Tom Scully

[Real Demon 232]

Ok, this thread has got out of hand and all I keep seeing is people repeating things said 10 pages earlier with a few words changed around...

But I will address (again) what I think is the most amusing argument I've seen for so many people to be "99.5%" that Scully will go - they can't be wrong and they just MUST have impeccable sources!

Really?

Let's just for a second consider what constitutes an impeccable source in this instance.

Who could be considered in a position to be such a source?

We'll list them:

- Scully

- Scully's management team

- Gubby Allen (or anyone else from GWS)

- Someone in the know at MFC

Anyone else?

So, let's go through them.

Scully: is desperately trying to divert attention and if he has signed, he's not showing it. Why he'd confirm it behind closed doors and fuel the speculation, is well beyond my reckoning.

Scully's Management Team: have Scully's best interests at heart, and if they are in any way professional, would keep their cards as close to their chest as Scully himself does. Why they'd tell a bottom-feeder like Stevens does not compute.

Gubby Allen: it is in his interest to lie about this very fact. If Scully were signed, he'd likely move on to making noise about another player to destabilize their position with their current club. Remember, he whispers things in hallways and says very little publicly himself, so he wears no blame with the target.

He just tells little untruths and keeps the media talking about GWS, all the while living in hope that he'll land a big fish.

MFC: if we KNOW he is going, it is in our interests to very very publicly campaign for better compensation. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I think our current approach shows clear optimism that he will stay. It in no way helps us for people at the top to know he is going and pretend they don't.

Stevens or Schwarz would be the last people anyone would confide in if they knew.

So.............. which of the above is Mark Stevens' impeccable source?

And can somebody please explain to me why he should believe what they say??

Some really good points Artie.

I think in the end he will end up staying with the MFC..........based on nothing more than gut feel.

Impossible to get any meaningful understanding from the media, because like us they don't know either.

You could counter Schwartz's belief he is gone with Trengove's belief he will stay..........who is more believeable????

[Striker475 696]

Close to starting a third TS thread?

[Range Rover 1,935]

Ok, this thread has got out of hand and all I keep seeing is people repeating things said 10 pages earlier with a few words changed around...

But I will address (again) what I think is the most amusing argument I've seen for so many people to be "99.5%" that Scully will go - they can't be wrong and they just MUST have impeccable sources!

Really?

Let's just for a second consider what constitutes an impeccable source in this instance.

Who could be considered in a position to be such a source?

We'll list them:

- Scully

- Scully's management team

- Gubby Allen (or anyone else from GWS)

- Someone in the know at MFC

Anyone else?

So, let's go through them.

Scully: is desperately trying to divert attention and if he has signed, he's not showing it. Why he'd confirm it behind closed doors and fuel the speculation, is well beyond my reckoning.

Scully's Management Team: have Scully's best interests at heart, and if they are in any way professional, would keep their cards as close to their chest as Scully himself does. Why they'd tell a bottom-feeder like Stevens does not compute.

Gubby Allen: it is in his interest to lie about this very fact. If Scully were signed, he'd likely move on to making noise about another player to destabilize their position with their current club. Remember, he whispers things in hallways and says very little publicly himself, so he wears no blame with the target.

He just tells little untruths and keeps the media talking about GWS, all the while living in hope that he'll land a big fish.

MFC: if we KNOW he is going, it is in our interests to very very publicly campaign for better compensation. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I think our current approach shows clear optimism that he will stay. It in no way helps us for people at the top to know he is going and pretend they don't.

Stevens or Schwarz would be the last people anyone would confide in if they knew.

So.............. which of the above is Mark Stevens' impeccable source?

And can somebody please explain to me why he should believe what they say??

Interesting slant on each of the possible sources. I'll critique them.

1. Scully: is desperately trying to divert attention and if he has signed, he's not showing it. Why he'd confirm it behind closed doors and fuel the speculation, is well beyond my reckoning.

At his press conference he said the the club would the first to know if he decided to go. Quite respectful I would have thought and just being true to his word.

Scully's Management Team: have Scully's best interests at heart, and if they are in any way professional, would keep their cards as close to their chest as Scully himself does. Why they'd tell a bottom-feeder like Stevens does not compute.

A silly judgement call on Stevens based on what? This "all journalists are scum" view is flat out wrong. A lot of journos get a lot right, a lot of the time.

Gubby Allen: it is in his interest to lie about this very fact. If Scully were signed, he'd likely move on to making noise about another player to destabilize their position with their current club. Remember, he whispers things in hallways and says very little publicly himself, so he wears no blame with the target. He just tells little untruths and keeps the media talking about GWS, all the while living in hope that he'll land a big fish.

Yes we all know, Gubby Allen is the Big Bad Wolf. Problem is, when you've already got an industry wide reputation for subterfuge like he has, no-one's going to put much stock into what you have to say.

MFC: if we KNOW he is going, it is in our interests to very very publicly campaign for better compensation. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I think our current approach shows clear optimism that he will stay. It in no way helps us for people at the top to know he is going and pretend they don't.

Stevens or Schwarz would be the last people anyone would confide in if they knew.

It can be said that we are publicly campaigning for better compensation but doing it by proxy through people like Stevens (Heraldsun and Triple M) and Schwarz (SEN and Foxtel). Cam Schwab is never going to do it himself because he knows there will be an embarrassing supporter backlash and calls for the club not to play Scully for the rest of the year, which is not in our interest.

Anyway, I think this is just an interesting exercise in how one can slant and interpret any theory to suit their own view.

Congrats on your 1000th post by the way Artie.

[Mac7 309]

As a disclaimer to the below comment I will suggest it not only about money for many players

Having said that .......

Please enlighten me on exactly how you have reached your conclusion above ?

Kreuzer may be better off, playing in a better side, playing in a finals side, playing closer to home, better culture etc but I completely reject the premise that he will be better off financially - the reported money some of the players are being offered will mean that there is no way over the length of their careers that the total payment by GWS would drop below what their original club could pay.

The only carrot GWS does have is the players over the term of their career will be better off financially at GWS.

I can only speak of the Victorian based clubs that I am aware of and I can tell you that the opportunities that players get to invest / venture into a whole range of business interests is astounding. Traditional Victorian clubs have life long die hard supporters and in particular board members in the corporate world that willing to provide players massive incentives and opportunities.

I know for a fact that players from some clubs do not require bank loans when investing in properties or business ventures.

There are a lot of influential people in Melbourne that are more than happy to provide huge amounts assistance to their football club. I'm not sure how many opportunities like this a player would get at GWS.

I am of the strong belief that $500K a year invested with some of the most astute business people in the country will have far greater financial reward across a lifetime than one large hit of say $3-4M. I am also of the strong belief that Melbourne are well across this and will be a key factor when it comes to Tom making a decision.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Interesting slant on each of the possible sources. I'll critique them.

1. Scully: is desperately trying to divert attention and if he has signed, he's not showing it. Why he'd confirm it behind closed doors and fuel the speculation, is well beyond my reckoning.

At his press conference he said the the club would the first to know if he decided to go. Quite respectful I would have thought and just being true to his word.

Doesn't explain why he'd disclose it to someone like Stevens or Schwarz.

He simply wouldn't, and nobody at the club would either.

Scully's Management Team: have Scully's best interests at heart, and if they are in any way professional, would keep their cards as close to their chest as Scully himself does. Why they'd tell a bottom-feeder like Stevens does not compute.

A silly judgement call on Stevens based on what? This "all journalists are scum" view is flat out wrong. A lot of journos get a lot right, a lot of the time.

You're focusing on the insult I used on Stevens? Hardly the point here.

In fact, a lot of journos don't get it right, but people often don't particularly care, or aren't smart enough to notice.

Still, Scully's management will look after his best interests and the last people they'd blab too would be another garden-variety journo like Stevens.

Gubby Allen: it is in his interest to lie about this very fact. If Scully were signed, he'd likely move on to making noise about another player to destabilize their position with their current club. Remember, he whispers things in hallways and says very little publicly himself, so he wears no blame with the target. He just tells little untruths and keeps the media talking about GWS, all the while living in hope that he'll land a big fish.

Yes we all know, Gubby Allen is the Big Bad Wolf. Problem is, when you've already got an industry wide reputation for subterfuge like he has, no-one's going to put much stock into what you have to say.

He's not the big bad wolf, but he will twist words and minds in an effort to achieve his aim, as anyone would do in his position.

No one will put much stock in what you say? How about "respected" Mike Sheahan?

Of course journalists are bursting at the seams to put stock in what he says.

Did you not hear Damien Barret after his Footy Show interview? Jeez, I wonder where he got those figures on Scully's hypothetical salary...

MFC: if we KNOW he is going, it is in our interests to very very publicly campaign for better compensation. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I think our current approach shows clear optimism that he will stay. It in no way helps us for people at the top to know he is going and pretend they don't.

Stevens or Schwarz would be the last people anyone would confide in if they knew.

It can be said that we are publicly campaigning for better compensation but doing it by proxy through people like Stevens (Heraldsun and Triple M) and Schwarz (SEN and Foxtel). Cam Schwab is never going to do it himself because he knows there will be an embarrassing supporter backlash and calls for the club not to play Scully for the rest of the year, which is not in our interest.

The club wouldn't have released that info unless in a carefully orchestrated move to gain more compensation.

The club wouldn't just let it slip without being in control of the way this information was used, to gain some sort of benefit.

Stevens and Schwarz are some of the last people you'd go to - nobody takes them seriously and they've done nothing to help our cause.

Of course Schwab wouldn't make any public statements himself, but a better effort and more noise would've been made.

It's also contrary to all our other efforts on this front.

Anyway, I think this is just an interesting exercise in how one can slant and interpret any theory to suit their own view.

Congrats on your 1000th post by the way Artie.

I don't think you've made one single good point above.

Nothing personal, just not even slightly moved by any of them.

Cheers.

Many more to come.

[Deeflated 0]

Tom Scully chooses cash over Dees

FINALLY, the secret is officially out.

Melbourne mercenary Tom Scully quietly, and without any public fanfare, accepted upwards of an extra $3 million over five years to betray his beloved Melbourne Demons.

GWS football boss Graeme Allan confirmed on 3AW on Saturday that he made a play for Scully and that it was quickly accepted.

Allan, of course, wasn't about offer numbers to the inquisitive radio box, but it isn't too difficult to determine a ball-park figure.

Clearly, the numbers are titillating, yet the fact the 20-year-old has turned his back on Melbourne is only part of the story.

Scullys love of the green stuff over loyalty, in an age of obscene cash for players yet to prove themselves, makes Scully the pin-up child for disloyalty.

Melbourne fans should never, ever, forget Scully’s decision.

Two sources said Scully accepted between three and four times more of what he could earn per season at Melbourne.

The figure is as an estimate based on figures bandied about for other GWS targets, Matherw Kreuzer ($1 million per year) and Callan Ward ($700,000 per year) and what Scully, as one of the league's best midfielders, could expect in relation.

Still being relatively young, his contract at Melbourne next year would have been in the vicinity of $300,000-$350,000.

Greater Western Sydney's interest in Scully was first mentioned in an interview with colleague Mike Sheahan during the pre-season.

Three weeks ago, speculation - driven by SENs David Swartz - had it that Scully had been offered an ''Ablett-like'' contract from GWS.

Read for yourselves, just substitute Kreuzer with Scully.

HeraldSun Article

A thread like this deserves a post like this.

[rpfc 27,531]

Gubby Allen: it is in his interest to lie about this very fact. If Scully were signed, he'd likely move on to making noise about another player to destabilize their position with their current club. Remember, he whispers things in hallways and says very little publicly himself, so he wears no blame with the target. He just tells little untruths and keeps the media talking about GWS, all the while living in hope that he'll land a big fish.

Yes we all know, Gubby Allen is the Big Bad Wolf. Problem is, when you've already got an industry wide reputation for subterfuge like he has, no-one's going to put much stock into what you have to say.

This is where you are showing your naivete when it comes to footy 'journalism.'

There are no repercussions for journalists getting things wrong.

There are no repercussions for their sources.

These guys go to the same well.

Sheahan is friends with Allan - Allan burnt him with Buckley lies, as Mike has admitted.

Who do you think Sheahan is asking for information from? He can't choose who the Football Director is at GWS - he has gone back to the Allan well.

Where do people think all these rumours come from?

And do you really believe, RR, that the journos give a crap that Allan has a reputation? Some of them don't even know about the business with Buckley and the unethical bullsh!t he engaged in.

[Real Demon 232]

Tom Scully chooses cash over Dees

FINALLY, the secret is officially out.

Melbourne mercenary Tom Scully quietly, and without any public fanfare, accepted upwards of an extra $3 million over five years to betray his beloved Melbourne Demons.

GWS football boss Graeme Allan confirmed on 3AW on Saturday that he made a play for Scully and that it was quickly accepted.

Allan, of course, wasn't about offer numbers to the inquisitive radio box, but it isn't too difficult to determine a ball-park figure.

Clearly, the numbers are titillating, yet the fact the 20-year-old has turned his back on Melbourne is only part of the story.

Scullys love of the green stuff over loyalty, in an age of obscene cash for players yet to prove themselves, makes Scully the pin-up child for disloyalty.

Melbourne fans should never, ever, forget Scully’s decision.

Two sources said Scully accepted between three and four times more of what he could earn per season at Melbourne.

The figure is as an estimate based on figures bandied about for other GWS targets, Matherw Kreuzer ($1 million per year) and Callan Ward ($700,000 per year) and what Scully, as one of the league's best midfielders, could expect in relation.

Still being relatively young, his contract at Melbourne next year would have been in the vicinity of $300,000-$350,000.

Greater Western Sydney's interest in Scully was first mentioned in an interview with colleague Mike Sheahan during the pre-season.

Three weeks ago, speculation - driven by SENs David Swartz - had it that Scully had been offered an ''Ablett-like'' contract from GWS.

Read for yourselves, just substitute Kreuzer with Scully.

HeraldSun Article

A thread like this deserves a post like this.

Well done Blues, and well done Matthew Kreuzer.

A great result for them.

[Range Rover 1,935]

This is where you are showing your naivete when it comes to footy 'journalism.'

There's a difference between someone saying "I've heard noises" and "I'm certain". Naivete works both ways. You could be accused of the same.

There are no repercussions for journalists getting things wrong.

Yes there are. They lose credibility.

There are no repercussions for their sources.

Yes there are. They become distrusted.

These guys go to the same well.

Not necessarily.

Sheahan is friends with Allan - Allan burnt him with Buckley lies, as Mike has admitted.

Who do you think Sheahan is asking for information from? He can't choose who the Football Director is at GWS - he has gone back to the Allan well.

I don't know about Sheehan. I haven't heard him go on the record with any conviction the way Schwarz and Stevens have.

Where do people think all these rumours come from?

Any number of sources. My guess is that Scully passed on his decision to the club, who in turn have informed a few select journos in order to "get the truth out".

And do you really believe, RR, that the journos give a crap that Allan has a reputation? Some of them don't even know about the business with Buckley and the unethical bullsh!t he engaged in.

Yes I think some of them would steer clear given his form as a distributor of lies. Anyone who says they're "certain" based on a phone call from Gubby Allen is an outright mug.

You think the Ox and Stevens are just that. I don't.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Range Rover

[sylvinator 96]

a MUST READ!:

http://thewhitemaggot.com/2011/07/11/damien-barrett-99-78653-sure-scully-to-sign-with-gws/

[Guest hangon007]

a MUST READ!:

http://thewhitemaggot.com/2011/07/11/damien-barrett-99-78653-sure-scully-to-sign-with-gws/

hahaha ... well done. The "purple headed warrior" strikes again.

[ox_5 163]

Scully's Management Team: have Scully's best interests at heart, and if they are in any way professional, would keep their cards as close to their chest as Scully himself does. Why they'd tell a bottom-feeder like Stevens does not compute.

A silly judgement call on Stevens based on what? This "all journalists are scum" view is flat out wrong. A lot of journos get a lot right, a lot of the time.

Stevens is definitely not one of the journos who get a lot right, a lot of the time.

He is one of the least-informed in the business, and if you read any of his articles they very rarely bring up new information, just re-stating rumours and innuendo from other articles, radio discussions from the weekend, and quite regularly, twitter.

[nutbean 8,837]

I can only speak of the Victorian based clubs that I am aware of and I can tell you that the opportunities that players get to invest / venture into a whole range of business interests is astounding. Traditional Victorian clubs have life long die hard supporters and in particular board members in the corporate world that willing to provide players massive incentives and opportunities.

I know for a fact that players from some clubs do not require bank loans when investing in properties or business ventures.

There are a lot of influential people in Melbourne that are more than happy to provide huge amounts assistance to their football club. I'm not sure how many opportunities like this a player would get at GWS.

I am of the strong belief that $500K a year invested with some of the most astute business people in the country will have far greater financial reward across a lifetime than one large hit of say $3-4M. I am also of the strong belief that Melbourne are well across this and will be a key factor when it comes to Tom making a decision.

I agree that there will be lots of sweeteners for Scully at the MFC and I am hoping that there will be some sort of Judd ambassadorship somewhere in the offing. I still dont believe any club will match whats put on the table over the lifetime of a footballer that GWS and GC17 can offer because they have THAT much more to play with in the first two years where they get more money in the cap and dont have pay nearly as much out as a disproportionate % of their lists are draftees on low fixed salaries for two years. I think someone mentioned Connolly on here and also the dogs mentioned that they cannot complete on financials but hope to sell the bigger picture.

It is my hope that the differential is not so great to become irresistable. But I have little doubt that there will be a $ gap that all footballers who are offered a GWS/GC17 contract must consider. I believe this is a given.

[Guest hangon007]

On the Couch just made a announcement via Mike Sheenan ...

Good news ... Scully has signed nothing.

Bad news ... GWS offer has now been tabled.

[brendan 3,390]

yes article in tommorows herald sun should be an interesting read apparently GWS have offered 1million a year dees have offered 600k a year ball is now officially in toms court

[mattb 0]

geee 1m a year or 600k i know what i'd be taking....

[Wolfmother 182]

Its funny to look at Mike Sheehan who is certain that Scully has already signed but prepared to write an article their has now been an offer tabled.

GWS - 1 mil a year for 5

MFC - 600K

according to the program, Sheehan states MFC have tabled an offer (which is interesting that one hasn;t been done before) and Scully's management has gone to GWS we have heard you are interested what are you prepared to offer.

A few things to note:

* Seems to take away the 'I'll wait to the end of the season to discuss' ( I wonder if MFC offer has brought it forward)

* Maybe he hasn;t had the offer like many of insinuated or maybe this is a media cloud to say he only agreed at the end of the season and didn;t lie and it has really been locked up like Ox and Stevens have conveyed recently

* Also takes away that MFC have tabled their best offer at the start of the year and their was no movement

Edited July 11, 2011 by Wolfmother

[ox_5 163]

Did they mention what the Melbourne offer was? I was watching and didn't hear a figure mentioned.

[brendan 3,390]

yes its gonna be a massive decision 4 tom i guess the good part of it all is that he has not signed anything so he is still a chance to stay, but geez its almost double the money so its gonna be tough to knock back

[Jaded No More 58,278]

geee 1m a year or 600k i know what i'd be taking....

Really depends what additional revenue we can generate for Tom by being a player of a Victorian team, with very well connected people in high places.

[brendan 3,390]

Did they mention what the Melbourne offer was? I was watching and didn't hear a figure mentioned.

was mentioned after the next add break

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Really depends what additional revenue we can generate for Tom by being a player of a Victorian team, with very well connected people in high places.

Agree. The MFC must have some cards here, particularly given that GWS can't seem to attract any decent corporate support (the AFL aside).

And, one would think, the GWS never will - certainly not in the timeframe that may suit a young player thinking about his career in 6 or so years from now.

[Guest 36DD]

geee 1m a year or 600k i know what i'd be taking....

Research has been conducted which has found that any additional money above earnings of $80,000 pa has absolutely no impact on ones happiness.

Edited July 11, 2011 by 36DD

[Captain Jack Jordan 32]

geee 1m a year or 600k i know what i'd be taking....

5- 10 years of eternal glory in Red and Blue?

[Jaded No More 58,278]

* Maybe he hasn;t had the offer like many of insinuated or maybe this is a media cloud to say he only agreed at the end of the season and didn;t lie and it has really been locked up like Ox and Stevens have conveyed recently

Are you insinuating that Scully has lied to you, the club and the general public?