Terry Wallace analyses our list

[Hatchman 539]

Wallace was a terrible coach. As others have said he destroyed the Tigers with his 5 year plan that failed absymally.

I find it laughable that he is the "special comments" guy on SEN and other media as he has zero credibility as far I'm concerned when it comes to managing lists.

[H_T 3,049]

By all means, use this thread to stick the boot into Terry if you want, but he was made an AFL coach for some reason, not because he was completely bereft of any relevant skill.

A-hem, if I may.

He was made an AFL coach, by undermining Alan Joyce and gathering support from the playing group at Footscray, whilst assistant to Joyce. It is my understanding he led and encouraged player disharmony to help dislodge Joyce from his position as coach. Those players were his former teammates. Collectively they didn't think Joyce was fit to continue. Wallace wanted the job. And it resulted in a spill during the season.

That is one of the main reasons he was made an AFL senior coach.

I agree with Hatchman, Wallace's credibility as a development coach is no where near as high as Wallace would have people believe.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Good to see Wallet is so revered by his former pupils.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/terry-wallace-cost-us-a-flag-luke-darcy/story-e6frf9jf-1225899041655

[Sir Why You Little 37,127]

Good to see Wallet is so revered by his former pupils.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/terry-wallace-cost-us-a-flag-luke-darcy/story-e6frf9jf-1225899041655

Jeebers Darcy really gets stuck in there!!! Wallace was a Hack coach, who was in the right place at the right time.

In both his stints-Hes starts well and then completely Buggers it ALL up and walks.

And now has the nerve to speak on radio as special comments, admittedely it's SEN so i don't take much notice!!

Wallace was a demon supporter...Be afraid, be very Afraid!!

[Guest The Boss]

Does anyone take Darcy seriously? He has no business doing work in the media.

The whole article stinks of a former player who is bitter because he never won a flag.

[heartbeatstrue 57]

As if I care what Wallace thinks of us!

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

With respect, you are, without a doubt, the biggest pain in the a%#e on this site, RR. Having a conversation with you is like banging your head against a brick wall.

No doubt you dont rate those stats. They tell a story you dont like.

No. Just saying there are stats, then there are stats (for example... I thought Beamer was a good goalkicker at long distance. You informed me he'd kicked, I believe 14 at that point = good stat). Neither player has had enough to make any comparison IMO. I go on what I see. And what I see is that Jamar, up until his big 5 goal game last year, was unreliable in front of goal. Stats don't account for angle, distance, or OOTFs. Jamar SO often marks within 30 metres. I reckon PJ would enjoy greater accuracy from 40+ metres. I would suggest his kicking action is more fluent, and has more distance on it... but that would be an opinion, not a "stat." And lord knows if an opinion is all anyone comes to you with then they may as well not bother right? Right.

Your issue of flubbing is nitpicking to say the least and irrelevant to the point that Jamar has been consistently accurate over the course of his career.

You and your stats. I'll take goal-kicking accuracy for players playing AT FULL FORWARD for a number of years. Or players resting there for their ENTIRE careers. And thats' 100-150 game careers. These stats don't take into account what role they're playing either. For example, I'd rate Bate as a superb kick at goal given that he's not often given the job of marking one-out in the square. Often he's been running far and wide, and kicks them from outside fifty. IMO, Jamar is ok. But I know who I'd want shooting from on 50. Or outside 50.

post='350594'Garbage. Jamar has played second fiddle to Jeff White for so long early in his career that he got no game time at all. The only game where Jamar has had considerable game time forward is Carlton last year where he kicked 5. PJ has had number of opportunities and has shown no capacity for the role as he cant play body on body and is a poor mark.

Here's that brick wall again... No. Not Garbage. I think I may have missed my point though. I've not seen PJ play forward for more than a few 10 minute bursts, in a few games. 2 years ago when he was our number 1 preferred (with Jamar hurt/unfit) he was rucking pretty much on his own, and rarely rested forward. In the FEW instances he's been in a pocket with Jamar playing the bulk of the ruck, I will grant you, he's not taken a game by the scruff of the neck. But as usual, you'll focus on the lack of starring footy. I'll focus on the word FEW. Besides, I've heard on a couple of occasions commentators getting excited about him as a forward. For whatever that's worth. I even remember someone saying in his Carrarra game he was "Carey-like." Which I thought was pretty funny.

No he is poor up back. Panics under pressure and releases the ball on poor options. Both Fraser and McIntosh showed up how unaccountable is his last year by drifting into the F50 and marking and scoring totally unopposed.

Again. You've managed to miss my point completely. Playing defensively on a ruckman? Sure. You have a point with your two isolated incidents... which incidentally Jamar was guilty of countless times in his first 5 years. But I wasn't talking about going back the other way while playing in the ruck. I'm talking about being given a go as a defensive KP defender. He's done it rarely. I saw him play there against the Lions live when we juuuust got up in 2008. And I liked what I saw. Simple. Not complicated. Do us all a favour and don't look for the fault here. I'm not looking for a comment. Just expressing my opinion. I don't expect it to be upheld by anyone here, you least of all. Or the club.

At best, his game was serviceable and what you should expect week in week out as a minimum not once every 70 games or so.

Serviceable is better than what Jamar gave us as a backup ruckman under White. Serviceable is as good as you can get for a backup ruckman with as limited game time as he's getting.

And again, you've ignored what MANY good and sensible posters have claimed, over and over, despite your insistence they're wrong. Saying he's played well once in 70 games is just, plain, infantile hatred directed at a player you've had it in for for a long time. Something you excel at, looking at the negative...

I just did not think you would be crowing

Crowing? Fair dinkum... You are a silly, silly person. Where did I crow? I've been VERY reserved about him since he let me down mid-year. And since he played these last few I've said VERY little. Unlike you, I can admit when I see something that perhaps proves me wrong. Do these couple of ok performances erase his early-year sins? No. But they go part of the way there. Would it kill you to acknowledge it?

on one mediocre game given all the evidence before you (that you work so hard to avoid).

What evidence? That his career hasn't been great thus far? Did I not admit this earlier this year? I've avoided nothing. You're doing this annoying thing where you put words into a posters mouth (keyboard)... again. I don't know why I bother with this...

My views on PJ have not changed since last 2007.

And I doubt they ever will. No matter how much good footy he plays. He could kick 5 goals from playing on, and you'd site "no marking overhead" as a fault.

He should be gone at year end.

HA!

Now I'm a long way from giving you an "I told you so." But this is what has happened so far. I came out in support of a player back when he played enough good footy to suggest he might come on and be a useful player for us in the future. Despite the fact I'm entitled to this opinion, you disagree at EVERY turn. And this year, true to your sniping form, you have said a DOZEN times "Will not be on our list next year."

What was that? Hmmm... That doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation. And now what do we see? "He SHOULD be gone at year's end."

Now fair enough, saying he could become the best backup ruck in the league may have been going early. But that's me. I like to SUPPORT MFC players, crazy at that sounds. Since then, my exuberance may have been proven to be unfounded. But it seems my overconfidence in PJ is matched by your lack of confidence, wouldn't you say? What happens if (and I repeat IF... I'm not confident with him either) he keeps his spot on the list? Do you come out and admit you were wrong when you said, unequivocally, that he's gone? No... You'll have a crack at the list for being weak as far as the rucks go. Or worse still get stuck into the list management. It's a shame, RR. That's all I'm saying.

[Eth 4]

Whoa.

[jnrmac 20,185]

You'll never win an argument with an ignorant man.

[Tatu 416]

i watched an old essendon game few nights back and the similarities between hird and watts astounded me9(at similar ages).im calling it now watts is the next james hird

Have to agree here...

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

With respect, you are, without a doubt, the biggest pain in the a%#e on this site, RR. Having a conversation with you is like banging your head against a brick wall.

I leave the cheap personal attacks to you. It says more about you. I'll debate the issue.

No. Just saying there are stats, then there are stats (for example... I thought Beamer was a good goalkicker at long distance. You informed me he'd kicked, I believe 14 at that point = good stat). Neither player has had enough to make any comparison IMO. I go on what I see. And what I see is that Jamar, up until his big 5 goal game last year, was unreliable in front of goal. Stats don't account for angle, distance, or OOTFs. Jamar SO often marks within 30 metres. I reckon PJ would enjoy greater accuracy from 40+ metres. I would suggest his kicking action is more fluent, and has more distance on it... but that would be an opinion, not a "stat." And lord knows if an opinion is all anyone comes to you with then they may as well not bother right? Right.

I have just shown you a stat that shows a footballer who has a very high conversion rate over a long period of time. Wriggle all you like. Its hardly a criticism that Jamar marks within 30 metres considering PJ doesnt. And if your fantasy is right that PJ is a more accurate kick from 40+ metres then his accuracy up close must be terrible. You are clutching at straws.

You and your stats. I'll take goal-kicking accuracy for players playing AT FULL FORWARD for a number of years. Or players resting there for their ENTIRE careers. And thats' 100-150 game careers. These stats don't take into account what role they're playing either. For example, I'd rate Bate as a superb kick at goal given that he's not often given the job of marking one-out in the square. Often he's been running far and wide, and kicks them from outside fifty. IMO, Jamar is ok. But I know who I'd want shooting from on 50. Or outside 50.

The role they play does not matter one iota. Jamar's conversion rate is what it is. Outstanding no matter how you wish to demean. And the comment on Bate is irrelevant as you were critical of Jamar at goal relative to PJ. BTW, Green struggles from 50+ metres. Its hardly a damming problem for a footballer.

Here's that brick wall again... No. Not Garbage. I think I may have missed my point though. I've not seen PJ play forward for more than a few 10 minute bursts, in a few games. 2 years ago when he was our number 1 preferred (with Jamar hurt/unfit) he was rucking pretty much on his own, and rarely rested forward. In the FEW instances he's been in a pocket with Jamar playing the bulk of the ruck, I will grant you, he's not taken a game by the scruff of the neck. But as usual, you'll focus on the lack of starring footy. I'll focus on the word FEW. Besides, I've heard on a couple of occasions commentators getting excited about him as a forward. For whatever that's worth. I even remember someone saying in his Carrarra game he was "Carey-like." Which I thought was pretty funny.

He has had as much time forward as Jamar. The only thing Carey like about PJ is if he slept with another players wife and I am sure he is a finer person than that. PJ...Carey like??? I dont think so.

Again. You've managed to miss my point completely. Playing defensively on a ruckman? Sure. You have a point with your two isolated incidents... which incidentally Jamar was guilty of countless times in his first 5 years. But I wasn't talking about going back the other way while playing in the ruck. I'm talking about being given a go as a defensive KP defender. He's done it rarely. I saw him play there against the Lions live when we juuuust got up in 2008. And I liked what I saw. Simple. Not complicated. Do us all a favour and don't look for the fault here. I'm not looking for a comment. Just expressing my opinion. I don't expect it to be upheld by anyone here, you least of all. Or the club.

I could give more incidents if you want. The errors Jamar may have made in his first 5 years are more explainable than a player in his seventh year. Given we have a surplus of defenders and that our best is very good, PJs best bet is to take the small forward.

Serviceable is better than what Jamar gave us as a backup ruckman under White. Serviceable is as good as you can get for a backup ruckman with as limited game time as he's getting.

He was serviceable given there was little pressure given by the Swans and they did not expose him. He rucked against the Canadian rookie Pyke and broke even in the ruck. PJ kicked a goal. Great. He did his job. He gets another week.

And again, you've ignored what MANY good and sensible posters have claimed, over and over, despite your insistence they're wrong. Saying he's played well once in 70 games is just, plain, infantile hatred directed at a player you've had it in for for a long time. Something you excel at, looking at the negative...

Many good and sensible posters dont lower themselves into player hatred or bashing terminology. Its childish and once again is reflective of the user.

Crowing? Fair dinkum... You are a silly, silly person. Where did I crow? I've been VERY reserved about him since he let me down mid-year. And since he played these last few I've said VERY little. Unlike you, I can admit when I see something that perhaps proves me wrong. Do these couple of ok performances erase his early-year sins? No. But they go part of the way there. Would it kill you to acknowledge it?

His core weaknesses remain the same. And for what he has done to date you would have to be crowing to think he has turned it around. And I did call his game serviceable.

And I doubt they ever will. No matter how much good footy he plays. He could kick 5 goals from playing on, and you'd site "no marking overhead" as a fault.

When he starts playing consistently good football as a ruckman. Brad Miller kicked 5 this year and that does not make him a footballer. I cant imagine what you would be like if PJ did. I hope he does one day.

Now fair enough, saying he could become the best backup ruck in the league may have been going early. But that's me. I like to SUPPORT MFC players, crazy at that sounds. Since then, my exuberance may have been proven to be unfounded. But it seems my overconfidence in PJ is matched by your lack of confidence, wouldn't you say? What happens if (and I repeat IF... I'm not confident with him either) he keeps his spot on the list? Do you come out and admit you were wrong when you said, unequivocally, that he's gone? No... You'll have a crack at the list for being weak as far as the rucks go. Or worse still get stuck into the list management. It's a shame, RR. That's all I'm saying.

Like you I expressed an opinion on PJ. I dont think he is good enough and was likely to be delisted. I was not on my Pat Malone on that. However, he may survive and get another year more out of list circumstance than performance. I reckon he is a candidate for a 12 month extension based on the likelihood we wont draft that heavily this year and that players like SPencer (injured and in development) and Martin have not come on. And if he get a 12 month contract it is not a vindication of PJ as an AFL footballer. Once one of GAWN, Spencer or Fitzpatrick start to show something then PJ is cactus.