I totally agree with a youthful leadership group. Our older-age players are not leaders. Just watch our games! Watch last weekend's debacle if you're a masochist. It's JT, Watts & Jordie doing the leadership things.

I will concentrate on Trengove as my captaincy choice. Becoming an elite player; never stops trying; tackles even when cramping on the boundary line. Most importantly, he asserts himself at critical junctures when games are there to be won. I'm thinking of key marks in the Essendon game & tackles in the Port game. On other occasions he's failed, but it's those key acts that are required of a leader. We haven't had a guy like that for a while at MFC. Good SA family, good media performer. Who cares about their age?

Trengove, Moloney, Frawley, McKenzie, Watts, Grimes (if he can just play)would do me fine. Rivers & Jones for one of the last two if we wanted some semblance of maturity.

We have a youth policy. Let's "go the whole hog"!!

Matthews has written an article on afl.com.au in which he criticises our leadership as being to blame for the number and magnitude of the big losses we've had. I think that's a fair call.

He goes on to assert that we need to put the leadership focus on the Coach, rather than the players, because the players aren't up to scratch in that regard:

The concept of empowering player leadership groups to help run their own teams is justified if they are capable of the responsibility and it does not adversely affecting their core role as on-field performers.

If they cannot the results can be disastrous.

Basically one size does not fit all and a good dose of authoritarian coaching style might be just what the Demons need at this stage of their development, because their player leadership group is just not getting it done.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/120035/default.aspx

ahem..Rogue..see post #2 this thread !!

It is a bloody good article though, worth posting twice.

And I don't agree that Jones won't be there in a few years.

I think he's he'll play 200+ games at the club.

Jones won't be here in 2 to 3 years. Why would you give him the captaincy?

I agree. He's borderline best 22 now, which is some feat considering we have arguably the worst midfield in the AFL.

Todd Gary and Jim should dissolve the leadership group now, there are 5 games to go, let the natural leaders come to the fore. take those who rise to the top and present them to the new coach whome ever that is and let him decide. With a new coach on the way no big decisions should be made in regards to the playing group.

I agree. He's borderline best 22 now, which is some feat considering we have arguably the worst midfield in the AFL.

I would have said the same thing last year but he has been our most consistent midfielder this season. He's limited, but that doesn't mean his time at the club is.

ahem..Rogue..see post #2 this thread !!

You might have noted that I was focussing on the assertion that we need to focus not on the 'leadership group' to fix out leadership problems, but instead on the Coach.

It's a different point than just 'the leadership group we have now sucks', and warren dean's post (post #2) didn't mention Matthews' appeal for an 'authoritarian coaching style'.

A closer look at the thread shows that Rusty Nails mentions this point, but much of the discussion following on from that post has continued debating changes to the players within the leadership group, rather than the Matthews suggestion that we should be putting the leadership focus elsewhere.

Ahem, .

I don't see a great deal of difference between Jones and Dane Swan.

Jones has quite a bit of ground to make up, but it's not beyond him.

I would have said the same thing last year but he has been our most consistent midfielder this season. He's limited, but that doesn't mean his time at the club is.

I was down at Geelong and I didn't see him putting in. The ones who certainly did were Jordie Mac, Trenners and Whopper. There were a couple of exceptions, but Jones did bugger all. If I was Jones I'd be worried about my position on the list. His decision making and foot skills often have left a lot to be desired. His kicking for goal this year has been very good, but he still makes the wrong decision too often and goes missing when we need leadership.

I don't see a great deal of difference between Jones and Dane Swan.

Jones has quite a bit of ground to make up, but it's not beyond him.

I do. Swan makes the right decisions and knows his limitations. Jones simply doesn't. I admire his hardness, but leadership, no.

Once again people take any opportunity to bag Jones. I would have thought that he is one of the only players that actually works hard every week and continues to improve in an under achieving side

2011:

1st for disposals

3rd for inside 50's

3rd for rebounding 50's

3rd for goal assists

4th of Contested Possessions

4th for marks

Not sure who people are expecting to step up and fill this role?

Jones is a valuable inside player but I'd like to see him think and act a little quicker when he get the hard ball. His first instinct seems to be to protect the ball rather than get it off quick. Takes him ages to figure out what to do with it next.

I thought Green would make a good captain, but I was wrong. Only good for the occasional tug on his own jumper when he kicks a goal and we're ahead. His ignoring of Bate, useless as he might be, in that nearly-a-handball incident, and even a mark he took on the line to stop another player's kick going through a couple of weeks ago, really sum him up. Much too slow for the mid-field, but at FF he is still the best grab in the team and takes contested marks. He might kick more accurately if he isn't captain.

Jones has come up for discussion. I always see him like this: one moment I'm tearing my hair out as he makes his slow motion decisions and gets tackled or muffs a kick; next I'm thinking he's our best player. And that is the tragedy of the Melbourne team. As a real trier, he belongs, but shouldn't be captain or even in a leadership group.

Seriously, young or not, the next leaders must be Trengove, McKenzie, Grimes, Watts. Three Jacks and a Jordie. Not only do they have character, guts and ability, but they won't be dropped. We need men of substance, ability and integrity to stand for the Melbourne team, not tweeting, clubbing, inarticulate, front-running yahoos. I suppose I'm assuming they haven't caught the yahoo bug.

Trengove will be captain of the club at some time, and will end up being one of our greats. Might as well be now. The times demand radical action, not nursing and dithering; he should be made captain next year. And let's drop the namby-pamby idea of having more than one captain.

Jones has come up for discussion. I always see him like this: one moment I'm tearing my hair out as he makes his slow motion decisions and gets tackled or muffs a kick; next I'm thinking he's our best player. And that is the tragedy of the Melbourne team. As a real trier, he belongs, but shouldn't be captain or even in a leadership group.

You're probably right, David Lynch. By all accounts he prepares well for games, but as you say, he shouldn't be in the leadership group.

Morton, Maric, Bate, Bennell and Jurrah

I was down at Geelong and I didn't see him putting in. The ones who certainly did were Jordie Mac, Trenners and Whopper. There were a couple of exceptions, but Jones did bugger all. If I was Jones I'd be worried about my position on the list. His decision making and foot skills often have left a lot to be desired. His kicking for goal this year has been very good, but he still makes the wrong decision too often and goes missing when we need leadership.

I think his disposal has been better this year; probably correlated with the fact he's spending more time out on the wing, with less pressure than in the centre square.

Certainly. It's been better, but when push comes to shove?

Certainly. It's been better, but when push comes to shove?

I've consistently said that I think Jones is likely to get pushed out if we develop a very good midfield.

I don't see a great deal of difference between Jones and Dane Swan.

Jones has quite a bit of ground to make up, but it's not beyond him.

Really? Swan has more speed, strength and smarts, is better by foot and in the air, and is arguably the best midfielder in the game. I think Jones has more than a bit of ground to make it.

Can't fault him for effort and passion though.

Happy to let the players choose their own leadership group, with one condition, all leaders must be 24 years of age or under (Moloney excepted).

I'd include Moloney.

Personally: Trengove, Frawley, Grimes, Jamar, Watts, McKenzie.

Names I have suggested to my friends. Jordie Mc as Captain to set the bar.

Agree.

Wipe most of the current group.

RR, you've been concussed by the recent machinations.

As I've posted previously, I don't favour appointing someone too young as captain. So, I've thought some more about who it ought to be, recognising I don't see all their off field capabilities. I've concluded it's out of two.

One has been AA, has for the last couple of years performed exceptionally well and when he's spoken in the media seems quite capable. That's Mark Jamar.

The other struggles in the media but until this year showed great courage and capability - that's Brad Green. What I'd really like to know is why his form has dropped off. I don't believe it's the captaincy...unless the off field issues are far worse than we know and he's been involved at his own personal distress. If we can find out why Green's performance has dropped off and can fix it, maybe he is still the best person to be captain.

I now expect to be strongly criticised on this forum...

And you should be...

But I'm just going to let your post speak for itself.