Split with Casey?

[old dee 23,792]

IMO This is all a storm in a tea cup!

Fev will be there for at the most 1 season, He will not be fit enough till at least round 3 -4.

If he shines he will find a home elsewhere in 2012, problem gone.

There is always the chance he will go back to his old ways and Casey will fling him, problem gone

As for having our own reserves side, no chance this side of five years.

We simply cannot afford one.

It also appears to me that The MFC have so far got more out of the deal than Casey

The last two years we have left Casey hi and dry with almost no MFC players avialable after they made the finals.

Lets worry about the game tomorrow!

Edited March 10, 2011 by old dee

[H_T 3,047]

Lets worry about the game tomorrow!

Worry ?! It's a scratch match.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

MFC has a 30 yr contract with the Casey Council. This is seperate to the 10 yr agreement we have with the football club. I am not sure if the Council contract requires as a condition an ongoing affiliation with the Casey team. The Council own the facilities so our access to them should be safe.

But unless we takeover Casey FC I cant see how the community will want us if we squeeze their local club to death by having our 2nds team based out there and playing there.

Excellent news we have seperate deals with the Council & the Football Club, i thought this was the situation.

The Casey Scorpions need us more than Vice Versa, we pay them $250,000 per annum. If Caro is correct the pricks got a lot of that in advance!!! Bloody cheek i say..

Yes we need the council and the rate payers, time will heal that-30 years is 3 generations of little demons. But we also need our young side taught the game properly.

Fev will be using the Scorps forward line as his playground (and i do not blame him for that-it is his agenda) but the scorps are going to be left high and dry because of a short term decision.

Edited March 10, 2011 by why you little

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

IMO This is all a storm in a tea cup!

As for having our own reserves side, no chance this side of five years.

We simply cannot afford one.

It also appears to me that The MFC have so far got more out of the deal than Casey

The last two years we have left Casey hi and dry with almost no MFC players avialable after they made the finals.

We have also paid the Bastards a lot of cash up front!

[dee-luded 2,959]

Excellent news we have seperate deals with the Council & the Football Club, i thought this was the situation.

The Casey Scorpions need us more than Vice Versa, we pay them $250,000 per annum. If Caro is correct the pricks got a lot of that in advance!!! Bloody cheek i say..

Yes we need the council and the rate payers, time will heal that-30 years is 3 generations of little demons. But we also need our young side taught the game properly.

Fev will be using the Scorps forward line as his playground (and i do not blame him for that-it is his agenda) but the scorps are going to be left high and dry because of a short term decision.

A Power struggle, in Gippsland!

[Weedster 174]

EVery other alignment club in the vfl respected the wishes of their afl affiliate. The reason they did this is they know they need the afl club more than the afl clubs need them. Casey thinks they have us by the bollocks because of our agreement with council. Arrogant in the extreme from the JUNIOR partner. Our own vfl side should be a priority for the club and it should be based at Casey. The decision to recruit Fev could cost the scorps a lot in the long run.

Casey had a very poor relationship with St Kilda previously, and the pattern seems to be continuing. Both sides here have the right to decide the fit which suites them best - the wheel however seems to be turning against alingments all round - though the one we had previously with Sandy seemed to produce win-wins while it lasted.

I would hope our $250k contribution is not part funding fat Fev B)

[Dee-licious 1,951]

Ok.

The most logical business and economic outcome if we split from Casey is that Casey would no longer exist. They are not financially viable without an affiliation. Our 30 year contract with the City of Casey still stands. Therefore, the Melbourne Demons reserves play and train at Casey, uses the Casey facilities, basically replaces Casey FC.

All Casey players will then be assessed by Melbourne and the ones we need will be offered VFL contracts, the others (such as Fev) will need to find new homes.

With a push from the other AFL clubs to have stand alone VFL clubs I would be very suprised if we didnt follow suit in 2012.

[demonique 314]

I would love for Melbourne and the rest of Vic Based AFL clubs to bring back their reserve teams and play them as of old VFL.

If this were to happen the VFL as now would perish.

The reason Casey spent all that loot on infrastructure was nothing to do with the Scorpions it was all to do with the Demons and that's who the deal is with. Our team and others in the AFL for that matter could only benefit by giving current arrangements the flick. Didn't do Collingwood any harm, nor Geelong.

I know the days of having a reserve match before the BIG one on game day will never return but I sure would go to the reserve games if there was no clash in the timings.

Anyway there must be heaps of issues we don't know about with this connection with the Scorpion.

KNOCK EM ON THE HEAD, I SAY

[old dee 23,792]

Worry ?! It's a scratch match.

yes if we get belted ( which is a possibility based on recent form and our efforts against the hawks in recent times )

It will do wonders for our membership drive!!!!!!!!!!

The Casey thing is a small annoyance, a big loss to the hawks will hurt more.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

The Casey thing is a small annoyance, a big loss to the hawks will hurt more.

That is a joke isn't it...(i truly hope so!!)

[demonique 314]

Further to my post , I would actually pay to see the All Melbourne reserves play sans Scorpions. As it is now with our membership you can watch for free, I have never been to a Casey nor a Sandringham match in the past, and probably never will as it stands.

Anyway I reckon FEV is cactus, he hasn't got the gumption to know whats good for him nor the will power to do whats necessary.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I would love for Melbourne and the rest of Vic Based AFL clubs to bring back their reserve teams and play them as of old VFL.

If this were to happen the VFL as now would perish.

The reason Casey spent all that loot on infrastructure was nothing to do with the Scorpions it was all to do with the Demons and that's who the deal is with. Our team and others in the AFL for that matter could only benefit by giving current arrangements the flick. Didn't do Collingwood any harm, nor Geelong.

I know the days of having a reserve match before the BIG one on game day will never return but I sure would go to the reserve games if there was no clash in the timings.

Anyway there must be heaps of issues we don't know about with this connection with the Scorpion.

KNOCK EM ON THE HEAD, I SAY

I'm Not so Sure,,, as I think the AFL were reflecting on the old days with the reserves prior to games. So in that thought, Day games where a 2.00pm or later start time, 2.30pm or 4.00pm time slots IMO would work with a reserve game. If each local Vic, AFL side had 3 or 4 daylight games with reserves played, prior to AFL games, I think it would be a bonus,,,,,,, especially when we played low attendence opponents, such as Port Power, or GWS or the Suns,,,,,, or Tassie Llamas, lol....reresenting both Nth & Sth...

sorry, I indulge...

Edited March 10, 2011 by dee-luded

[old dee 23,792]

That is a joke isn't it...(i truly hope so!!)

I am not joking we are all getting worked up about things that probably won't happen.

At Sandy and Casey there have always been cases where their team selection took priority over MFC needs.

That is what happens when you have an alliance and not your own team.

Why do Geelong and Collingwood have their own teams?

So they can get their own way all of the time!

We along with most other sides cannot afford one so lets get on with doing the best with what we have.

By its very nature an alliance will always have differences of opinion.

Sometimes that means you have to "suck it up" this is one of those occasions.

[furious d 464]

Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is otherwise. Other AFL clubs have had and are having problems with their alignment clubs.

I dont think Casey believe that at all. They are acting in their interests which in certain points differs from our own. Its not arrogant at all. If MFC want to commit to Casey and the community then it should consider taking over Casey at the end of 2011 and running it as an MFC reserves side but keeping the name and showing a commitment to the broader community. I cant think of bigger way of p1$$ing off the local community if we shun the local community side and set up an MFC side in Cranbourne. A real David vs Goliath and MFC will lose any sense of goodwill down that way.

As rpfc says, if MFC is going to jettison Casey then it needs to build and communicate its case very well.

I disagree, I know other alliances have had trouble but no other alignment club deliberately ignored the wishes of their afl partner. Willy were apparently keen until the bulldogs told them no. They were smart enough to play the long game and not [censored] off a club that provides them with money and players.

I don't see how we could "take over" Casey. Their board is not going to vote themselves out of existence. Footy rationalization has been going on since the game started. Clubs change leagues and sometimes disappear all together. Casey haven't been down there too long, they were Springvale not that long ago. I don't really see a problem with abandoning Casey the club, yes it might annoy some locals in the short term but we're playing a long slow game down there, a generational game if you will. A bit of short term pain for long term gain IMO.

[Rogue 585]

I think the Casey/Melb issue is, IMO, far bigger than a NAB Challenge result.

With regards recruiting Fev, Casey are looking after themselves. I argue that this is as it should be - they are a Club with their own interests. Obviously the benefits of having Fevola need to be weighed against the downsides (both in relation to Fevola and the MFC/Casey partnership), but they've clearly come to the decision - right or wrong - that their interests are best served by recruiting Fevola. However, in making a decision based on their own self-interest - as they should - I think they could easily have come to the decision that aligning with the wishes of the MFC was the best decision (as other aligned clubs apparently have, ie. Williamstown).

What I wonder is whether we been playing our role in assisting their ambitions (for example, did we support their finals ambitions last season?) in a way which might have caused them to have confidence we will do so in 2011. If we haven't, it's understandable that they chose to recruit Fevola.

As for the concept of a stand-alone team, I've always that thought having one would be what you'd want in an ideal world. Surely it's better to have complete control over what strategey/tactics the team employ, what role your players take on and how much they play.

However, as has been said, I'm interested in how the logistics of this would work. If the $500K figure is correct, how much is $200-250K in terms of the footy budget? Would a stand-alone team give us more ability to make money (in terms of sponsors, functions, etc). If so, does this reduce that cost? There's also the whole Casey community side of things, and playing in the region would be helpful IMO. Perhaps it would be even better to have our own side down there though, although whether that could happen if we split with Casey is another thing. Could we play games at Casey Fields or would we definitely need to find a different ground? Is Casey viable stand-alone?

[mpc 148]

Based on the figures floating around in the media, we need approx an extra $250k per year to have our own VFL team. If we manage to get 40,000 members - this equates to us all chipping in $6.25 each to make it viable. I for one would have absolutely no problem contributing an extra $6.25 to have our own VFL team. It's just another logical step in our movement to becoming a great powerhouse club again.

[DeeVoted 583]

It seems this alignment is slowing self destructing.

At the time I couldnt understand why MFC prevented our players

taking part in Caseys' finals campaign.

Our excuse was we needed them to have ops on injuries etc (fair enough)

But from Caseys view, they were a good chance to play a GF.

That for them means more revenue,increased membership. TV exposure etc.

Peter German walked out on the club because of it.

We did the same last year, (2010) we havent done them too many favours

when they need their best side when the finals come around.

We never did that at Sandy, we helped them win 4 flags.

So something is amiss with this marriage.

I didnt want Fev down there, but I can see it can help Casey, it should help

the gate takings (IF he keeps his nose clean,and plays good footy)

But my main concern, 1 bad apple can /could destroy a bunch.

If MFC keep preventing our players from playing finals with Casey,

its not helping them ,then why should they (Casey) continue to tow the line.

it might be a storm in a teacup, or there is more going on deep down.

The big picture is the Casey region, not the scorpions.

They came with the package, but it would be ideal if alliance works.

Its looking like its on shaky ground when they cant see eye to eye.

I would much prefer we had our own stand alone 2nds

I used to make sure I got to the 'G' early to see who was

likely to come up and play seniors, Those days are long gone.

This marriage is on the rocks, time for some counselling.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I disagree, I know other alliances have had trouble but no other alignment club deliberately ignored the wishes of their afl partner. Willy were apparently keen until the bulldogs told them no. They were smart enough to play the long game and not [censored] off a club that provides them with money and players.

Sandringham did with MFC. Casey did it with St Kilda. Williamstown did it with Collingwood. Bendigo with Essendon Bombers The list goes on.

I don't see how we could "take over" Casey. Their board is not going to vote themselves out of existence. Footy rationalization has been going on since the game started. Clubs change leagues and sometimes disappear all together. Casey haven't been down there too long, they were Springvale not that long ago. I don't really see a problem with abandoning Casey the club, yes it might annoy some locals in the short term but we're playing a long slow game down there, a generational game if you will. A bit of short term pain for long term gain IMO.

There are a number of ways you can effect a change of control of a Club without having the Board agree to it voluntarily.

I dont think its a good look for an AFL Club to abandon a local club to wither and then set up a parallel operation in the same area. Surely there is a more sensible method.

[old dee 23,792]

It seems this alignment is slowing self destructing.

At the time I couldnt understand why MFC prevented our players

taking part in Caseys' finals campaign.

Our excuse was we needed them to have ops on injuries etc (fair enough)

But from Caseys view, they were a good chance to play a GF.

That for them means more revenue,increased membership. TV exposure etc.

Peter German walked out on the club because of it.

We did the same last year, (2010) we havent done them too many favours

when they need their best side when the finals come around.

We never did that at Sandy, we helped them win 4 flags.

So something is amiss with this marriage.

I didnt want Fev down there, but I can see it can help Casey, it should help

the gate takings (IF he keeps his nose clean,and plays good footy)

But my main concern, 1 bad apple can /could destroy a bunch.

If MFC keep preventing our players from playing finals with Casey,

its not helping them ,then why should they (Casey) continue to tow the line.

it might be a storm in a teacup, or there is more going on deep down.

The big picture is the Casey region, not the scorpions.

They came with the package, but it would be ideal if alliance works.

Its looking like its on shaky ground when they cant see eye to eye.

I would much prefer we had our own stand alone 2nds

I used to make sure I got to the 'G' early to see who was

likely to come up and play seniors, Those days are long gone.

This marriage is on the rocks, time for some counselling.

You make a lot of sense Deevoted.

Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water just yet.

[old dee 23,792]

Based on the figures floating around in the media, we need approx an extra $250k per year to have our own VFL team. If we manage to get 40,000 members - this equates to us all chipping in $6.25 each to make it viable. I for one would have absolutely no problem contributing an extra $6.25 to have our own VFL team. It's just another logical step in our movement to becoming a great powerhouse club again.

Sorry to disagree with you but I find it very difficult to believe that the figure is only $250k.

I believe it is a lot more.

Clubs like Essendon who are not short on cash continue to have an affiliate.

If the figure was only $250k they would have their own team as would Hawthorn and a few others.

Edited March 10, 2011 by old dee

[Roost It 1,434]

He only signed for a year because he wishes to get back to playing AFL. The Casey club are trying to help him out.

No they're not, They are trying to help out themselves. Shortsighted, poor decision.

[mpc 148]

Sorry to disagree with you but I find it very difficult to believe that the figure is only $250k.

I believe it is a lot more.

Clubs like Essendon who are not short on cash continue to have an affiliate.

If the figure was only $250k they would have their own team as would Hawthorn and a few others.

In any case, lets say it as 1million dollars extra that we needed. That would mean we'd have to chip in $25 each. I still think thats a good investment for us as a club and supporters. We as supporters have already shown we are willing to help the club out when in need. If this takes us one step closer to winning a premiership, then I would be all for a slightly more expensive membership to help the club maintain a reserves side.

[old dee 23,792]

No they're not, They are trying to help out themselves. Shortsighted, poor decision.

He is not actually signed yet to my knowledge

however the decision is made so why not just get on with making the best of it!

We have put our case to Casey.

We will not achieve anything if we just get into a continuing agruement with them.

That will effect the way some of our young players develop.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think the Casey/Melb issue is, IMO, far bigger than a NAB Challenge result.

With regards recruiting Fev, Casey are looking after themselves. I argue that this is as it should be - they are a Club with their own interests. Obviously the benefits of having Fevola need to be weighed against the downsides (both in relation to Fevola and the MFC/Casey partnership), but they've clearly come to the decision - right or wrong - that their interests are best served by recruiting Fevola. However, in making a decision based on their own self-interest - as they should - I think they could easily have come to the decision that aligning with the wishes of the MFC was the best decision (as other aligned clubs apparently have, ie. Williamstown).

What I wonder is whether we been playing our role in assisting their ambitions (for example, did we support their finals ambitions last season?) in a way which might have caused them to have confidence we will do so in 2011. If we haven't, it's understandable that they chose to recruit Fevola.

As for the concept of a stand-alone team, I've always that thought having one would be what you'd want in an ideal world. Surely it's better to have complete control over what strategey/tactics the team employ, what role your players take on and how much they play.

However, as has been said, I'm interested in how the logistics of this would work. If the $500K figure is correct, how much is $200-250K in terms of the footy budget? Would a stand-alone team give us more ability to make money (in terms of sponsors, functions, etc). If so, does this reduce that cost? There's also the whole Casey community side of things, and playing in the region would be helpful IMO. Perhaps it would be even better to have our own side down there though, although whether that could happen if we split with Casey is another thing. Could we play games at Casey Fields or would we definitely need to find a different ground? Is Casey viable stand-alone?

Is that $500K,,, last years figure with Rookies, as the cost may be going to increase???

[jayceebee31 761]

I think the Casey/Melb issue is, IMO, far bigger than a NAB Challenge result.

With regards recruiting Fev, Casey are looking after themselves. I argue that this is as it should be - they are a Club with their own interests. Obviously the benefits of having Fevola need to be weighed against the downsides (both in relation to Fevola and the MFC/Casey partnership), but they've clearly come to the decision - right or wrong - that their interests are best served by recruiting Fevola. However, in making a decision based on their own self-interest - as they should - I think they could easily have come to the decision that aligning with the wishes of the MFC was the best decision (as other aligned clubs apparently have, ie. Williamstown).

What I wonder is whether we been playing our role in assisting their ambitions (for example, did we support their finals ambitions last season?) in a way which might have caused them to have confidence we will do so in 2011. If we haven't, it's understandable that they chose to recruit Fevola.

As for the concept of a stand-alone team, I've always that thought having one would be what you'd want in an ideal world. Surely it's better to have complete control over what strategey/tactics the team employ, what role your players take on and how much they play.

However, as has been said, I'm interested in how the logistics of this would work. If the $500K figure is correct, how much is $200-250K in terms of the footy budget? Would a stand-alone team give us more ability to make money (in terms of sponsors, functions, etc). If so, does this reduce that cost? There's also the whole Casey community side of things, and playing in the region would be helpful IMO. Perhaps it would be even better to have our own side down there though, although whether that could happen if we split with Casey is another thing. Could we play games at Casey Fields or would we definitely need to find a different ground? Is Casey viable stand-alone?

Very well reasoned and stated.I concur with almost all of what you have stated.I feel we have issues that can fairly quickly be sorted by both clubs if all want the alliance to work.To me, I feel sorting out the issues is more important than going solo.Maybe the Casey council may have to stand up and liase with both parties.It is also very much in their best interests.Need to find a win/win outcome.