Much was made of, and discussed when the opportunity ( or not ) to gain the services of Hale that what Melbourne so really want/need is a more than useful type, a non-kid, who can make the square his home, provide a reliable target and maybe another aspect to his game.

We have some in the warehouse but theyre a way off being useful at present. There are other leagues out there. There are blokes who may not have grabbed enough attention when aged to garner a gig as a draftee and so consolidated themselves with forging a career in their backyards whether that be the WAFL, SANFL, VFL , QLD or where ever.

Pods showed that there is talent out there. Talent quite capable of playing at AFL level just not on an AFL list.

Im not particularly advocating an older player, but not discounting it either. We need a bloke for 2-3 years to hold down the pointy end til someone comes on.

In the words of Floyd... Is there anyone out there ?

We all concede/acknowledge that of the KPP talls etc take a few more years to find their feet. Has some kid fallen through the cracks of drrafting , or even getting to camp bit since honed his game to a better than decent standard ?

We dont need a gun slinging , take on allcomers game winning FF. We just need a capable one. This provides the structure the FD is seemingly creating whilst also retraining the focus of some defenders away from the likes of Watts and Jurrah.

If wondering how this happens ...well think Bail.

So anyone know ofr think of an established player...hiding out there ? Any left field (any field ) smokies ??

There is a guy in the VFL who won his team's B&F at FF, kicked a heap of goals. Tall, tough, leadership material. 26 or 27 I think.

There is a guy in the VFL who won his team's B&F at FF, kicked a heap of goals. Tall, tough, leadership material. 26 or 27 I think.

My thoughs exactly!

Personally, I was disappointed with Millers axing. Not saying he does not have limitations, just thought he was a good depth player who could make a contest at FF.

My thoughs exactly!

Personally, I was disappointed with Millers axing. Not saying he does not have limitations, just thought he was a good depth player who could make a contest at FF.

at AFL..he didnt..he played lead up ( mostly..when effective) its all old ground.. but the irony is noted. The club dont share the view..it seems..so we move on.

There are going to be some guys out there..and Pods showed us this , that can play..and be an impact, if put into right environment. Pods was/is at the latter part of career but whatIm interested in is possibly a 23-25 yo who blossomed late...too late for most clubs to have taken any notice.

We all get caught up with the latest and greatest. Kids are great..but they take quite a time to come on..esp the key position types.

Just putting it out there that theres more than one way to do things

I don't really understand all the hype about needing a Ruck/FF in the first place and needing to trade for one in the second.

- Aside from Ottens there aren't exactly that many real good players that fit this mould

- does anyone think Hale is all that great a footballer? Kicked more than 22 goals once, and is over rated as a ruckman....PJ showed enough in the last 4 or so rounds to play a little more

Also, I understand that the conventional wisdom regarding the 22nd man is a second ruck type utility would be useful...but I think that the 22nd man will be a spark-plug rather than a contingency once the coaches get the hang of it. A second ruck man is a must in this day and age, but how is it going to help the team keeping one on the bench until later in the game, and then effectively having less in the rotation or somewhere else on the ground and dont we want Jamar to dominate 4th quarters? A Jamie Bennel type may be perfect for man 22.

I understand that you don't want a ruckman taking up a place on the pine, but it seems to be a bit over hyped right now.

As to Miller, totally different player at VFL level than in the big time

My thoughs exactly!

Personally, I was disappointed with Millers axing. Not saying he does not have limitations, just thought he was a good depth player who could make a contest at FF.

I think it was his time. But it is interesting, if Miller was not AFL listed (and never had been)after his year with Casey people everywhere would be calling him the new Pods.

I hope he goes to the Tigers and does well there. Maybe he will be better in a side with a genuine FF like Riewoldt.

I don't really understand all the hype about needing a Ruck/FF in the first place and needing to trade for one in the second.

- Aside from Ottens there aren't exactly that many real good players that fit this mould

- does anyone think Hale is all that great a footballer? Kicked more than 22 goals once, and is over rated as a ruckman....PJ showed enough in the last 4 or so rounds to play a little more

Also, I understand that the conventional wisdom regarding the 22nd man is a second ruck type utility would be useful...but I think that the 22nd man will be a spark-plug rather than a contingency once the coaches get the hang of it. A second ruck man is a must in this day and age, but how is it going to help the team keeping one on the bench until later in the game, and then effectively having less in the rotation or somewhere else on the ground and dont we want Jamar to dominate 4th quarters? A Jamie Bennel type may be perfect for man 22.

I understand that you don't want a ruckman taking up a place on the pine, but it seems to be a bit over hyped right now.

As to Miller, totally different player at VFL level than in the big time

If you could pick a short coming in our current group, what would it be? For mine, it would be some assistance to Jamar and also a big, get out of my way unit up front.

That being said, if Jurrah continues to stand on everyone's shoulders, well we are just recruiting step ladders for the superstar B)

I don't really understand all the hype about needing a Ruck/FF in the first place and needing to trade for one in the second.

...

The "hype" might stem from Bailey's wish to have a big man in the square - more a forward that occassionally helps in the ruck. This option doesn't necessarily have to be on the pine as you suggest. This bloke can be forward and when Jamar needs a break from contesting in the centre they can swap. Or Jamar can interchange if necessary for a required time.

It seems a sensible approach given today's game.

The "hype" might stem from Bailey's wish to have a big man in the square - more a forward that occassionally helps in the ruck.

That's fine, but Hale isn't this bloke...he's nothing once the ball hits the deck, no lateral movement.

Yes, go get a 24-27 year old from the VFL, SANFL, WAFL if someone's out there.

Why not experiment with Danny Hughes again? I thought he did alright until he got injured?

That's fine, but Hale isn't this bloke...he's nothing once the ball hits the deck, no lateral movement.

Yes, go get a 24-27 year old from the VFL, SANFL, WAFL if someone's out there.

What about this bloke ?

What about this bloke ?

bc he is a 185cm half forward, in direct competition with Pettard, Tapscott, Green, Dunn, and even sort of in competition Sylvia, Wona and Jurrah...

We are packed with forward line talent... we are probably just missing 1 sort of forward, which is a really good 195cm+ big strong bodied, contested marking forward

I don't really understand all the hype about needing a Ruck/FF in the first place and needing to trade for one in the second.

- Aside from Ottens there aren't exactly that many real good players that fit this mould

- does anyone think Hale is all that great a footballer? Kicked more than 22 goals once, and is over rated as a ruckman....PJ showed enough in the last 4 or so rounds to play a little more

Interesting opinion given that PJ was not played in rounds 21 or 22 and only played 8 games for the year.

I would have been happy to give Hale a run over PJ given that Hale can take a grab up forward and doesnt look as lost below his waist as PJ does.

We lack height and size, we must/will improve here. I dont blame the FD for trying to improve that through Hale.

What about this bloke ?

having grown up in sandringham it's always so hard to support someone wearing a Port Melbourne jumper!! Gulp B)

if we did recruit a ruck/ff player, why would he be the substitute?? surely you would have him start or on the bench and have a midfielder as a substitute.... thats why injuries hurt you, because you lose a rotation...

Newton

Newton

No thank you - Jonathan Giles might be the man

I don't really understand all the hype about needing a Ruck/FF in the first place and needing to trade for one in the second.

You touch on it later, I know, but the idea is you have to 'hide' this relief ruckman in another position as another ruckman on the bench would make a team lose run against a team without a ruck on their bench.

We are trading for one because we don't have an adequate player for this FF/ruck and taller players mature later than smaller players so the draft isn't an option. Unless there is a hidden gem playing state footy somewhere.

- Aside from Ottens there aren't exactly that many real good players that fit this mould

- does anyone think Hale is all that great a footballer? Kicked more than 22 goals once, and is over rated as a ruckman....PJ showed enough in the last 4 or so rounds to play a little more

Do we need a 'real good player'? Clark or White would be two players off the top of my head that would be very valuable. Hale would have been, and probably will be, a role player - he doesn't need to be great. More than half of our premiership team won't be 'great' players.

PJ didn't play for half of those 'last 4 games' so I guess his output wasn't bad in that it minimised his mistakes...

He isn't going to do it.

Also, I understand that the conventional wisdom regarding the 22nd man is a second ruck type utility would be useful...but I think that the 22nd man will be a spark-plug rather than a contingency once the coaches get the hang of it. A second ruck man is a must in this day and age, but how is it going to help the team keeping one on the bench until later in the game, and then effectively having less in the rotation or somewhere else on the ground and dont we want Jamar to dominate 4th quarters? A Jamie Bennel type may be perfect for man 22.

I understand that you don't want a ruckman taking up a place on the pine, but it seems to be a bit over hyped right now.

I don't think it 'good conventional wisdom' to have a backup ruck as the 22nd man. Jamar needs a rest throughout the first three quarters so he can 'run-out' every game throughout the year.

One of the 21 should be able to adequately back up Jamar, and needs to have another primary position so we are not 'carrying' him.

I really think it makes sense.

Thought we had one on our list - maybe we might now be forced to fast track his improvement. Might be the "biggest" blessing in history ... player

bc he is a 185cm half forward, in direct competition with Pettard, Tapscott, Green, Dunn, and even sort of in competition Sylvia, Wona and Jurrah...

We are packed with forward line talent... we are probably just missing 1 sort of forward, which is a really good 195cm+ big strong bodied, contested marking forward

What ? No he isn't. Who are you talking about ? The link I provided is of Sinclair which has him at 201cm; 96kg. (Unless I have my wires crossed as to who you're talking about. )

Perhaps someone like this who has a bit of footy behind him, a bit of development already (VFL) - might be an option. One who can provide a contest in the forward line, take marks, contests, kick goals, and relieve Jamar in the ruck without having to play a specialist second ruck back-up who would pretty much take up a spot on the pine and reduce our running depth. We don't know if Fitzy can do this just yet. Fingers crossed he is our man. (CC seems to think so).Newton has had chances and six years at the club, god only knows with him. Spencer is more your ruck specialist type, and Gawn is greener than the Alps in late spring.

I say no to Newton.

Talk about a spud. It is an insult to our club and all other players who have ever been delisted for him to still be on our list (be it as a mature age rookie).

He was a great aid while we were tanking. It was fantastic list management for our FD to play him during this time. Now those days are behind us so should Newton be gone.

Please, please don't humiliate our guernsey, our club our supporters, our players by letting us see him in the red and blue ever again. I even cringe at the thought of him playing in China.

Thought we had one on our list - maybe we might now be forced to fast track his improvement. Might be the "biggest" blessing in history ... player

'Fast track his improvement'?

Now why didn't I think of that?

Easier said than done.

Kids take a while, tall kids take an eternity.

I say no to Newton.

Talk about a spud. It is an insult to our club and all other players who have ever been delisted for him to still be on our list (be it as a mature age rookie).

He was a great aid while we were tanking. It was fantastic list management for our FD to play him during this time. Now those days are behind us so should Newton be gone.

Please, please don't humiliate our guernsey, our club our supporters, our players by letting us see him in the red and blue ever again. I even cringe at the thought of him playing in China.

I agree 100% with GNF. Newton is an out and out spud! He has the stands in laughter each time he goes near the ball, such is his skill level. It really is a joke.

Why he was offered the last contract and why the MFC would now look to keep him on again, after yet another pathetic year, is beyond me.

N...NNEERR..NNEEEERRR.....NNNNNNNNNEEERR ...NEWTON!! Be gone!

'Fast track his improvement'?

Now why didn't I think of that?

Easier said than done.

Kids take a while, tall kids take an eternity.

I've got an idea!

Why don't we fast-track the entire list!!

We could even win the premiership next year!

This is the thinking outside the square that we have been waiting for...

GNF and TOR - you do yourselves no credit with your descriptions of Newton or any MFC player for that matter. I would be keen to read your description of Mark Jamar at the end of 2008.

You should be preparing to be disappointed. I reckon we should and will retain Michael Newton as a rookie - it's a low cost, he has attributes we need and he's been making progress. If we had secured David Hale it might have been a different story.