I can't be bothered reading all the posts, but I've never read such myopic discussion on a forum. All the rose coloured glasses that came out today after (our) Jack's 1st appearance was dogmatic to say the least.

Nit Nat - 100 touches in the AFL thus far, 70 clearances. 2 clearances today, 2 goals. Massive leaping, breathtaking athlete and helped by our players kicking him beautiful drop punts to make poor ole Russian feel like a stepladder. Maybe they had a vested interest in the car for mark of the year??

This guy is a generational draft pick - simply put, he is amazing, similar to the Scullgroves. Don't tell me, NOT ONCE! did some of you bemoan the fact the WE didn't pick him 1st.

I did.

Therein lies the flaw that you've just analysed yourself - no-one doubts the ability of Nic Nat, yet so many are so afraid to speak their mind on this forum because they'll be pounced on by tunnel visioned posters that choose to attack the poster rather than the argument.

Many on this topic are kidding themselves.

So are you claiming that someone has attacked you because of your post? I can't see it in any of the responses. Wiseblood has made a direct attack upon the generalisation in your original post, not on you. Today's game was a classic example of the point he (and I) and many others have been making. Nick can do some freakish things, but he goes missing just as often. Today he took two great marks, and did nothing else of note. He had a total of 10 disposals, took only two marks (yes, very good marks), and no goals. Yet in every article I have seen on the game, he has been mentioned. How many of those articles mention Priddis, who did most of the damage in the game? For some reason people are infatuated with this guy to the extent that they rave about his game even if he did nothing of any real note.

I have to say though, that there are some things I question in your earlier post. Firstly, Nick didn't kick any goals today. You seem to have him down for 2. Then there's the bit about him being a "generational draft pick." I really don't think you can make that call yet. There is no doubt that he is an amazing athlete, but he has no footy brain at all, his hands aren't great and his kicking is hit and miss. These are all things that can be fixed, but at this point they are gaping holes in his game that nobody seems to be willing to notice. At this stage in his career, he is the waterboy. He sees the ball and he chases it. If and when he learns to read the game, position himself to advantage, take the ball cleanly on the first grab and hit targets consistently, he will begin living up to your glowing assessment.

So are you claiming that someone has attacked you because of your post? I can't see it in any of the responses. Wiseblood has made a direct attack upon the generalisation in your original post, not on you. Today's game was a classic example of the point he (and I) and many others have been making. Nick can do some freakish things, but he goes missing just as often. Today he took two great marks, and did nothing else of note. He had a total of 10 disposals, took only two marks (yes, very good marks), and no goals. Yet in every article I have seen on the game, he has been mentioned. How many of those articles mention Priddis, who did most of the damage in the game? For some reason people are infatuated with this guy to the extent that they rave about his game even if he did nothing of any real note.

I have to say though, that there are some things I question in your earlier post. Firstly, Nick didn't kick any goals today. You seem to have him down for 2. Then there's the bit about him being a "generational draft pick." I really don't think you can make that call yet. There is no doubt that he is an amazing athlete, but he has no footy brain at all, his hands aren't great and his kicking is hit and miss. These are all things that can be fixed, but at this point they are gaping holes in his game that nobody seems to be willing to notice. At this stage in his career, he is the waterboy. He sees the ball and he chases it. If and when he learns to read the game, position himself to advantage, take the ball cleanly on the first grab and hit targets consistently, he will begin living up to your glowing assessment.

Have a look at Stuurman's? pathetic attempt at a debate. Wiseblood has indeed disagreed with the point and we're healthily having a discussion based on a difference of opinion. Perhaps my post wasn't detailed enough. Nat got 2 clearances in the last quarter that resulted in 2 goals. Our backline set him up with beautiful spinning drop punts that allowed him to take a hanger. The guy is amazing and will continue to develop at an alarming rate.

Let's say we both catch up on this site and have a debrief at the end of the year.

Have a look at Stuurman's? pathetic attempt at a debate. Wiseblood has indeed disagreed with the point and we're healthily having a discussion based on a difference of opinion. Perhaps my post wasn't detailed enough. Nat got 2 clearances in the last quarter that resulted in 2 goals. Our backline set him up with beautiful spinning drop punts that allowed him to take a hanger. The guy is amazing and will continue to develop at an alarming rate.

Let's say we both catch up on this site and have a debrief at the end of the year.

Yeah, because after the end of the year, we will all be able compare the two and have a definitive answer on who is the better pick. You are a Joke.

who mentioned anything about me entering into a debate with you? I made a comment about you comparing scully & trengove to NN and I answered your stupid question.

*sigh*

you are a hack.

Edited May 15, 201015 yr by Sturmmann

Come on guys, lets please move it back to the topic at hand.....

Cheers B) !!!

Come on guys, lets please move it back to the topic at hand.....

Cheers B) !!!

Sure thing.

Jack Watts impressed me today, was not expecting much from him today, but he showed plenty of potential today.

Thanks mate !!!

Yeah, because after the end of the year, we will all be able compare the two and have a definitive answer on who is the better pick. You are a Joke.

who mentioned anything about me entering into a debate with you? I made a comment about you comparing scully & trengove to NN and I answered your stupid question.

*sigh*

you are a hack.

Jumbo made a relevant point (not that I necessarily agree with it), he just didn't get it across in the right manner. Nic Nat is a gun and his comparison to Scully and Trengove was merely to show, I believe, how important he already is to not only his side but the competition as a whole. Like I said though, I don't think Jumbo got his point across properly.

Therein lies the flaw that you've just analysed yourself - no-one doubts the ability of Nic Nat, yet so many are so afraid to speak their mind on this forum because they'll be pounced on by tunnel visioned posters that choose to attack the poster rather than the argument.

Many on this topic are kidding themselves.

Look, I have nothing against people criticising Jack for what's there (example: "he's got a strange kicking action off his left foot - will it stand up under pressure?"). But I reserve the right to call those who try to pass off what's in their imagination as holy writ when it's beyond ridiculous. For some reason that I can't fathom, Jack seems to attract these bizarre pronouncements about his psyche in a way that no other player does in living memory. It's the difference between "even when he calls for the ball, he looks uncertain" (which is what can actually be seen, and which I can disagree with but it's a reasonable comment) and "he doesn't want the ball enough" (which says much more about the poster's psyche than it does about Jack's).

Rose-coloured glasses or not, comparing Naitanui to Scully or Trengove is amazing. Both demons possess wonderful football brains and execute (almost always) their skills efficiently, whereas Naitanui (as some have said) is patchy with disposal, decision making and many other facets of his game. Being a brilliant athlete won't necessarily cut it for a decade at this level. He will have to improve his know-how, execution by both foot and hand, and keep himself involved in the game for longer periods of time.

By comparison, Watts has all the skills, the decision making and will have the midfield at his disposal to forge an exciting career at the MFC. Do I regret we took Jack instead of Nic? I'd take Jack ten times out of ten.

Naitanui is breathtaking, and when he does something it's hard not to go "wow". Think Jurrah.

Perhaps if Jack Watts were a black man then we would say "wow" more and marvel at his skills. Being white, however, means he is harder to pick out.

Nic Nat hype by the media is a joke.

He's a great athlete no doubt......but his output is completely out of whack with his inflated profile at the minute.

I would have Watts over Nic Nat in a heart beat.

SERIOUSLY can we just remove this jack watts topic.....lets finish this whole debate here...jack watts is [censored] 19 - HE is jst a kid for [censored] sake and from injuries has had setbacks....he will be a superstar and will be so so so so so so so so much better than nic nat who will also be a great player....for god sake we clearly piked the best player in the 08 draft....jst get behind him!

This guy is a generational draft pick - simply put, he is amazing, similar to the Scullgroves. Don't tell me, NOT ONCE! did some of you bemoan the fact the WE didn't pick him 1st.

I did.

How do you figure that? Do you actually believe he is as good as either Scully or Trengove or are you basing this on what you perceive he will, or may be?

Both Scully and Trengove are natural footballers Natanui is not, he is a big physical unit but without that would struggle to get a game at senior level. He seems to have some in the media mesmerized and in fact got the best on round earlier this year when Cox was by far the better of the two. He is capable of crashing packs and forcing the ball forward which looks spectacular but how often does he actually get his hands on it and how many time does he fumble? We hear that the kicking and marking problems can be worked on and remedied but how often have we heard that, some players, in fact a lot never get their kicking right and he seems incapable of taking more than one or two marks a game.

I don't have a problem with him and would like to have him in the side but not at the expense of Jack. jack will still be a footballer when Nik Nat has lost his physicality and I would prefer to have the ball in Jack's hands when he takes a mark in the forward line than Nik Nats. I'm sure that at the end of his career Nik Nat will have a cabinet full of trophies for mark of the day or goal of the day but Jack will have his medals from his premiership wins.

Very impressed with Jack Watts yesterday. Everything he did yesterday was with class. Few good contested marks. Reads the ball well off the ground. Quick hands. We've got a beauty on our hands.

How do you figure that? Do you actually believe he is as good as either Scully or Trengove or are you basing this on what you perceive he will, or may be?

Both Scully and Trengove are natural footballers Natanui is not, he is a big physical unit but without that would struggle to get a game at senior level. He seems to have some in the media mesmerized and in fact got the best on round earlier this year when Cox was by far the better of the two. He is capable of crashing packs and forcing the ball forward which looks spectacular but how often does he actually get his hands on it and how many time does he fumble? We hear that the kicking and marking problems can be worked on and remedied but how often have we heard that, some players, in fact a lot never get their kicking right and he seems incapable of taking more than one or two marks a game.

I don't have a problem with him and would like to have him in the side but not at the expense of Jack. jack will still be a footballer when Nik Nat has lost his physicality and I would prefer to have the ball in Jack's hands when he takes a mark in the forward line than Nik Nats. I'm sure that at the end of his career Nik Nat will have a cabinet full of trophies for mark of the day or goal of the day but Jack will have his medals from his premiership wins.

When Dean Cox arrived at WC several years ago there's a story going around that he couldn't even bounce the ball. Five years later, he was favourite for the Brownlow. Nat will learn his craft. Cox and Nic Nat gave it to Jamar yesterday and in the last quarter when the game was there to be won (or lost) in our case, Nic Nat went into the ruck, got 2 clearances that resulted in 2 goals - game over. What I've been trying to say all along is that, IMO, he was a standout for 1st pick, just as Scully and Trengove picked themselves. I'd like to open this debate again at the end of the year and hopefully eat some humble pie, but we can't get away from the fact of what could have been.

Yeah, because after the end of the year, we will all be able compare the two and have a definitive answer on who is the better pick. You are a Joke.

who mentioned anything about me entering into a debate with you? I made a comment about you comparing scully & trengove to NN and I answered your stupid question.

*sigh*

you are a hack.

Absolute articulation at its best.

Very impressed with Jack Watts yesterday. Everything he did yesterday was with class. Few good contested marks. Reads the ball well off the ground. Quick hands. We've got a beauty on our hands.

Yeah, I agree. It's going to be an absolute pleasure watching this kid develop.

When Dean Cox arrived at WC several years ago there's a story going around that he couldn't even bounce the ball. Five years later, he was favourite for the Brownlow. Nat will learn his craft. Cox and Nic Nat gave it to Jamar yesterday and in the last quarter when the game was there to be won (or lost) in our case, Nic Nat went into the ruck, got 2 clearances that resulted in 2 goals - game over. What I've been trying to say all along is that, IMO, he was a standout for 1st pick, just as Scully and Trengove picked themselves. I'd like to open this debate again at the end of the year and hopefully eat some humble pie, but we can't get away from the fact of what could have been.

But I would ask you this. Imagine you could pick Dean Cox or Nick Riewoldt in the team we played yesterday. Which of those two would have had the most impact on us winning yesterday if they were in our side. In my opinion, it would have been the latter. Thus, I would argue that Jack Watts was the correct pick. Nick Naitanui's best ever game will probably be better than Jack Watts', yet Jack will probably score three or four times as many goals in his career than NicNat, and his biggest haul in a game will probably be larger than Naitanui's biggest, too. Again, this suggests Watts was the better pick for us. This is not a question of "which one of them is good," or even "which one will be good," but rather, "which one will help his team win the most games?" In my opinion, the long-haul answer to that question will undoubtedly be Jack Watts.

But I would ask you this. Imagine you could pick Dean Cox or Nick Riewoldt in the team we played yesterday. Which of those two would have had the most impact on us winning yesterday if they were in our side. In my opinion, it would have been the latter. Thus, I would argue that Jack Watts was the correct pick. Nick Naitanui's best ever game will probably be better than Jack Watts', yet Jack will probably score three or four times as many goals in his career than NicNat, and his biggest haul in a game will probably be larger than Naitanui's biggest, too. Again, this suggests Watts was the better pick for us. This is not a question of "which one of them is good," or even "which one will be good," but rather, "which one will help his team win the most games?" In my opinion, the long-haul answer to that question will undoubtedly be Jack Watts.

You raise some excellent points. Jack probably will kick more goals because he'll spend most of his time in the forward line, but as I see it ATM, you need to get the ball down there. Seriously, West Coast's forward line was full of second stringers yesterday, I only rate Le Cras (if he had kicked straight, it was game over at half time) yet Naitanui gets his own clearances that allow scoring opportunities.

I still contend that this debate will not be answered on this forum, but played out over the season.

Put yourself in his shoes, and imagine the sort of external pressure he is feeling from the lunatics in the media and from his own supporters. He is a kid, a baby. At 19 I could barely tell my head from my arse, and this guy is meant to be the messiah.

He will be a very very very good footballer, maybe elite, maybe a generational forward. The proof was out there for everyone with an ounce of football intelligence to see.

So please, move on.

I got to the game in the 2nd half of the 2nd quarter.

From what I saw, for mine, Watts looked out of place - with an odd, hulking body posture (somewhat reminiscent of Kepler Bradley? god help us).

He will take some years.

Jack played a good game today. His contested Marks were great, must learn to run harder to create a target, but this will happen in the coming weeks i have no doubt.

Keep working hard Jack.

I agree with the above. He showed great signs but needs to run and demand more. Will come with a bigger motor. Hopefully soon. With a bit of self belief and stamina he will dominate.

Put yourself in his shoes, and imagine the sort of external pressure he is feeling from the lunatics in the media and from his own supporters. He is a kid, a baby. At 19 I could barely tell my head from my arse...

Um Jaded, wasn't that last year?

Um Jaded, wasn't that last year?

Blame the alcohol

Edited May 16, 201015 yr by Jaded

You raise some excellent points. Jack probably will kick more goals because he'll spend most of his time in the forward line, but as I see it ATM, you need to get the ball down there. Seriously, West Coast's forward line was full of second stringers yesterday, I only rate Le Cras (if he had kicked straight, it was game over at half time) yet Naitanui gets his own clearances that allow scoring opportunities.

I still contend that this debate will not be answered on this forum, but played out over the season.

The answer to the question who is the better player or who should Melbourne of drafter probably wont be know for another 6 to 8 years at least. But I am suprised that you would say you already wish Melbourne had of selected Nik Nat, I for one am very comfortable with their decission.

As far as Melbourne's ruck stocks go we have Russian is red hot form and a couple of beautys waiting in the wings in a few years time in Gawn and Fitzpatrick. We desperatly lack key forwards and if the FD saw Watts and Natinui as equals then it made sense for them to go the key forward, and the fact he doesn't have the go home factor makes it all the more reasuring. We don't want another Darren Jarman, Jeff Farmer, Scott Thompson incident.

IMO Watts will most likely be the more consistent and decorated footballer, while Natinui will have his bursts of brilliance and be a more flashy player ala Leon Davis or one of those types of players.

Edited May 16, 201015 yr by Tall Defence