I was talking about that in the abstract.

I am troubled by people thinking that pick 10 and Pick 20 in the 2012 draft will be the same as Tom Scully (I am making two assumptions: 1. We don't trade the picks, and 2. We use them in the next unspoiled draft).

The kids we get will be more speculative and will push back our window.

That's my point.

And that's why I hope we trade those picks, or at least one, for an established player.

Oh I understand and respect what you were saying rpfc, and I agree (me being facetious aside).....

My point being that whatever the number, whatever the talent (and they will all have some) they have to want to play here.

You get drafted and then loyalty is shown to that club, and hopefully it still will be.

Edited July 21, 201114 yr by QueenC

I think those examples hold plenty of water.

Just less media attention...

Provide examples where players have been offered 75-100% more than they'd reasonably expect by their incumbent club yet decided to wait til year's end before committing even though they knew their club was keen for a response. Naturally this request assumes no GWS or GCS.

Edited July 21, 201114 yr by The Tweed Pig

BINGO !

I'm sure you'll also take up the challenge I offered to the initialled one.

there reason for sarcarsm is because you are trying to say that because Rioli signed without fanfare so should Scully.

You are taking different players and trying to bundle them the same. So I am clear and non sarcastic i will be clear - through the history of the AFL we have had players who had signed on with little fanfare and on the other extreme we have had Silvio Foschini who went to court to get to Stkilda. With FA coming in fanfares will become common place get used to it.

And intrinsically every supporter thought that Green would stay and i would counter that most thought that Bruce would stay

( not sure every supporter wanted him to stay but thats another story). You are putting your opinions on an issue and trying to pass them off as fact.

I keep repeating myself - I have no idea if he will stay but I will not say I am not entirely confident . But I wont suggest I am privvy as to where the negotiations are up to or whether they have been completed or whether there is more to come or not. This horrible Velocity strategy could be ended now but as Pavlich has always done - the longer it goes the better for Velocity's client. And I wont take anything that reporters with unattributable sources declare as facts to be so.

All will be revealed when Velocity are good and ready.

OK - now we're talking, rather than the belittling garnish at the end of every post.

Sylvio was from a bygone era and I was talking about a footballer who signed without fanfare today. I suppose most of my thoughts are jealously emotive as other (top) players sign with their clubs without too much haggling......

Provide examples where players have been offered 75-100% more than they'd reasonably expect by their incumbent club yet decided to wait til year's end before committing even though they knew their club was keen for a response. Naturally this request assumes no GWS or GCS.

How can you divorce GWS from this.

Answer me this question first.

A) is there a chance that there is more to come to the table from the MFC ? is the contract done and dusted - no more changes, additions, deletions or anything that could sweeten the pot ? No negotiation on any of the "Supposed" clauses he is "supposedly" unhappy with ?

I dont believe this to be case - but even if you say - the contract is now a concrete contract then :-

the letter before C - everytime I type B a little demon face comes up) are you also sure there is nothing more to come from GWS - A job for his dad ? his mum to become GWS office manageress ?

Who knows but even if you say - the contract is now a concrere contract then :-

C) most importantly - is the MFC or the GWS offer going to get worse between now and 8 weeks time

From a Velocity point of view, advising your client - why would you tell him to commit now ? either way ?

Edited July 21, 201114 yr by nutbean

What I find strange is that his management advise him to put contract talks on hold until the end of the season so as to see what he's worth then and to not distract him from footy, yet they go to GWS during the year and request them to make an offer. This is hypocrisy at its finest.

Whether or not Melbourne did the wrong thing by putting in an offer before the end of the year, it does not justify going to GWS and asking for a contract offer. You just say to Melbourne thanks for the offer but as we've previously said we will wait until the end of the year.

Seeking an offer from GWS is only going to increase speculation and it makes a mockery of prior comments that contract talks will be put on hold until the end of the season.

And in relation to the two first round picks, as others have mentioned picks 12 and 18 (for example) are not the same as pick 1. We need stars on our list and the best way to get stars is with the top 3, 4, 5 picks in the draft. I'm not interested in replacing Scully (if he goes) with two good players. We have a potential star in Scully and if we lose him we must replace him with a star.

I agree with you the best way to get stars is with top 5 picks. But in most drafts there are super players picked up after the top 5 even the top 10.

2007 draft: pick 12 Rioli, 14 Grimes ( Morton 4 )

2008 draft: pick 11 Sidebottom, 18 Shuey

2009 draft: pick 11 Gysberts, 14 Jetta, 18 Tapscott, 20 Fyfe, 21 Bastinac

Not sure about you but I could handle any of these two players as replacemnets for Scully.

OK - now we're talking, rather than the belittling garnish at the end of every post.

Sylvio was from a bygone era and I was talking about a footballer who signed without fanfare today. I suppose most of my thoughts are jealously emotive as other (top) players sign with their clubs without too much haggling......

And I agree with you 100% that you thoughts are emotive and so are mine when i say that Velocity and Tom could end this right now if they wanted to and it does cause me some grief - but it is their choice not to as it has been with other footballers.

The major difference with Tom is this groundbreaking and unprecedented - a 20 year old first round draft pick, with less than 2 years under his belt has been offered a million dollars a year ( supposedly). There is the issue around why he was first round - compensating for us being crap , the issue of 2nd year players being targeted and one of the first contracts ever offered on pure potential rather than reality. With media fuel added to he fire it is drivng emotion through the roof.

I am not sure how you can compare anyone signing to their club with what is happening here - probably one - Matthew Kreuzer. Everyones signs for their own reasons and have different strategies to get the outcome they want.

All I am trying to do is trying to throw some logic around some of the arguments. I apologise for the sarcasm and I do respect opposite opinions but tend to fire off when they are based on emotion.

I am feeling very much less comfortable than I was three weeks ago and am less than 50/50 on him staying and yes I am admonishing myself because it is still being fueled by unnamed sources.

I have watched RPFC's take on this and he has been strong on the logic. I sense even he is not quite as confident as a couple of weeks ago. I have listened to RR's position and I admire it from the sense that he is polar opposite to me in what he believes but his opinion has been 100% logical and arguable.

Edited July 21, 201114 yr by nutbean

Like most people, I'm totally over this whole thing. I've actually found myself more and more indifferent as to whether he stays or not.

If he leaves to GWS, we absolutely can make the best of a bad situation.

Sylvinator's plan:

Step 1

Trade 1 comp pick + Warnock + (Dunn or Bate or Morton) to GWS for O'Meara. I can't see any other club being able to beat that kind of offer, a valuable compo pick which can be used for 5 years, Warnock will be solid full back for a start-up club, Dunn or Bate or Morton are pretty solid footballers, definitely too good to rot in VFL.

LOSE: Scully, Warnock, Bate

GAIN: 1 Compo pick + O'Meara

We'll get a super talent in O'Meara who, if drafted in 2012, would be rated top 3 for sure at the moment + another first round pick we can use for the 2012 superdraft!

Step 2

Having saved paying Scully $600k, and still with a $1m hole in our cap having front loaded lots of contracts in recent times, use that cash to make a huge play for someone.

One option that looks REALLY appealing to me is to throw $400k-$500k at Tom Lynch from Gold Coast. There must be some Victorians playing for Gold Coast that want to go home, and there's no way Gold Coast can pay them all big bucks.

Tom Lynch looked really really good as a first year 198cm key forward. He's the exact 'type' we need because unless Watts and Cook, who are skillful roaming forwards, Lynch looks to be developing into more a moster forward once he bulks up. Gold Coast have Sam Day and Charlie Dixon as key forwards that they need to pay the big bucks to before Tom Lynch.

CONCLUSION

Let's get excited about turning a horrible negative into a positive. If Scully wants to go to GWS for money, so be it. If he stays, good. if not, the club is bigger than one player

What's going to happen on Sunday?

Will Scully be greeted with cheers, silence or boos when he gets the footy and goes for a gallop?

I have a feeling he'll be booed, which may eradicate any lingering doubts he has about relocating! Would be disappoint me greatly (even though I'm looking forward to booing him LOUDLY next year).

Thoughts?

Well that's just too stupid to even imagine (booing Scully). I have to admit to having a feeling of indifference when I watch him play, like I'm watching Judd or Hodge, but I could never boo TS and I trust no one else would. Of course if I see him in a GWS jumper next year that will be a different matter altogether.

Edited July 21, 201114 yr by diesel

You guys really need to get some friends in the industry

you need to wake up and smell the Falafel cooking in Sydney's western suburbs....

I say that we Melbourne diehards should give the young guy a break and focus on building team morale. Whether Tom stays or goes, the team is made up of a number deserving and proud players, whose achievements have been overshadowed by the constant focus on Scully's future which out of our hands . Addam Maric is a prefect example of a player determined to play in the senior team and through his efforts and hard work he is gaining game time and will improve in the years to come. I say let's support all the players and strengthen the club.

And I agree with you 100% that you thoughts are emotive and so are mine when i say that Velocity and Tom could end this right now if they wanted to and it does cause me some grief - but it is their choice not to as it has been with other footballers.

The major difference with Tom is this groundbreaking and unprecedented - a 20 year old first round draft pick, with less than 2 years under his belt has been offered a million dollars a year ( supposedly). There is the issue around why he was first round - compensating for us being crap , the issue of 2nd year players being targeted and one of the first contracts ever offered on pure potential rather than reality. With media fuel added to he fire it is drivng emotion through the roof.

I am not sure how you can compare anyone signing to their club with what is happening here - probably one - Matthew Kreuzer. Everyones signs for their own reasons and have different strategies to get the outcome they want.

All I am trying to do is trying to throw some logic around some of the arguments. I apologise for the sarcasm and I do respect opposite opinions but tend to fire off when they are based on emotion.

I am feeling very much less comfortable than I was three weeks ago and am less than 50/50 on him staying and yes I am admonishing myself because it is still being fueled by unnamed sources.

I have watched RPFC's take on this and he has been strong on the logic. I sense even he is not quite as confident as a couple of weeks ago. I have listened to RR's position and I admire it from the sense that he is polar opposite to me in what he believes but his opinion has been 100% logical and arguable.

No worries, I appreciate your opinion and your comments. I think we're all desperate at what's unfolding at the moment.

I, for one, hope he plays an absolute blinder on Sunday.

Let's face it, the boy has kept his lips zipped. Everything is conjecture. Either result is a win.

What concerns me (and reading this thread, many others) is the denigration of the club by by a respected journalist who has in the past purported to follow the MFC and a more junior colleague who will never be more than a hack. Therefore News Linited is where he belongs!

Both, as far as I'm concerned, should be barred by the club for interviews, stories etc. The Hun has other journos. At least Robbo was honest enough to say he was confused and had nothing but an opinion - which are like ar*eholes.

Time for the club to take action about this.

The Scully situation will resolve itself.

What's going to happen on Sunday?

Will Scully be greeted with cheers, silence or boos when he gets the footy and goes for a gallop?

I have a feeling he'll be booed, which may eradicate any lingering doubts he has about relocating! Would be disappoint me greatly (even though I'm looking forward to booing him LOUDLY next year).

Thoughts?

What a ridiculous comment. You better not do that sitting anywhere near me or you may just get damaged....To think that the number 31 is booed....

No worries, I appreciate your opinion and your comments. I think we're all desperate at what's unfolding at the moment.

I, for one, hope he plays an absolute blinder on Sunday.

yes me too

and I wont stop cheering him until he stops donning the red and blue and may that be in 16 years

Let's face it, the boy has kept his lips zipped. Everything is conjecture. Either result is a win.

What concerns me (and reading this thread, many others) is the denigration of the club by by a respected journalist who has in the past purported to follow the MFC and a more junior colleague who will never be more than a hack. Therefore News Linited is where he belongs!

Both, as far as I'm concerned, should be barred by the club for interviews, stories etc. The Hun has other journos. At least Robbo was honest enough to say he was confused and had nothing but an opinion - which are like ar*eholes.

Time for the club to take action about this.

The Scully situation will resolve itself.

Spot On, the club can live without Mike Sheahan and Jay Clark..(who??)

Let's face it, the boy has kept his lips zipped. Everything is conjecture. Either result is a win.

What concerns me (and reading this thread, many others) is the denigration of the club by by a respected journalist who has in the past purported to follow the MFC and a more junior colleague who will never be more than a hack. Therefore News Linited is where he belongs!

Both, as far as I'm concerned, should be barred by the club for interviews, stories etc. The Hun has other journos. At least Robbo was honest enough to say he was confused and had nothing but an opinion - which are like ar*eholes.

Time for the club to take action about this.

The Scully situation will resolve itself.

I actually really like Robbo - as he is not hard and fast and will say "i wasnt right on that" -he will give opinions of varying strengths - which especially plays out on the TV - he will be very firm on certain opinions but then on others he will say " i sorta think...." and with Scully he seems genuinely confused.

Edited July 21, 201114 yr by nutbean

No Donny , these men are cowards.

Observations:

- why is Tom now unhappy with some of the clauses in the MFC Contract. I thought he wasn't looking at the contracts until the end of the season. (Moderators I'm not saying he is lying but questioning the journalism aspect)

- could he have judgedthe clauses without knowing what GWS was offering.

- Saturday night we virtually won without him as he was beaten generally when he was playing so the world wont end if he goes. We will retain Jact T who will end up our captain and a Melbourne icon. If we really thought about it Tom is not media savvy as Jack is. We need both these days.

- if he did come out now and acknowledge that he was GWS bound what harm would there be to play him at Casey or at all (resting his knee)Haven't the AFL virtually confirmed that we would get two high picks and his value has been now set and confirmed by the contract that we were prepared to offer and the contract that he will go to GWS.

Just points to ponder

How can you divorce GWS from this.

Answer me this question first.

A) is there a chance that there is more to come to the table from the MFC ? is the contract done and dusted - no more changes, additions, deletions or anything that could sweeten the pot ? No negotiation on any of the "Supposed" clauses he is "supposedly" unhappy with ?

"is the contract done and dusted - no more changes, additions, deletions or anything that could sweeten the pot ? No negotiation on any of the "Supposed" clauses he is "supposedly" unhappy with ?"

Don't you read, or listen properly? I said that the dollar amount won't change, but the terms may.

"How can you divorce GWS from this."

Because you were intimating that it's not unusual for a player to wait til the end of the year to finalise a contract. I highlighted that there haven't been any players in Scully's exceptional circumstances, yet you were highlighting other Melbourne players that have also delayed contract talks til year's end. I stated that there haven't been players put off contract talks when they've been offered 75-100% more than they're worth. And that these circumstances may not be seen again for decades.

I may have overrated you.

What's going to happen on Sunday?

Will Scully be greeted with cheers, silence or boos when he gets the footy and goes for a gallop?

I have a feeling he'll be booed, which may eradicate any lingering doubts he has about relocating! Would be disappoint me greatly (even though I'm looking forward to booing him LOUDLY next year).

Thoughts?

Even though I'm starting to lean towards "he's gone" if anyone boos him while he is wearing a Melbourne jumper near me on Sunday they will want to get away from me pretty quick smart. I will be cheering him every time he gets the ball just like I did against the Dogs and every other game he has played this year.

Just saw the Jack Trengove press conference and how good is this kid! The more this goes on the more I am keen to keep him longer!!!!!!!

Jack is incredibly impressive, but it's unfair that he's having to take the heat for Scully in front of the media.

Even though I'm starting to lean towards "he's gone" if anyone boos him while he is wearing a Melbourne jumper near me on Sunday they will want to get away from me pretty quick smart. I will be cheering him every time he gets the ball just like I did against the Dogs and every other game he has played this year.

+1 I hope no one does either. I mean if I was scully and I read and heard what our so called 'supporters' (small amount of people, although alot more lately) are saying, I'd up and go to GWS happily.

Jack is incredibly impressive, but it's unfair that he's having to take the heat for Scully in front of the media.

I think it shows that the Club is entirely comfortable having Jack front the media knowing that he will have to face Scully questioning each time. I think we will be supporting Jack for many years to come.

Even though I'm starting to lean towards "he's gone" if anyone boos him while he is wearing a Melbourne jumper near me on Sunday they will want to get away from me pretty quick smart. I will be cheering him every time he gets the ball just like I did against the Dogs and every other game he has played this year.

+1.

Don't reflect badly on the supporter group boys.