The Captain .....does he really get it ??

[beelzebub 23,390]

Brad Green said this:

Captain Brad Green said the united approach shown by the players as the week unfolded, and not being blown away yesterday, showed there was resilience in the group. He said he never doubted his own leadership, and refuted the notion that the players had got off lightly.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/demons-work-through-pain-20110806-1igwm.html#ixzz1UIlXJoY9

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apparently not a blow out !!! ?????

As long as someone beleives that rubbish we are still very much in trouble. Footy is as much a mind game as it is an athletic one and here we see just how inadequate our lot are and for why.

Brad, you were blown away, in the 2nd qtr...thats why we lost by 76 points

Brad there was resilience shown but not as a cohesive group, therre were individuals who managed together to string some sort of game together...but not as a group.

Glad you think your leading out there....been taking the meds ??

Actually in a way you are leading the way.. your kicking is [censored]!! others follow

How much is this group still in denial ?

dicuss

[Guest The Tweed Pig]

I've met Brad a couple of times and he's a very nice young man. He's also the worst captain I've ever seen pull on a Melbourne jumper. He's doing his best, but he's not equipped for the role and I'll be shocked if he's captain next year.

[titan_uranus 25,211]

I've met Brad a couple of times and he's a very nice young man. He's also the worst captain I've ever seen pull on a Melbourne jumper. He's doing his best, but he's not equipped for the role and I'll be shocked if he's captain next year.

That's basically how I see it. Good person, has the right intentions, and is a decent player (well, he was, anyway).

But he is the worst captain I have ever seen. He doesn't deserve the role next year, and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't want it either.

[Tigers Dayz 2]

...and he needs to play on the half back flank.

[titan_uranus 25,211]

...and he needs to play on the half back flank.

Rubbish. His best football, is, has, and always will be, when he plays forward.

[Jaded No More 68,976]

I've met Brad a couple of times and he's a very nice young man. He's also the worst captain I've ever seen pull on a Melbourne jumper. He's doing his best, but he's not equipped for the role and I'll be shocked if he's captain next year.

Amen.

Great guy, good player, terrible leader.

Welcome to the Yze, Bruce, White camp.

History always repeats itself at this club.

[Slartibartfast 18,039]

Oh for heavens sake, Jimma said he was proud of the effort, it's clearly the company line.

Time to get off Brad's back.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/7415/newsid/120369/default.aspx

[Juicebox 629]

Green is about as terrible facing the media, as he is in front of goal this year.

If he honestly thinks the result of yesterdays game and how they went about it displayed resilience amongst the group, he is a fool.

Several players can hold their head high after yesterday, but Green is not one of them. If he didn't question his own leadership qualities after last week, that is a disgrace.

[Happeninghunts 7]

Rubbish. His best football, is, has, and always will be, when he plays forward.

One of our best contested Markers we have.

[Captain Jack Jordan 32]

He doesn't inspire me as much as a skipper should. Struggling to hold his spot I reckon. Nice bloke-maybe too nice?

[beelzebub 23,390]

Oh for heavens sake, Jimma said he was proud of the effort, it's clearly the company line.

Time to get off Brad's back.

http://www.melbourne...69/default.aspx

be an apologist all you like FAN..is you pregoative..

Im simply looking at what he's said...compared to how we/he played..and it doesnt marry

Look the other way all you like.

Of course Jimma would say something like that ..it was in the spirit and context of encouragement.

Now step back at look at what it really is.. Try that

[rpfc 28,966]

How much is this group still in denial ?

dicuss

We have already discussed Brad's failings at length - and we are right.

So I will just touch on the denial thing.

The players are the ones in denial.

This is worth a thread on its own but the club (i'm picking this up from Caro's list of player grievances and a few things that I have heard about Schwab's mantra behind closed doors) is split into two camps:

The Premiership Model camp

Schwab, Connolly, and many others are pushing the well worn 'get games into the kids at the expense of present fixtures' with the players like MacDonald, Warnock, Dunn, and Bate missing games to kids while still being in form for Casey. The idea is to build for a flag, senior players are being left behind and their is some resentment.

The Competitive Right Now camp

The senior players and a few around the club (like a few on here) want to put up the 'best' team every week ('best team' is subjective). The senior players have been rebuffed as the Premiership Model has held sway.

My personal view is that the senior players are in denial, and understandably so, for if they were to sacrifice themselves to the truth they would realise they will soon be sacrificed. I have heard that Bailey was playing both sides of this and maybe as head coach he had to...

I don't like to see Melbourne footy players at odds with the admin but if this is the real gripe, and it is my inference I will remind you, then I am far more comfortable with the present situation as it means that the club is trying to do the right thing (pushing for a flag)- and the conflict has been brought about by players selfishly, but understandably, being fearful for their own future.

[Captain Jack Jordan 32]

Careful Belzebub ,

The truth is not well received in these parts .

[rpfc 28,966]

Careful Belzebub ,

The truth is not well received in these parts .

What are you talking about - everyone agreed with him and one mod tried to make sure we didn't pile on.

Because we have, unfortunately, had a 'Brad is a bad captain' thread every week for months...

[H_T 3,049]

Oh for heavens sake, Jimma said he was proud of the effort, it's clearly the company line.

Time to get off Brad's back.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/7415/newsid/120369/default.aspx

Garry disagrees with Jim

MELBOURNE'S stand-in football director, Garry Lyon, says the Demons' senior players need to be more accountable for their performances

"There would be senior blokes out there today who wouldn't be satisfied with their performance," Lyon said.

"You are not going to change the way you play in the space of a week, of course, but what you wanted to do today was to get a more competitive performance. And at times there was, but I think Jim was a bit generous when we heard him talk a bit earlier. I would be a bit more demanding."

On Green and his performance: -

"He (Green) is a proud man, and he would be hurting with today again," Lyon said.

"But he has a very important role to play. He is captain of the club and you have to drag them (the players) along, and get them back up and regather for West Coast next week."

Not quite the company line.

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

Garry disagrees with Jim

I heard Jimmy's presser on MMM (amazing he was even there!!)

and i heard Garry's response.

I agree with Garry...The club is not hard enough on itself from Top to Bottom.

[Jaded No More 68,976]

Oh for heavens sake, Jimma said he was proud of the effort, it's clearly the company line.

Time to get off Brad's back.

http://www.melbourne...69/default.aspx

No offense to Jimmy, because he is a bloody amazing human being, but the effort yesterday was poor, verging on crap, not just from Green but from many players.

Had we not lost by 186 points the week before and sacked Bailey, there would be calls for his head this week.

To lose by 70 odd points is NEVER an effort that we should be proud of, or else we are setting the bar so friggin low it's not funny.

I'm proud of the fact that some players went really hard and we tackled with more intent, but there is nothing to be proud of as a whole, and Green giving away a stupid free kick in the 3rd is just one example of poor leadership which starts at the top.

Not a single player in our leadership group stood up yesterday, when they needed to the most. Rivers, Jones, Moloney and Davey were extremely poor and even though we single out Green, the rest of the group around him isn't much better.

We will never be a successful club with this sort of leadership group.

[Redleg 42,043]

No offense to Jimmy, because he is a bloody amazing human being, but the effort yesterday was poor, verging on crap, not just from Green but from many players.

Had we not lost by 186 points the week before and sacked Bailey, there would be calls for his head this week.

To lose by 70 odd points is NEVER an effort that we should be proud of, or else we are setting the bar so friggin low it's not funny.

I'm proud of the fact that some players went really hard and we tackled with more intent, but there is nothing to be proud of as a whole, and Green giving away a stupid free kick in the 3rd is just one example of poor leadership which starts at the top.

Not a single player in our leadership group stood up yesterday, when they needed to the most. Rivers, Jones, Moloney and Davey were extremely poor and even though we single out Green, the rest of the group around him isn't much better.

We will never be a successful club with this sort of leadership group.

Got the passion back Jaded?

[beelzebub 23,390]

Careful Belzebub ,

The truth is not well received in these parts .

Im well aware of that. but cheers

[beelzebub 23,390]

I heard Jimmy's presser on MMM (amazing he was even there!!)

and i heard Garry's response.

I agree with Garry...The club is not hard enough on itself from Top to Bottom.

Finally in Garry I think we have someone whos prepared to step outside of "standard football quotes 101 " and start telling it as it is.. Hes sti lvery diplomatic to the public and can only hope hes tearing a few blokes apart behind doors.

Some of these blokes today just dont get it. They couldnt walk in the shadow of many of the blokes who ironically are here and now trying to sort thngs out.

Quite frankly Green is just all talk..am tired of it. Even more so because at times hes been a bloody great player..but its all yesterdays news at the moment.

Green might think hes actually doing somethig ok...getting better. Garry begs to differ. I beg to differ.

That hes a great bloke is marvellous...and totally irrelevant on the park.

My idea in this thread is not to assasinate anyone but highlight what is to me an obvious trait that needs irradicating...that of delusion !!

[Akum 2,660]

We have already discussed Brad's failings at length - and we are right.

So I will just touch on the denial thing.

The players are the ones in denial.

This is worth a thread on its own but the club (i'm picking this up from Caro's list of player grievances and a few things that I have heard about Schwab's mantra behind closed doors) is split into two camps:

The Premiership Model camp

Schwab, Connolly, and many others are pushing the well worn 'get games into the kids at the expense of present fixtures' with the players like MacDonald, Warnock, Dunn, and Bate missing games to kids while still being in form for Casey. The idea is to build for a flag, senior players are being left behind and their is some resentment.

The Competitive Right Now camp

The senior players and a few around the club (like a few on here) want to put up the 'best' team every week ('best team' is subjective). The senior players have been rebuffed as the Premiership Model has held sway.

My personal view is that the senior players are in denial, and understandably so, for if they were to sacrifice themselves to the truth they would realise they will soon be sacrificed. I have heard that Bailey was playing both sides of this and maybe as head coach he had to...

I don't like to see Melbourne footy players at odds with the admin but if this is the real gripe, and it is my inference I will remind you, then I am far more comfortable with the present situation as it means that the club is trying to do the right thing (pushing for a flag)- and the conflict has been brought about by players selfishly, but understandably, being fearful for their own future.

Fascinating scenario. Can't help but get the impression that the seniors have either collectively thrown in the towel and given up on a future with Melbourne past this season, or are trying to show us what it's going to be like without any input from them, or are trying to get by on reputation rather than performance. In which case ...

[Swampfox 190]

Leadership is something you are either good at or your not

It has nothing to do with your ability to play football

It has often affected the way you play football though

Natural Captains i have seen are Stephen Kernahan , Darrell Baldock , Ron Barassi , Kevin Murray , Ted Whitten , Roger Dean

Brad Green is the best option we have without going for someone very young

Brad isnt a natural captain and IMO neither is Chris Judd

North Melbourne selected 2 of the youngest ever captains with premierships being a result (David Dench and Wayne Carey)

Melbourne has a rich history of excellent captains with Ivor Warne Smith arguably the best of the bunch

From the young list we have Grimes , Trengove , Scully are all junior state captains with McKenzie and Watts other likely candidates

I really doubt Scully will be a demon in 2012

I have never liked teams who select dual captains

Being a traditionalist i would first be waiting on who will be our senior coach as he would have a big say on team leadership

Not a fan of the trendy leadership group structure they have these days

IMO Grimes as Captain, Trengove as Vice Captain with McKenzie a deputy Vice Captain

These guys are our future

I think we have failed to recruit enough players to fill each age brackets in the last 10 years

We don't have enough 23 - 26 year old players (similar to Richmond) that do not have the 100 games experience , developed bodies and leadership qualities

[beelzebub 23,390]

I think whats happening is a handful are focussing more on their futures than on their effectiveness on the park. A little cart before horse.

Ironically the better they were to play the more required they would be.

[Demon Dynasty 17,135]

I think whats happening is a handful are focussing more on their futures than on their effectiveness on the park. A little cart before horse.

Ironically the better they were to play the more required they would be.

Although it's a little too late and unusual to change Captains at this point, Viney's appointment would have been a possibility to do so. However, he's already said he's a temp coach so this means he would've been quite reluctant to make any 'major' changes such as captaincy. Would be another ripple through the playing group as well. One i think was needed when it was obvious to all earlier in the season. We missed the boat, yet again.

That being said i agree with you BB. Lack of leadership on field and off this year (along with who knows what else has gone on behind the scenes in the admin/FD), has seen an ugly ending to our season.

Having seen what's gone on this year, and the year pretty much done and dusted now.....my nomination for our long term captain from next year, is a young man who's shown great progress, heart, spirit and some wonderful passages of creative play. He also finishes where many others, including most in our senior group, fail to.

In addition he shows me something i've seen sadly lacking in many of the senior leadership group so often in so many of the big games, especially at crucial times when the game's still in the balance. And that's 2nd and 3rd efforts and a will to get to many contests! He leads by example consistently week in & week out, with a few odd exceptions (to be expected given his age/inexperience), even when we're being pumped.

By a country mile.......JACK WATTS!

[Slartibartfast 18,039]

Garry disagrees with Jim

Not quite the company line.

Nice pickup. It demonstrates Lyons clear conflict of interest. Was he speaking as a football media commentator (he was commenting on Triple M) or as his position as, well, whatever he is at Melbourne?

Stynes and Green were clearly trying to minimise the fractured confidence at the club.

Lyon wasn't.