On 09/06/2011 at 03:27, Artie Bucco said:

I just can't see where you're going with all this...

There doesn't seem to be a clear point that you are making.

If there is, please just sum it up in a sentence or 2?

You cant sum up a "science" in 2 sentences? We have moved on from a gambling process. Well some clubs have.

  On 09/06/2011 at 03:28, Artie Bucco said:

On Foxtel, I believe.

They were last year.

Cheers, i know the final is, wasnt sure about the rest of it.

Honestly, guys...

Jack Viney is probably at school on his iPhone thinking "what the hell are they talking about!"

"Tom Scully gets three threads a day, and my one thread hasn't gotten so off-track all you see is sparks and Tony Scott."

"When are they going to get back on track - discuss my fathers kicking skills or my height?!"

No, they are riddled with gibberish.

There are odd sentences here and there that are vague and it's not clear what you are referring to, so in trying to understand your point, it is frustrating.

You are the one who brought trades into it.

Still not sure what the relevance was.

It's a bit too early for us as supporters to assess who is better out of Lynch & Polec.

Recruiters who have watched them closely would have a much better idea.

Clearly Brisbane rated the players likely to be available at pick 5 much higher than those likely to be left at pick 10.

That's on their recruiters.

But this discussion was about the 4 x 17 year old player draft picks that GWS possesses and must trade to other teams.

I'm still not sure about your position on this, but you seem to think that GWS would want to NOT trade the picks that they can't use themselves, and this defies logic.

What they would receive in return greatly outweighs what they might possibly be able to gain by letting them go to waste.

Very early draft picks (and this is what they are) are highly valued in our game.

Whether our perception of the value of draft picks is right or wrong, the perception of draft picks in other sports aren't really relevant.

  On 09/06/2011 at 03:34, hangon007 said:

You cant sum up a "science" in 2 sentences? We have moved on from a gambling process. Well some clubs have.

MAKE A POINT INSTEAD OF RAMBLING GIBBERISH!

I'm not asking you to define a "science".

You brought up other clubs "gambling" and "hedging bets" and I'm still trying to figure out where you're going with it.

Unfortunately, I think this is all well over your head.

Personally, I enjoy the analysis of these complexities and nuances of the drafting / trading process.

I find it rather easy to get my head around though, so I dont understand what angle you are coming from on this.

  On 09/06/2011 at 03:44, Artie Bucco said:

Clearly Brisbane rated the players likely to be available at pick 5 much higher than those likely to be left at pick 10.

That's on their recruiters.

Clearly ... Clearly Gold Coast didn't. Over value "perceived" early draft pick at your peril.

  On 09/06/2011 at 03:44, Artie Bucco said:

Whether our perception of the value of draft picks is right or wrong, the perception of draft picks in other sports aren't really relevant.

Quite appropriate in a week our opposition are sending players to Arizona for altitude training. Wonder where they got that idea from?

  On 09/06/2011 at 03:44, Artie Bucco said:

I'm still not sure about your position on this, but you seem to think that GWS would want to NOT trade the picks that they can't use themselves, and this defies logic.

What they would receive in return greatly outweighs what they might possibly be able to gain by letting them go to waste.

No I said they would or should consider using them on players they never have the ability to access. Hence, not reducing the talent pool available to them.

What they may also receive in return is a bullet in the foot.

To sum it up. My point is ... I get frustrated too with all these people coming to this forum and want to blame the coach nearly on a weekly basis when we lose.

IMHO premierships are vastly, vastly determined by what you do at the trade & the draft table. If you want to win a premiership invest more money in your football department, especially in your recruitment department & trading techniques. Draft & trade with knowledge gained overseas from similar drafting & trading process ... the sport in itself is irrelevant.

But I too enjoyed the discussion. See you at the footy.

Go Dees

PS One of our other learned friends love quotes ... so As Kerry Packer once said ... "You only ever get 1 Alan Bond in your life." You just have to recognise it when he comes along.

  On 09/06/2011 at 05:03, hangon007 said:

Quite appropriate in a week our opposition are sending players to Arizona for altitude training. Wonder where they got that idea from?

Methods for recovery are completely different from methods for assessing talent.

Different sports mean different areas to assess, different physical development, different rates of development.

American sports usually involve a period at college, meaning the draft pool is more mature.

AFL is sport in which tasks are less specialised than in NFL. Players must be versatile & capable in pretty much every aspect of the game.

There are also differences between AFL & NBA, in that there are fewer players in the field of play.

It is much harder to find and AFL player that can have the influence that an NBA player can have on a match.

These players are often more obvious at a young age.

The draft system and development methods are different.

There are so many vast differences, that to attempt a comparison is folly.

You're trying to draw linkages where there are none.

  On 09/06/2011 at 05:03, hangon007 said:

Quite appropriate in a week our opposition are sending players to Arizona for altitude training. Wonder where they got that idea from?

Those kenyan runners?

  On 09/06/2011 at 06:43, Artie Bucco said:

Methods for recovery are completely different from methods for assessing talent.

Different sports mean different areas to assess, different physical development, different rates of development.

American sports usually involve a period at college, meaning the draft pool is more mature.

AFL is sport in which tasks are less specialised than in NFL. Players must be versatile & capable in pretty much every aspect of the game.

There are also differences between AFL & NBA, in that there are fewer players in the field of play.

It is much harder to find and AFL player that can have the influence that an NBA player can have on a match.

These players are often more obvious at a young age.

The draft system and development methods are different.

There are so many vast differences, that to attempt a comparison is folly.

You're trying to draw linkages where there are none.

Very good points. No problems. I hear what you are saying.

Sorry ... Im off to ozkick now kids are learning how to zone & catch the footy tonight. Oh yes and if we have time we will teach them some modified theories on pass protection & flooding.

All the best

PS On the field off the field the game is moving forward.

Moving back on topic, is anyone going to Visy Park tomorrow to watch Jack in action?

Vic Metro

Backs A. Tomlison (28) B. Darrou (37) B. Ellis (32)

Half Backs L. Plowman (25) M. Talia (27) D. Tyson (29)

Centres L. Sumner (5) T. Greene (2) H. Crozier (15)

Half Forwards X. Richards (26) T. Curran (16) D. Markworth (21)

Forwards M. Bussey (13) J. Patton (38) T. Totevski (6)

Followers B. Longer (40) A. Greenwood (3) J. Viney (7)

Interchange A. Kennedy (4) A. Brown (12) H. Hunter (19) J. Newnes (11)

Tweet from Kevin Sheehan the Under 18s:-

  Quote

Jack Viney son of Todd is a tough as nails inside lefty ; working into the game nicely to half time #nabaflu18s

Jack Viney has 13 disposals up to 3 qtr time

  On 11/06/2011 at 06:23, dazzledavey36 said:

Jack Viney has 13 disposals up to 3 qtr time

Is that good?

I'm more interested in how many people he has killed in tackles...

Jack Viney's match stats were 11 kicks 6 handballs 4 marks 2 hitouts (?) 7 tackles 3 frees for and 0 against.

On paper that's a fair return for a bottom age player. From what I've been told, it's about on par with or better than the performances of Scully and Gysberts when they were bottom aged players at the championships two years ago.

It should be added that Jack has played a limited amount of competitive footy this year with injuries and AIS travel commitments dominating his year to date.

Was limited to 50% match time by the coaches, it appeared. Certainly spent a lot of time on the pine.

  On 11/06/2011 at 08:07, Axis of Bob said:

Was limited to 50% match time by the coaches, it appeared. Certainly spent a lot of time on the pine.

Thanks Bob - makes those stats look even better!

Will be a gun, but it was an ordinary game from him as reported to me by someone who was there.

Started slowly but ended up with 17 Touches and 5 clearances.

Would not say his game was ordinary at all. Viney was instrumental in getting Metro going after 1/2 time as Qld kept with them for the first half at the stoppages, being down by 5 points. His effort for the first 5 minutes or so of the 3rd was super impressive.

I think the point is that his previous form has set the bar a bit higher.

It can only be a good thing.

Also need to remember that these games are shorter quarters as well.

  On 11/06/2011 at 08:51, Hannabal said:

Will be a gun, but it was an ordinary game from him as reported to me by someone who was there.

Your informant must be a harsh judge because he was named in Vic Metro's official best list on the AFL site:-

Vic Metro 4.4 6.8 11.12 17.17 (119)

Queensland 2.1 5.2 5.4 5.4 (34)

GOALS

Vic Metro: J Patton 6, T Curran 2, T Greene, L Sumner, T Totevski, H Crozier, D Markworth, D Tyson, B Ellis, S Frost, B Longer


Queensland: J Starcevich 2, L Russ, J Rolfe, A Sexton



BEST


Vic Metro: J Patton, B Longer, T Greene, J Viney, T Totevski, L Sumner

Queensland: R Newell, J Allen, A Boston, J Starcevich, J Wagner, T Fields

  On 11/06/2011 at 09:17, FC Melbourne said:

Started slowly but ended up with 17 Touches and 5 clearances.

Would not say his game was ordinary at all. Viney was instrumental in getting Metro going after 1/2 time as Qld kept with them for the first half at the stoppages, being down by 5 points. His effort for the first 5 minutes or so of the 3rd was super impressive.

Good summary of what took place but have to admit I thought his first half was just but showed great leadership and ability in last half.