."

2 top ten picks for Burgoyne wasn't bad either.

And I reckon Gibson is vastly overrated.

Both clubs wanted him. Who won the race for Hale? Result we lost.

Nth did not want to lose Gibson. Who lost?

demand is what drives currency and I would suggest a ready made full back has an extremely high

currency currently.

Why.

Gold Coast want one to relieve Bock

Carlton want one to assist Jamison

Richmond need to sure up their back line

Hawthorn need to sure up their back line

North could use another key defender

GWS will want a ready made defender

1st rounder is all i'd expect Warnock might not be a world beater disposal wise

but he is rarely beaten one on one and he will be in demand

Both clubs wanted him. Who won the race for Hale? Result we lost.

Nth did not want to lose Gibson. Who lost?

So... if we got sucked into paying more over the odds than Hawthorn, we would have been winners?

Sorry, but that's stupid logic.

North made a song and dance to try to get a better return for Gibson.

I doubt they were really that worried about losing him.