I see in the news tonight that the Western Bulldogs have instructed Brian Lake to return to the VFL to find form and match fitness after a couple of bad games following his return from hip and knee surgery. I really like this from the Bulldogs. Lake is an AA defender but must earn his place and prove his worth, even though he has done exactly that countless times in the past. I am sure that Scully and McKenzie will be brought back via the VFL.

My question is, with all that is going on for the Dees at present, could this strong earn-your-place principle be shown, with Frawley or Morton being asked to follow this process?

And further, should the same line be laid down to Davey and Sylvia?

I know we can't ask four of these players to prove themselves in the VFL at the same time, but it must be a consideration. My only hesitation is that we are sitting on 2 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses and it might be a bit early to be this strong.

Thoughts?

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I see in the news tonight that the Western Bulldogs have instructed Brian Lake to return to the VFL to find form and match fitness after a couple of bad games following his return from hip and knee surgery. I really like this from the Bulldogs. Lake is an AA defender but must earn his place and prove his worth, even though he has done exactly that countless times in the past. I am sure that Scully and McKenzie will be brought back via the VFL.

My question is, with all that is going on for the Dees at present, could this strong earn-your-place principle be shown, with Frawley or Morton being asked to follow this process?

And further, should the same line be laid down to Davey and Sylvia?

I know we can't ask four of these players to prove themselves in the VFL at the same time, but it must be a consideration. My only hesitation is that we are sitting on 2 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses and it might be a bit early to be this strong.

Thoughts?

This is the advantage of the Sub: rule, for regualar senior players like Davey. However I don't think you drop a leadership group player easily. Sylvia I think is frustration of not meeting his lofty expectations. Maybe Davey too. The loss of experience, multiplied by the higher hopes of our senior group, I think it's testing all of them, except the Russian who seems to be more realistic.

for Lake, his issues of fitness wouldn't suit the sub spot.

Well if we go down that path you've gotta say the same for Green as well. What about Jurrah or Wona? I understand the point, and I actually do agree that you shouldn't select players on reputation but select them on form, however where do you stop with our side at the moment. I feel it is unfair to single out Morton or Davey, when Green has been absoutely $h!te (leadership and form wise). That said, a statement does need to be made, I am just not sure how you make it fair when rubbish form is virtually club wide.

This is the advantage of the Sub: rule, for regualar senior players like Davey. However I don't think you drop a leadership group player easily. Sylvia I think is frustration of not meeting his lofty expectations. Maybe Davey too. The loss of experience, multiplied by the higher hopes of our senior group, I think it's testing all of them, except the Russian who seems to be more realistic.

for Lake, his issues of fitness wouldn't suit the sub spot.

You have hit the main point in question right on the head, Deeluded. If some of the leadership group are consistently among the worst players, when is the right time to make a strong stance on ensuring that EVERY player must earn their place, including the leaders? Is it after 6 rounds, 8, 10??? Is it always wrong to drop your skipper ( I am not advocating this by the way. A lot more has to go wrong before a captain can be dropped).

Coaches can be sacked, so why can't leaders be dropped?

Personally, I don't think you drop a leader on form only, but leadership is influence and if their lack of intensity and grunt is a poor influence on the others in the 22, then combined with poor form this surely brings their place in the starting 22 into question.

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Its a game that cannot afford leaders who dont play. We need players who can also lead. This is not the united nations, it is a football team. If they are not contributing to the team result, real leaders would drop themselves.

Very different situation - Lake had an injury and a reduced (or non-existant) pre-season.

The only Dees who this might apply to would be Frawley or perhaps Morton (though Morton was only a finger, so presumably he was able to keep up his general fitness, if not his match fitness).

I don't necessarily agree with the notion of "finding form" in the VFL, but I will get behind a statement of "you're not pulling your weight and there are 20+ kids on the list who would give their right arm for your spot in the side, earn a place or move aside and see if they can do better." Being dropped is a punishment for not putting in and not performing at the required standard. Everything else is just window dressing to make it look better. I'd prefer them to call a spade a spade and say openly that these players are being dropped because they are not performing.

I see in the news tonight that the Western Bulldogs have instructed Brian Lake to return to the VFL to find form and match fitness after a couple of bad games following his return from hip and knee surgery. I really like this from the Bulldogs. Lake is an AA defender but must earn his place and prove his worth, even though he has done exactly that countless times in the past. I am sure that Scully and McKenzie will be brought back via the VFL.

My question is, with all that is going on for the Dees at present, could this strong earn-your-place principle be shown, with Frawley or Morton being asked to follow this process?

And further, should the same line be laid down to Davey and Sylvia?

I know we can't ask four of these players to prove themselves in the VFL at the same time, but it must be a consideration. My only hesitation is that we are sitting on 2 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses and it might be a bit early to be this strong.

Thoughts?

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Although Sylvia's form has appeared somewhat up & down this year it should be noted that with (very) limited support from some of his teammates he is -

*1st in the league for inside 50's

*Equal 3rd in the league for goal assists

With the limited support that puts him in the elite category in my opinion.

When is he contracted to ?

Although Sylvia's form has appeared somewhat up & down this year it should be noted that with (very) limited support from some of his teammates he is -

*1st in the league for inside 50's

*Equal 3rd in the league for goal assists

With the limited support that puts him in the elite category in my opinion.

When is he contracted to ?

Excellent point. Whilst he is not at his best, and looking worse because the team is struggling, he is a galaxy away from being justifiably dropped. The idea is simply ridiculous, and reflects the number of desperate pseudo-remedies that are spouted on demonland. It is possible to have passion and logic live together.

Excellent point. Whilst he is not at his best, and looking worse because the team is struggling, he is a galaxy away from being justifiably dropped. The idea is simply ridiculous, and reflects the number of desperate pseudo-remedies that are spouted on demonland. It is possible to have passion and logic live together.

It's times like these that we should be analysing our future leaders.

The ones that stand up when the chips are down.

*Sylvia

*Moloney

*Trengove

*Grimes

*Jones

These players are also the top 5 disposal getters so far this year.

Does something stand out here ?

Tough and uncompromising are qualities that these players have.

It's times like these that we should be analysing our future leaders.

The ones that stand up when the chips are down.

*Sylvia

*Moloney

*Trengove

*Grimes

*Jones

These players are also the top 5 disposal getters so far this year.

Does something stand out here ?

Tough and uncompromising are qualities that these players have.

Garbage, while Trengove and Grimes will get better as they get older and will show there true class, Moloney and Jones are C graders. Moloney too often looks good against poor opposition as another poster described him "a flat track bully" When the chips have been down against the Hawks and the WCE, Moloney and Jones are out of their depth.

Sylvia ...elite??? Spare me. Still living off his potential and producing cameos. Yet to see a breakout year from this player.

As for Lake, people seem to forget that he has had shoulder hip and knee surgery over the off season that has killed his pre season. While it does not excuse any alleged attitude issues, he is definitely underdone coming into this season.

Garbage, while Trengove and Grimes will get better as they get older and will show there true class, Moloney and Jones are C graders. Moloney too often looks good against poor opposition as another poster described him "a flat track bully" When the chips have been down against the Hawks and the WCE, Moloney and Jones are out of their depth.

Sylvia ...elite??? Spare me. Still living off his potential and producing cameos. Yet to see a breakout year from this player.

As for Lake, people seem to forget that he has had shoulder hip and knee surgery over the off season that has killed his pre season. While it does not excuse any alleged attitude issues, he is definitely underdone coming into this season.

Settle down RR....

Who would you suggest as 'future' leaders ???

Right now ???

Try it. It's not very easy is it...

Therein' lies the problem you speak of.

Moloney and Jones are C graders. Moloney too often looks good against poor opposition as another poster described him "a flat track bully" When the chips have been down against the Hawks and the WCE, Moloney and Jones are out of their depth.

Sylvia ...elite??? Spare me. Still living off his potential and producing cameos. Yet to see a breakout year from this player.

Do you classify yourself as a Demons supporter or critic? Spare me the doom and gloom please!

While Beamer, Jones and even Sylvia may not be the most highly skilled players at the club they are clearly some of the more important players in our side and will be for another couple of seasons yet - Suck it up!

Do you classify yourself as a Demons supporter or critic? Spare me the doom and gloom please!

Good Luck DemonWA,

he has some truth in what he says or many people on here wouldn't bring up moloney, jones and gone missin threads.....

they play inconsistent football, as does Davey and they are too experienced to do this.

Harden up!

he has some truth in what he says or many people on here wouldn't bring up moloney, jones and gone missin threads.....

they play inconsistent football, as does Davey and they are too experienced to do this.

Harden up!

Theyre far from perfect, but they wear the red and blue - I'm sick of people sooking about these players. They're unlikley to br dropped and will continue to be melbourne listed players for a few more years at least. IMO Either support them or shut the f#ck up!

You have hit the main point in question right on the head, Deeluded. If some of the leadership group are consistently among the worst players, when is the right time to make a strong stance on ensuring that EVERY player must earn their place, including the leaders? Is it after 6 rounds, 8, 10??? Is it always wrong to drop your skipper ( I am not advocating this by the way. A lot more has to go wrong before a captain can be dropped).

Coaches can be sacked, so why can't leaders be dropped?

Personally, I don't think you drop a leader on form only, but leadership is influence and if their lack of intensity and grunt is a poor influence on the others in the 22, then combined with poor form this surely brings their place in the starting 22 into question.

I don't look for blame. It's not something to be angry about. Anger makes people look to blame something and to punish it.

I don't think there's poor attitude but rather the loss of experience coupled to the extra new players is currently too much for our senior players to lift the side, as well as grow their leadership abilities a the same time. The russian is going well because he's just focusing on His game.

Beamer was caught trying to alleviate his pressures at the Bar. Green seems to have gone into his shell. Sylvia, the youngest of the New breed leaders looks to be crushed under the weight, with the other leaders folding. Davey looks like he wants to find a cave to hide in.

IMO the answer Is NOT in punishment for them, but understanding what is likely happening... Lack of experienced support at this time. We are asking More than they can give, at this moment. The answer is @ the selection table. Bring in @ least 2 extra experienced players to help settle the side. Drop 2 or more soft players and make a statement.

I would not be dropping any of our leaders/senior players. The problem I have with many of our leaders is there body language at times. The more senior players should be putting a bigger effort into pumping up the side when onfield. Brent Maloney is probably the only exeption. Sylvia is probably the worst. He is often seen with his head down and hands on hips. It was noticable a few times on Thursday.

Settle down RR....

Who would you suggest as 'future' leaders ???

Right now ???

Try it. It's not very easy is it...

Therein' lies the problem you speak of.

Naming future leaders is easy.

Grimes, Trengove, Scully, Watts .....

I just have trouble naming the true current leaders.

Do you classify yourself as a Demons supporter or critic? Spare me the doom and gloom please!

A Demon realist.

While Beamer, Jones and even Sylvia may not be the most highly skilled players at the club they are clearly some of the more important players in our side and will be for another couple of seasons yet - Suck it up!

While they are the most important players in the side (I question the criteria) we will only have pretensions of being a top side.

While they are the most important players in the side (I question the criteria) we will only have pretensions of being a top side.

Thats correct - we are not a top side.