Mick Malthouse

[The Chazz 4,077]

* 1985 and 1991 Players Association Coach of the Year - 1985 his team finished 3rd, 1991 he was runner up - team got flogged in the GF.

* 1991 Inaugural AFL Coach of the Year - See above

* 1992 Institute of Sport Coach of the Year [1] - What is this award? Do they still have it?

* Richmond premiership player 1980 - Relevant?

* West Coast premiership coach 1992 and 1994 - Had a great list and they put it together in those 2 seasons. Took 9 seasons to get his first flag

* 2008 International Rules Series Coach - Garry Lyon has done this

* 2010 International Rules Series Coach - see above

* 2010 AFLCA Coach of the Year - His team won the flag after he has been in charge for 10 years

* Collingwood premiership coach 2010 - see above

* 2nd longest serving coach of the Collingwood FC behind Jock McHale - Relevant?

* 2nd (all time) most games coached at AFL/VFL level. - Relevant?

* 3rd most wins as coach (all time). - So he should, he's been coaching for 27 years!

The proof I wanted however, and sorry for the misunderstanding, what makes him an available coach. What makes him more available than Thompson?

I'm not doubting that Malthouse is a very, very good coach. You, and you're not alone, don't think Bailey is a very very good coach. But I'm quite sure that in 2006, you would've thought Thompson was an ordinary coach.

[hardtack 10,683]

* Collingwood premiership coach 2010

* 2nd longest serving coach of the Collingwood FC behind Jock McHale.

So how many years was he coaching Collingwood prior to the Premiership? You have to realise he will be coming into a far less experienced and much younger playing group than he currently has, then you have to allow time for him to gain the players' trust and for the players to adapt to his style of coaching and then to his game plan (whatever that may be)... that completely moves our premiership window and the fact remains that we are not guaranteed any more success than we might enjoy under Bailey... I'm perfectly happy to let Bailey continue with the development of the list he has built.

[Range Rover 1,935]

* 1985 and 1991 Players Association Coach of the Year - 1985 his team finished 3rd, 1991 he was runner up - team got flogged in the GF.

* 1991 Inaugural AFL Coach of the Year - See above

* 1992 Institute of Sport Coach of the Year [1] - What is this award? Do they still have it?

* Richmond premiership player 1980 - Relevant?

* West Coast premiership coach 1992 and 1994 - Had a great list and they put it together in those 2 seasons. Took 9 seasons to get his first flag

* 2008 International Rules Series Coach - Garry Lyon has done this

* 2010 International Rules Series Coach - see above

* 2010 AFLCA Coach of the Year - His team won the flag after he has been in charge for 10 years

* Collingwood premiership coach 2010 - see above

* 2nd longest serving coach of the Collingwood FC behind Jock McHale - Relevant?

* 2nd (all time) most games coached at AFL/VFL level. - Relevant?

* 3rd most wins as coach (all time). - So he should, he's been coaching for 27 years!

The proof I wanted however, and sorry for the misunderstanding, what makes him an available coach. What makes him more available than Thompson?

I'm not doubting that Malthouse is a very, very good coach. You, and you're not alone, don't think Bailey is a very very good coach. But I'm quite sure that in 2006, you would've thought Thompson was an ordinary coach.

So it's a question of is very very good versus might become very very good ...

Which sounds more risky to you?

Edited April 14, 2011 by Range Rover

[old55 23,794]

So how many years was he coaching Collingwood prior to the Premiership? You have to realise he will be coming into a far less experienced and much younger playing group than he currently has, then you have to allow time for him to gain the players' trust and for the players to adapt to his style of coaching and then to his game plan (whatever that may be)... that completely moves our premiership window and the fact remains that we are not guaranteed any more success than we might enjoy under Bailey... I'm perfectly happy to let Bailey continue with the development of the list he has built.

He got Collingwood up pretty quickly in 2002-3, but for lack of even talent he would've won a flag then - that's not a problem he'll have at Melboutrne

[dee-luded 2,959]

Bomber = 2 in 10years (61% winning record). Think over the past 10 years, he has been a better coach than Malthouse.

Are you talking about Malcolm Blight? Just kidding! But seriously, who are you talking about that's commentating?

No, I was adding another name into the mix of what I think is kneejerk reactionary thread about our current coach. It just seems an air of desperation from some supporters, trying to latch onto anything that comes past, like a moray eel that hasn't had a feed for a month.

We are on a solid framework to build this club over a thought out structure and planned for timeframe. Some are panicking, their desire & competativeness is getting in the way of the simple build for quality.

Like a boxing day sale @ 6.00am doors opening.

Edited April 14, 2011 by dee-luded

[The Chazz 4,077]

So it's a question of is very very good versus might become very very good ...

Which sounds more risky to you?

What's the risk involved with keeping Bailey?

We recruited someone as a manager, he has come in and made drastic changes, got rid of dead wood which some would agree needed to be removed. He has drafted a group of employees that are of the highest quality, and now he has all the resources he needs to take this business forward, and just as he is starting to make progress, you think it's a risk and he should be replaced?

Good management would invest time in him to see if he has got what it takes. They gave him a 1 year extension, so obviously are monitorig his progress. And, providing he continues to achieve the targets set by the board, will continue to be given the opportunities.

However, you're wanting to get rid of him after he has had to put up with crap for the first 3 years for the club to make progress.

Thank Christ your not the boss.

[The Chazz 4,077]

He got Collingwood up pretty quickly in 2002-3, but for lack of even talent he would've won a flag then - that's not a problem he'll have at Melboutrne

I don't give a toss "if he had a bit more talent he would've won a premiership. That's absolute rubbish. Fact is, he didn't win a flag in that time.

And it just proves, it took him from 2004 to buold up enough talent to finally win one. Bailey has had to do that since he started, he didn't have the luxury of inheriting a side with a Nathan Buckley playing.

You're right, at the start of season 2012 or 2013, whatever coach, Bailey or not, will have a list of quality players to work with. Give him a chance FFS.

[Range Rover 1,935]

What's the risk involved with keeping Bailey?

We recruited someone as a manager, he has come in and made drastic changes, got rid of dead wood which some would agree needed to be removed. He has drafted a group of employees that are of the highest quality, and now he has all the resources he needs to take this business forward, and just as he is starting to make progress, you think it's a risk and he should be replaced?

Good management would invest time in him to see if he has got what it takes. They gave him a 1 year extension, so obviously are monitorig his progress. And, providing he continues to achieve the targets set by the board, will continue to be given the opportunities.

However, you're wanting to get rid of him after he has had to put up with crap for the first 3 years for the club to make progress.

Thank Christ your not the boss.

Pulls out the old "thank God you're not in charge" chestnut. Come on, you're better than that ... hopefully.

The focus of the thread is about Mick Malthouse and what he could do for our club.

The risk with keeping Bailey is we miss the chance to secure this proven multiple premiership winning coach.

Pretty simple really, but hard for some to grasp it seems.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Pulls out the old "thank God you're not in charge" chestnut. Come on, you're better than that ... hopefully.

The focus of the thread is about Mick Malthouse and what he could do for our club.

The risk with keeping Bailey is we miss the chance to secure this proven multiple premiership winning coach.

Pretty simple really, but hard for some to grasp it seems.

Well, sorry, but that's how I feel (re the boss comment).

While it may be a simple thought in your mind, it is far from simple in my opinion. If you can assure me he will take us to a premiership within 2 years, I'll sign him now. You can't though. no more than I can aussre you that Bailey will do the same.

I'm still unsure how you can be so definite when you say we have got a chance to secure Malthouse. I have never seen it mentioned in any media source, or heard Malthouse talking about it, yet your comments are making it sound like he has give Cam Schwab his resume already.

If there is a change of coaches, then why wouldn't we want Thompson instead of Malthouse. Our game plan is similar to Geelong = less time for players to adapt, he has a proven record of taking a team with young stars to a premiership and maintained their dominance over a 4 or 5 year period.

So he's contracted to Essendon, isn't Malthouse contracted to Collingwood?

Edited April 14, 2011 by billy2803

[hardtack 10,683]

The risk with keeping Bailey is we miss the chance to secure this proven multiple premiership winning coach.

Pretty simple really, but hard for some to grasp it seems.

Yes, and I still recall many calling for the club to take Sheedy, when he was available

[Range Rover 1,935]

Well, sorry, but that's how I feel (re the boss comment).

While it may be a simple thought in your mind, it is far from simple in my opinion. If you can assure me he will take us to a premiership within 2 years, I'll sign him now. You can't though. no more than I can aussre you that Bailey will do the same.

I'm still unsure how you can be some definite when you say we have got a chance to secure Malthouse. I have never seen it mentioned in any media source, or heard Malthouse talking about it, yet your comments are making it sound like he has give Cam Schwab his resume already.

If there is a change of coaches, then why wouldn't we want Thompson instead of Malthouse. Our game plan is similar to Geelong = less time for players to adapt, he has a proven record of taking a team with young stars to a premiership and maintained their dominance over a 4 or 5 year period.

So he's contracted to Essendon, isn't Malthouse contracted to Collingwood?

- There are no guarantees in life, but in a two horse race are you going to back the 4-1 favourite or the 10-1 shot just because you are a part owner in it?

- It's all pure speculation at the moment. Matlhouse is contracted to Collingwood as their ambiguously titled "head of coaching" for the next three years after this season. That said, he has not ruled out coaching at another club again and has made noises in various media forums about still having the fire in the belly.

- Sure, Thompson would also be worth a look but for me Malthouse is the more enticing prospect.

[deeflog 679]

How about one of these Deeflog? Do you go to the footy and support the Demons with the dream of winning one of these?

thats exactly what i go to the footy to suuport the dees for, but would you like to go every week and sit through what sydney have giving us?

[The Chazz 4,077]

- There are no guarantees in life, but in a two horse race are you going to back the 4-1 favourite or the 10-1 shot just because you are a part owner in it?

- It's all pure speculation at the moment. Matlhouse is contracted to Collingwood as their ambiguously titled "head of coaching" for the next three years after this season. That said, he has not ruled out coaching at another club again and has made noises in various media forums about still having the fire in the belly.

- Sure, Thompson would also be worth a look but for me Malthouse is the more enticing prospect.

If it were a 2 horse race and the favourite was paying $4, I'd punt both because you couldn't lose!

We are never going to agree on it, so I'll leave it at that. I'm just really disappointed that some of our supporters are so narrow-sighted in regardds to DB. Don't get me wrong, if he is still there are 2013 and he hasn't got us in the hunt for a flag, that's when I'll be voiving my concerns. But where I differ to some on here, I don't think it's too late at the end of 2013 to look elsewhere if need be.

At this stage, DB is our coach, and in my view, has done nothing for me to question his ability. We wanted to see a game plan, we saw it against the Swans last year, we wanted more passion, we saw it against Brisbane*, it's just that some want a premiership now, and that aint gunna happen so it must be the coach's fault.

Edit - Brisbane

Edited April 14, 2011 by billy2803

[Range Rover 1,935]

If it were a 2 horse race and the favourite was paying $4, I'd punt both because you couldn't lose!

We are never going to agree on it, so I'll leave it at that. I'm just really disappointed that some of our supporters are so narrow-sighted in regardds to DB. Don't get me wrong, if he is still there are 2013 and he hasn't got us in the hunt for a flag, that's when I'll be voiving my concerns. But where I differ to some on here, I don't think it's too late at the end of 2013 to look elsewhere if need be.

At this stage, DB is our coach, and in my view, has done nothing for me to question his ability. We wanted to see a game plan, we saw it against the Swans last year, we wanted more passion, we saw it against Hawthorn, it's just that some want a premiership now, and that aint gunna happen so it must be the coach's fault.

Fair enough Billyboy. Agree to disagree.

[Supermercado 2,802]

I love to see what salary he's on compared to Bailey..

[old dee 23,908]

I love to see what salary he's on compared to Bailey..

Does that mean we cannot afford the best?

If so we will not win a flag in the next ten years if we can only afford second or third best.

God I hope you are wrong because if you are correct we are doomed

[jayceebee31 761]

Fellow Demoniacs ...

The current premiership coach and architect of Collingwood's current era of dominance will quite possibly be available to coach a rival club at the of this season. Despite the "Kirrbilli" style agreement brokered with Eddie McGuire and Nathan Buckley, Mick Malthouse has given every indication that he would like to coach on and appears to be right at the top of his game.

Regardless of how you feel about Dean Bailey's performance to date, should we be canvassing the possibility of making a play for this man as our senior coach heading into season 2012?

We are only going to get one chance at creating our own era of dominance with the talented young list we have assembled. Surely we would be derelict in our duty if we don't at least look at him?

I agree and so does R.R- Russell Robertson.All though I think we haven't hit our straps yet I feel we really do need to invest heavily in our football department similar to Essendon has just done. We need to look at every avenue at the end of 2011.But changes definately need to be made.

Edited April 14, 2011 by jayceebee31

[jayceebee31 761]

How many did Bomba get?

How many has a, Malthouse?

But then again, there is another former Coach, who has the wood on both of these, commentating at the moment.

Whom- Leigh or Paul?????

[Sir Why You Little 37,239]

Interesting how our very own CEO mentioned Mick Malthouse in this weeks Whiteboard Video

Whiteboard Wednesday Week 3.

[Supermercado 2,802]

Does that mean we cannot afford the best?

If so we will not win a flag in the next ten years if we can only afford second or third best.

God I hope you are wrong because if you are correct we are doomed

I agree we can't afford the best - which luckily means we won't do stupid things like pay over the odds for the likes of Matthew Knights.

BUT I don't think Roos or Clarkson were considered "the best" when they were appointed and it didn't hurt them when it came to raising the cup.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Whom- Leigh or Paul?????

HaHa, exactly, I was talking about Matthews, JCB31.. But Yeah, ROOS is the one I'd prefer in todays Footy.

[speed demon 818]

Ofcourse the MFC should consider it but, at this point, I hope we keep Bailey.

If Collingwood win this year Malthouse will have consolidated his reputation as a coaching great with dynasties at two clubs in different eras. Into his 60's will he still have the hunger to chase a third?

Thus far I am satisfied with Bailey. He has vision and the ability to sell it to the Club. He also has the focus and managerial skills to execute his plans. He has steered us from worst team of the decade to a team on the fringe of the top 8. If progress this season continues to follow the current trajectory I would like to see him offered two years and see if he has the ability to lead us to the the top 4.

[Akum 2,660]

I'm in the pro-DB camp, but before we give him anther 2 years I'd like to see him:

(a) Make a coaching intervention during a match that gets us a win - maybe a positional change, or something that stops a run-on, or a change in tactics ... it doesn't matter how.

(B) Construct some successful set-plays, or team strategies where a group of players have worked something out beforehand - a centre bounce, a kick-in, a forward play - that is executed effectively.

© Strengthen the game plan by addressing & correcting one or two of its weaknesses.

I think the club would be satisfied with his ability to develop players, and he definitely seems to have their respect & trust. But to get to the top in our next phase, we need a coach who has strategic thinking, tactical nous, and the ability to spot problems and correct them. If DB can demonstrate this, he's our man without a doubt.

I like DB but I don't think he's showed us yet that he's the man to take us to the next level.

[Born to Run 204]

I am in the "I hope Dean Bailey works" camp. There is no doubt the bloke has done the hard yards and put in the time and energy to set the playing list up for a sustained period of finals football. The drafting will be judged in years to come, but per many commentators views, it has been (at least if not better than) good.

Unfortunately though, all the effort and the pain that Bails has suffered does not necessarily mean that he IS or WILL BE a great coach. Our record (while very explainable) is extremely poor. And if after 3 drafts and preseasons we can make serious inroads this year, we would be silly to think that he is the only way forward. That is called head in sand behavior.

Charting the progression of Melbourne under Bailey and Hawthorn under Clarkson is interesting

Hawthorn under Schwab (in his last two seasons) won 12 (2003) and 4 (2004). Enter Clarkson and Hawthorn won 5 (2005), 9 (2006), 14 (2007) 20 (2008)

Melbourne under Daniher (in his last two seasons) won 13 (2006) and 5 (2007). Enter Bailey and Melbourne won 3 (2008), 4 (2009), 8 (2010) and ?? (2011).

I know everyone will say that Hawthorn had a better list and drafted Buddy and Roughhead etc, but we had the same opportunities to do that too. Its the closest thing that I can get to having a comparable situation. (It will never be perfect)

We need to be significantly better than 2010 in my opinion to believe and have the players believe that Bailey is an exceptional coach.

In my eyes it would be foolish to rush in and offer anything until seasons end. I cant see anyone poaching him (no disrespect) and I think the players, club and supporters would want to be pretty sure we are on a winner before turning down opportunities to assess other well credentialed candidates that could have a material affect on the future performances on the team.

Lets hope DB brings a season of at least (and I think 10 is an absolute minimum) wins and the promise that the game plan is starting to develop as well as the players within that game plan.

If this is not shown categorically, I think we have to look elsewhere after 4 years of giving him every opportunity.

[daisycutter 29,795]

I am in the "I hope Dean Bailey works" camp. There is no doubt the bloke has done the hard yards and put in the time and energy to set the playing list up for a sustained period of finals football. The drafting will be judged in years to come, but per many commentators views, it has been (at least if not better than) good.

Unfortunately though, all the effort and the pain that Bails has suffered does not necessarily mean that he IS or WILL BE a great coach. Our record (while very explainable) is extremely poor. And if after 3 drafts and preseasons we can make serious inroads this year, we would be silly to think that he is the only way forward. That is called head in sand behavior.

Charting the progression of Melbourne under Bailey and Hawthorn under Clarkson is interesting

Hawthorn under Schwab (in his last two seasons) won 12 (2003) and 4 (2004). Enter Clarkson and Hawthorn won 5 (2005), 9 (2006), 14 (2007) 20 (2008)

Melbourne under Daniher (in his last two seasons) won 13 (2006) and 5 (2007). Enter Bailey and Melbourne won 3 (2008), 4 (2009), 8 (2010) and ?? (2011).

I know everyone will say that Hawthorn had a better list and drafted Buddy and Roughhead etc, but we had the same opportunities to do that too. Its the closest thing that I can get to having a comparable situation. (It will never be perfect)

We need to be significantly better than 2010 in my opinion to believe and have the players believe that Bailey is an exceptional coach.

In my eyes it would be foolish to rush in and offer anything until seasons end. I cant see anyone poaching him (no disrespect) and I think the players, club and supporters would want to be pretty sure we are on a winner before turning down opportunities to assess other well credentialed candidates that could have a material affect on the future performances on the team.

Lets hope DB brings a season of at least (and I think 10 is an absolute minimum) wins and the promise that the game plan is starting to develop as well as the players within that game plan.

If this is not shown categorically, I think we have to look elsewhere after 4 years of giving him every opportunity.

All fair comment

You are right in that we need to see how the whole of 2011 pans out first

As to being in the "I hope Dean Bailey works" camp, I am strictly neutral. I am in the "I want to win a flag at all costs" camp.