Delistings / Changes for 2010

[Guest watts04]

There may already be a thread for this and if there is, apologies.

Time to look at list changes and if players who have been with us a while haven't shown anything then you would think at mid year that there cards are stamped.

The mid year list review:

My changes at years end based on us being a young side and premiership window opening up in a couple of years:

* Bell - never really found a possie or a permanent position and now in the middle in the VFL doing ok things. Only survived this year as had a two year deal and papers stamped as hasn't been given much chance. Would hate to think how long he has been on our list and how many games played

* Paul Johnson - Second club and still no guaranteed game or position in the side. Club has lost patience considering every side would love two ruckman and Jamar needs a chop out. He has been on an AFL list how many years? Not enough aggression or consistency. Maybe like Josh Fraser that in between height where he struggles in the ruck and too tall for down forward

* Newton (rookie list) - Only survived this year like Bell with a two year deal and after how many years still has the same deficiencies. G O N E and thank god

* Meesen (rookie list) - Second club like PJ and no luck with injury. Was put on the rookie list as a sign of things to come. Need to look at another ruckman in the draft or trade like Seaby, Mumford etc. Unlucky but goodbye....

Players who are 50/50

* Cheney - Interesting one as won't get a chance and altho reserves form is good he doesn't get enough possies or isn't damagin enough from half back. Unfortunate that we also drafted Macdonald who would also be ahead of him and is in the twos.....maybe time to go?

* Maric - I'm happy to persist into a third year as first year was injury interrupted. Get the feeling he will be better in the ones where its a bit cleaner than the twos. Needs a better work ethic.....

* Spencer - Peoples views are split here but im happy to persist into a third year. Ruckman don't peak til 25 but id be looking at Warnock or Hampson or a trade for a good ruckman

* Hughes - I really haven't seen enough of him. Hands look ok but has been around a while, maybe one more year?

* Miller - A bit either way, maybe we need to be ruthless and finally cut him?

* McNamara - A depth of key backs with Frawley, Rivers, Garland and Warnock. As much as people say throw some of them forward it's obvious they all are best at the back. We should look to trade him as he has been unlucky and shown good VFL form. May get a reprieve for 2011 based on thin draft because of gold coast.......

Dunn, Bartram, Bail all get another chance based on glimpses this year and with Macdonald, Strauss, Martin to be reviewed with the 50/50's at the end of 2011. We also get Jack Viney at the end of 2011 from memory.......

Not much talent in this years draft so can't cut too many I suppose as Gold Coast get most of the good picks. Have to upgrade McKenzie as well but will be good to have some new rookies finally! With McKenzie getting upgraded we need to open up say three - four spots on our list (Bell, PJ plus 1 - 2 more). One for McKenzie and 2 - 3 draft picks. Our captain will play on next year from all reports....

Thoughts?

[Eth 4]

Players who are 50/50

* Cheney - Interesting one as won't get a chance and altho reserves form is good he doesn't get enough possies or isn't damagin enough from half back. Unfortunate that we also drafted Macdonald who would also be ahead of him and is in the twos.....maybe time to go?

* Maric - I'm happy to persist into a third year as first year was injury interrupted. Get the feeling he will be better in the ones where its a bit cleaner than the twos. Needs a better work ethic.....

* Spencer - Peoples views are split here but im happy to persist into a third year. Ruckman don't peak til 25 but id be looking at Warnock or Hampson or a trade for a good ruckman

* Hughes - I really haven't seen enough of him. Hands look ok but has been around a while, maybe one more year?

* Miller - A bit either way, maybe we need to be ruthless and finally cut him?

* McNamara - A depth of key backs with Frawley, Rivers, Garland and Warnock. As much as people say throw some of them forward it's obvious they all are best at the back. We should look to trade him as he has been unlucky and shown good VFL form. May get a reprieve for 2011 based on thin draft because of gold coast.......

Cheney - NO FRICKIN WAY. He's much better than Joel Mac.

Maric - Pretty good small forward. Keep him.

Spencer - Agree

Hughes - Tough call, hasn't had much of a go

Miller - Agree

McNamara - He's playing well at Casey. Keep

[sylvinator 96]

* Bell - agree delist. He's a very limited player, too many youngsters have scorched past him.

* Paul Johnson - Agree delist. He's not good enough a player, pretty simple.

* Newton (rookie list) - obvious delist, opens up a spot on the rookie list

* Meesen (rookie list) - obvious delist

- Add McNamara- there are probably 10 players ahead of him who play a similar position. He's not in our long term plans

Players who are 50/50

* Cheney - Will probably get another go, but there are so many players rated higher than him playing the same position as him. Makes me think he's in trouble.

* Maric - Would be close to delist. Only reason why he stays is because he was pick 21, so gets extra leverage to prove if he's good enough.

* Spencer - Keep ONLY because we need some back up for Jamar. If we had other ruckman he'd be in trouble. I'd keep him on the rookie list if we can

* Hughes -delist, too many players who play the same position who are miles better

* Miller - Probably kept as depth only, jeez he's a lucky player. Only because our forward line is so young and skinny.

- MacDonald and Strauss would be under notice for 2011

[BAMF 4,299]

McKenzie and Spencer will be elevated, and i'm predicting we will use our first 3 draft picks.

That's 5 spaces we need to clear up.

My predictions.

1) Bell. Has had enough chances.

2) PJ. If he can't get a game now he never will.

3) Miller. Will have to kick 30 more goals for the year to even think of being retained.

4) Dunn. I've been a fan this year, he looks dangerous up forward but wayward kicking may have hurt his chances. I'm predicting that he will go to the rookie list like we did with Newton and Meeson. (if another club doesn't pick him up first)

5) James McDonald. I started a thread earlier in the year saying that he might have another year in him. However we have lots of kids competing for his position and I reckon he will either retire or be asked to retire.

Rookies-

Spencer. Elevated to senior list.

McKenzie. Elevated to senior list.

Hughes. Might have a chance of being retained as our third year rookie if he puts in a good 2nd half of the year. Wouldn't be surprised if he was de-listed though.

Hughes - Hasn't shown enough.

Newton - Time's up

Meeson - The end of a trading error.

The others in doubt.

Bail. Was a certain de-listing at start of year but was good in his games early. Might need to show a bit more to secure his spot.

Bruce. One year contract from here on in.

Cheney, McNamara and Maric are all contracted for 2011 (I think)

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Delist:

Bell

PJ

Miller

Maric (Move to rookie list)

Elevate:

McKenzie

Spencer

(All other current rookies cut)

Draft

1st 3 draft picks

Players in consideration for deisting if not contracted in 2011: Cheney

I dont think Junior will retire this year on current form. At the start of the season I thought so but my mind is changing.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Delist:

Bell

PJ

Miller

Maric (Move to rookie list)

Elevate:

McKenzie

Spencer

(All other current rookies cut)

Draft

1st 3 draft picks

Players in consideration for deisting if not contracted in 2011: Cheney

I dont think Junior will retire this year on current form. At the start of the season I thought so but my mind is changing.

I like that mostly, Rhino.

*PS: I thought Maric was slowly coming along in recent weeks, But this Week End I was very disappointed in some of his commitment to the footy.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

PJ - Delist

Bell - Delist

Miller - Delist

McDonald - I suspect will retire

Petterd - I suspect wll be GC17 bound, but I hope I'm wrong

ROOKIES:

McKenzie - Promote

Spencer - Promote

Healy - Delist

Hughes - Delist

Meesen - Delist

Newton - Delist

This allows Melbourne to draft 3 players in the national draft and 6 rookies in the rookie draft.

TRADE BAIT:

Rivers

[Guest Cougar Magic]

McKenzie and Spencer will be elevated, and i'm predicting we will use our first 3 draft picks.

That's 5 spaces we need to clear up.

My predictions.

1) Bell. Has had enough chances.

2) PJ. If he can't get a game now he never will.

3) Miller. Will have to kick 30 more goals for the year to even think of being retained.

4) Dunn. I've been a fan this year, he looks dangerous up forward but wayward kicking may have hurt his chances. I'm predicting that he will go to the rookie list like we did with Newton and Meeson. (if another club doesn't pick him up first)

5) James McDonald. I started a thread earlier in the year saying that he might have another year in him. However we have lots of kids competing for his position and I reckon he will either retire or be asked to retire.

Rookies-

Spencer. Elevated to senior list.

McKenzie. Elevated to senior list.

Hughes. Might have a chance of being retained as our third year rookie if he puts in a good 2nd half of the year. Wouldn't be surprised if he was de-listed though.

Hughes - Hasn't shown enough.

Newton - Time's up

Meeson - The end of a trading error.

The others in doubt.

Bail. Was a certain de-listing at start of year but was good in his games early. Might need to show a bit more to secure his spot.

Bruce. One year contract from here on in.

Cheney, McNamara and Maric are all contracted for 2011 (I think)

No way Dunn will get delisted. It's not fair how everyone is on his back. If he does though, it will be a mistake because knowing our luck another club will pick him up and he will play well.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Cougar Magic

[Sir Why You Little 36,979]

Keep Lynden Dunn. He needs to find a settled position.

I hope he does, as i still think Dunn is going to step up once the forward line is more settled.

Just Remember nearly every time Lynden has played the forward line has been a patch up job, which makes it difficult to find any rythm.

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

i personally think bruce will retire, anyone else agree?

[armstrong35 262]

i personally think bruce will retire, anyone else agree?

i reckon he will

but i hope he retires on his own terms and was not forced

he has been a good player for us

[Guest watts04]

Be realistic with your delistings

ie - Dunn will not be delisted

I'm still half of the thought he could be our utility and not in our best 22 but handy when injuries occur.

Every club has these blokes.......

Maybe still our tagger as well

[Guest watts04]

Also Bruce will not be delisted or retire

Think he is still contracted for next year as well

[jayceebee31 759]

i personally think bruce will retire, anyone else agree?

I think that Bruce may retire- having problems keeping up with the pace of the game.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Also Bruce will not be delisted or retire

Think he is still contracted for next year as well

I think this is close,

Michael Newton - Oct 2010 – rookie?

Meesen - 2010 – rookie?

Daniel Bell - Oct 2010

Clint Bartram - 2010

Cameron Bruce - Oct 2010

PJ – 2010?

Rohan Bail - 2010

Matthew Bate - Oct 2010

Sam Blease 2010

Lynden Dunn - 2010?

Colin Garland - October 2010

Mark Jamar - October 2010

Nathan Jones - October 2010

Ricky Petterd - October 2010

Junior McDonald - 2010

Brad Miller - Oct 2010

[Seinfeld 40]

If Bleese does not get over his injury or fails to impress then he may be moved to the rookie list.

[Yencks 8]

I hope Bruce and McDonald stay on. Both have been extremely good this year. A lot of us are a bit harsh on Bruce, including myself, but he clearly does the role that the coaches ask of him each week.

Look at his B&F placings over the last couple of years.

No need to delist Maric just yet in my opinion.

Spencer is an interesting one. Could he stay on as a third year rookie? Would like to see a bit more development here.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

TRADE BAIT:

Rivers

Get you a pick between 35 to 50 if you did and there were buyers.

If Bleese does not get over his injury or fails to impress then he may be moved to the rookie list.

Good thought unless MFC do see him as a sure thing to get game time next year. However he is OOC and possibly at risk to walk (hobble!) to another club in the PSD.

Also Bruce will not be delisted or retire

Think he is still contracted for next year as well

His contract expires end of 2010.

ie - Dunn will not be delisted

I'm still half of the thought he could be our utility and not in our best 22 but handy when injuries occur.

Every club has these blokes.......

I think he is contracted for 2011. However if he cant be more than depth in 2011 then he may struggle to stay on the list.

[Guest watts04]

Harsh on Blease and Bruce, both guarantees to be with us next year on the main list

Be good to see the back of Newton

[RalphiusMaximus 6,024]

Interesting problem to have really. I think it is a very good thing that we struggle to find players to delist at season's end. We are required to clear 3 spots on our list aren't we?

Here's my thoughts on possible outcomes:

Delisted.

PJ - I wish it weren't so. He is a man mountain with great agility, but his skills just aren't good enough. THey seem to be trying to train him for positions other than ruck down at Casey, but from what I've seen of him he's just not good enough.

Bell - He's bulked up a lot since we last saw him play for the seniors. He is now something like a poor man's Moloney. Sadly he doesn't have the speed, kicking or attack to match the build. I doubt we'll see him in Red and Blue again.

Miller - This one is more questionable. Most of us agree that he's not really up to it, but he is at the moment the only strong and mature player in our forward structure. I don't think that's a reason to keep him on the list, but it might be enough to save him for another year, especially if he has a good second half.

Newton - Not much doubt here.

Meesen - See above.

Healey - Has not played a senior game and on what he's showed at Casey isn't going to. The fact that they use him as a tagger does not speak well of his ability.

Retired.

Junior - He's playing brilliantly, and probably could go around another season or two, but in reality he's taking a spot away from a young player who needs experience. I would like to see him retained on staff as an assistant coach or even just in a mentoring role.

Bruce - A bit of an unknown here. He no longer has the athletic attributes he once enjoyed and the flaws in his game are being shown up more and more. However, he is still performing in games and doing specialised jobs for the coaches. Personally I think it is time for him, but who knows what he or the coaching panel think?

Possible trades? Who knows? I wouldn't be surprised if McNamara asked to be traded. He's a pretty decent player, but there's not a lot of room for him in the side as it stands. Maric could be shopped around, but he won't have much value on the trade table given his lack of game time. Dunn may also wish to look elsewhere depending on the Petterd issue. I think there is one place in the forward line for the two of them to fill. Petterd would get the nod I would think, so opportunities may be lacking for Dunn.

We will use picks to elevate Jordie McKenzie and probably Jake Spencer to the main list. I'm not sure on Hughes. He didn't really impress in his two matches so far, but has been repeatedly mentioned as in our long term plans. I have no idea where he'll be at season's end.

Of interest is the form of Clint Bartram. I had him down as a certainty to be gone once his contract ran out, but he has managed to reinvent himself as a back pocket and become a starting 18 player again. He still lacks disposal skill which may come back to haunt him in the future, but for now he's gone from a certain delisting to safe.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I'd really like to see Junior play next year - his current form warrants it (as it's up there with his B&F winning years) and he's an excellent leader. And Dunn, to my mind, is a required player.

Strauss is the one that interests me. I had thought we'd take Zaharakis with pick 19, yet we selected Strauss. How's he going? Is the club happy with his progress?

[drdrake 3,162]

Why would we keep Spencer and delist Johnson. There is no room on your list for a player that can't kick, both will go at years end.

We need to delist 4 from our senior list and this gives us 3 pick plus promoting McKenzie to our senior list.

Gone

Bell

Johnson

All rookies(except McKenzie Promoted)

McNamara(offer rookie spot)

Allow on a spot for either a player to go to GC or Bruce or McDonlad retiring.

Considering our tall defenders it is hard to see Tommy Mc getting a game.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Why would we keep Spencer and delist Johnson. There is no room on your list for a player that can't kick, both will go at years end.

We need to delist 4 from our senior list and this gives us 3 pick plus promoting McKenzie to our senior list.

Gone

Bell

Johnson

All rookies(except McKenzie Promoted)

McNamara(offer rookie spot)

Allow on a spot for either a player to go to GC or Bruce or McDonlad retiring.

Considering our tall defenders it is hard to see Tommy Mc getting a game.

Spencer is 20 year old who can actually ruck and compete physically in contests. He has all the basic attributes for centre ruckwork and he can potentially build into an AFL ruck within 2 to 3 years. PJ is big. However, he cant ruck, cant play forward, is poor above his shoulders. He has been on our list for 5 years and in the AFL for 7 years. What you see is what you get? A player who plays a foot shorter than he is. He has to go.

Given PJ should go also assists Spencer as aside from Gawn, there are no other ruckman on the list to back up Jamar(Excluding Dunn, Miller, Sylvia).

Unless we are expecting to trade for a young AFL ruck with a few years on the clock, I cant see the logic of cutting PJ and Spencer.

[Jack Jack 415]

I think Bruce & McDonald are both on the veterans list at the moment, so either of them going only really opens up a spot on the rookie list. I believe there will be a clearing out of the rookie list (one way or another) come years end, plenty of picks without clearing extra spots, so I have no problems with both staying on next year.

Does anyone know if Green is eligible to be put on the Veteran list next year? Could be a way of effectively swapping a rookie spot for a senior spot?

[Nasher 33,607]

As I've said before I'd target a minimum 5 delistings. Two to be eaten up by Spencer and McKenzie rookie promotions. Cutting Spencer at 20 after a couple of years development seems like a complete waste to me when he's showing that he could be an adequate physical ruckman (even if he's not there yet). Ordinary skills notwithstanding I think he's shown enough to prove that he is at least worth persevering with.

My delistings are fluid and will probably change by year's end. It's already changed a few times this year as the year plays out. Currently as it stands:

Johnson, Bell - these speak for themselves.

Miller - I thought he was gone at the end of last year - was retained for heaven only knows what reason, presumably for his leadership skills. I can forgive a bloke for not being good enough, but his lack of concentration style errors are embarrassing for a bloke at this stage in his career. Had plenty of shots, it's now over.

McNamara - contracted - delist and give the obligatory rookie spot to circumvent the contracted status. Not showing enough at this point and the space on the list is more important to me.

Maric - contracted? - wasn't on my radar until recently, but the fact that he seems so far behind so many other players despite being obviously talented is telling a story about how the FD see him. I might be reading too much into it, but I get the impression he is out of favour and I bet there's a good reason for that. Re-draft in rookie draft if nobody else takes him first.

That's my five. I'd also consider Cheney in Maric's spot (or use both) as I can't see where or how he fits in to the side, but I think with his consisently good VFL form this year, he's more worthy of the shot at the big time than Maric. The remaining rookies (Meesen, Newton, Healey) to be delisted.

On Junior - moving him on does not help our list position, because it would only open up an extra rookie spot due to his veteran status. It would take a lot of convincing to convince me that a player at the very end of the rookie draft is going to be more valuable than our best leader. I'd give him a licence to play on until his body falls apart.

And any thoughts of Bruce retiring or being delisted are wishful thinking and nothing more.

I don't think Blease will be on the radar for being delisted - he's only been on the list for two seasons, so his junior form will still be in the minds of other clubs (moreso than Maric et al). The "hasn't been on the park" argument is fair, but there's still a good chance he's going to be good enough to make it, so the risk of losing him to another club before our rookie picks is much greater. I'd be almost certainly be offering him another contract.