Demonology .v. Demonland

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

If i honestly believe a lot of our players,coaches or tactics are not up to scratch then shouldnt i be able to say that bluntly if i want to, without having to sugar coat it?

Where do you draw the line between being rational and being negligent?

Not meaning to weigh in to someone else's conversation, but this got me thinking.

Why shouldn't you be able to say it bluntly? Because it's a public forum. I don't think any Mod tried to stop anyone from criticising Miller. It's the MANNER in which he's criticised that breaks the rules. People get emotional (and in the heat of a match-day thread I think they turn a blind eye), but there HAS to be threshold. I think if you write something that you'd have no problem saying to Miller's face, then that's a good general rule. But then... some people are kind of spoiling for a beating. :D

Your last sentence is interesting too. This IS just a fan website. It's SUPPOSED to be fun, for everyone. And when fans of Miller's (and there are many, myself included) come on here, they may feel the need to vacate simply because of the "venting" of other posters.

Like I say, I don't represent the mods. But I've had a pretty good understanding of what you can get away with. Recently they've instituted new rules that tighten things around here, but so far, it hasn't harmed the site, club, or players' reputations.

[Hobbits's 17]

couldn't agree more with what you've posted dappa.

the rules stipulate that you can criticise as long as it is constructive and that you can support your argument in a manner which presents well. or words to that effect is how i interpret it anyway.

if the mods see anything that crosses the line they'll mst likely deal with it by deleting or warning that poster i'd imagine. even banning in the extreme sense one would assume.

can't see why some beg to differ.

edit;gramma

Edited March 24, 2010 by Grimes to Watts

[bing181 9,004]

If i honestly believe a lot of our players,coaches or tactics are not up to scratch then shouldnt i be able to say that bluntly if i want to

Say it, of course, but bang on about it in every other post gets tiresome.

And if you do honestly believe that a lot of our players, coaches or tactics are not up to scratch, then that doesn't leave much. You like the colours of the jumper?

B

[stranga 328]

Not meaning to weigh in to someone else's conversation, but this got me thinking.

Why shouldn't you be able to say it bluntly? Because it's a public forum. I don't think any Mod tried to stop anyone from criticising Miller. It's the MANNER in which he's criticised that breaks the rules. People get emotional (and in the heat of a match-day thread I think they turn a blind eye), but there HAS to be threshold. I think if you write something that you'd have no problem saying to Miller's face, then that's a good general rule. But then... some people are kind of spoiling for a beating. :D

Your last sentence is interesting too. This IS just a fan website. It's SUPPOSED to be fun, for everyone. And when fans of Miller's (and there are many, myself included) come on here, they may feel the need to vacate simply because of the "venting" of other posters.

Like I say, I don't represent the mods. But I've had a pretty good understanding of what you can get away with. Recently they've instituted new rules that tighten things around here, but so far, it hasn't harmed the site, club, or players' reputations.

Fair points Dappa. People have different sensitivity to issues and want different things from a forum like this so its difficult to find that medium point. For example should words like dud and crap be seen as offensive or inappropriate when discussing a players ability? I would say no but many would say yes.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

I don't mind the healthy criticism rule here. It makes me bite my tongue where I might not on a place like 'Ology.

[dee-luded 2,959]

And if we disagree shouldn't we be allowed to say so. Suck it up princess. Say what you want but don't expect everyone to agree. You could try backing up your opinions with reasons, just saying Brad Miller sucks 100 times adds nothing to the debate.

Who said its a debate?

Just because someone attends a chatroom doesn't mean there their to debate anything, but they may just want to put out an opinion, they don't have to be drawn into debating it.

Why should those who wish to be more aggressive behind an invisable screen choose to dominate proceedings without regard for others wishes.

[skills32 229]

What a great summation Dappa. Exactly the way posters should behave at Demonology.

As far as joining Ology, Tim, the owner has been ill for the last couple of years and this occurred in the middle of a rewrite of the site. I am led to believe that the site will be joinable in the near future.

[furious d 448]

Who said its a debate?

Just because someone attends a chatroom doesn't mean there their to debate anything, but they may just want to put out an opinion, they don't have to be drawn into debating it.

Why should those who wish to be more aggressive behind an invisable screen choose to dominate proceedings without regard for others wishes.

If theer is an arguement going on and you add your opinion you've added to a debate whether you stick around and debate it further or not. If you're going to be a ridiculous pedant at least get it right.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

couldn't agree more with what you've posted dappa.

the rules stipulate that you can criticise as long as it is constructive and that you can support your argument in a manner which presents well. or words to that effect is how i interpret it anyway.

if the mods see anything that crosses the line they'll mst likely deal with it by deleting or warning that poster i'd imagine. even banning in the extreme sense one would assume.

can't see why some beg to differ.

edit;gramma

Freedom of speech is the reason, of course. And a valid one. But there are those that take that freedom too far.

Fair points Dappa. People have different sensitivity to issues and want different things from a forum like this so its difficult to find that medium point. For example should words like dud and crap be seen as offensive or inappropriate when discussing a players ability? I would say no but many would say yes.

Yep. That about sums it up. Personally I can't see myself getting upset with those words either, but context is a funny thing. Call Miller crap 80 times in one thread, and hat MAY be thought of as excessive. :D

Part of the problem here is that the Aussie education system has enabled a LOT of people to be good with their words. Sometimes certain posters can so artfully stick the boot in to a player, you actually feel for them.

Still... You should try going to America if you want a freedom of speech experiment (or lack thereof). I've been here for about 3 years. The vast majority of yanks make me believe I could run this place in my sleep. Terrifying.

[Supermercado 2,784]

What about BF? As a native BF'er, and having posted there years before here or 'ology, I can't understand why it's so hated. There's a fair proportion of muppets but let the forum without clowns cast the first stone.

Is the issue with opposition fans coming in and talking garbage? I'd expect it to happen more than it actually does.

[Milesh 26]

When the other forum operates without the basic tools needed to properly supervise and manage the community, it's a no contest.

Many traits of Demonology could have been used to inspire a George Orwell novel.

I look forward to my stay and engaging in sane discussion!

[satyricon 267]

I just thought I would put my two bob's worth in.

I left posting to this site last year, because of the way it was going, it seemed to me personally, that the site was being hijacked by a small group of posters, who would not let anybody have an opinion different to theirs without abusing them.

I kept reading and found that this was being controlled and that the behavious only happens very rarely.

It is quite easy to hide behind an anonymous username and abuse others, some do it for gratification, others to mask their own inadequacies, and I read what others have said, I just don't read the post it is abusive (of course I have to read the first bit to see it is going that way) or react to it, unless I can do it humourously.

Unfortunately Denonlogy is suffering from no new input from new members, so it has been hijacked by a small group of people, this board at the moment absolutely kills it for 'real' discussion on all things Melbournefc and footy.

As an old fart though, just a note, age does not necessarily mean conservatism, as you grow older it's just your [censored] detector works a lot better.

[Hobbits's 17]

When the other forum operates without the basic tools needed to properly supervise and manage the community, it's a no contest.

Many traits of Demonology could have been used to inspire a George Orwell novel.

I look forward to my stay and engaging in sane discussion!

welcome. like the avatar, where is that taken ? japan ?

[Milesh 26]

Judging by the furlong pole in the picture I'd guess the States.

[Trisul 664]

What about BF? As a native BF'er, and having posted there years before here or 'ology, I can't understand why it's so hated. There's a fair proportion of muppets but let the forum without clowns cast the first stone.

Is the issue with opposition fans coming in and talking garbage? I'd expect it to happen more than it actually does.

I've found the quality of the BF MFC posts/posters to be quite good, however there's only half a dozen (usually less) 'recent' posts to read so I end up leaving pretty quickly.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Trident

[Lost Highway 31]

At this very moment, 2:40pm Thursday, Demonology is tearing itself apart. The manager is apparently very ill and there is a vicious flaming dispute going on between two members. There's very little on there about football and some members appear to be considering jumping ship. One member appears to be flaming vehemently in any thread that goes up. Hard to see it lasting if that keeps up.

[hardtack 10,423]

At this very moment, 2:40pm Thursday, Demonology is tearing itself apart. The manager is apparently very ill and there is a vicious flaming dispute going on between two members. There's very little on there about football and some members appear to be considering jumping ship. One member appears to be flaming vehemently in any thread that goes up. Hard to see it lasting if that keeps up.

That member was banned for life recently after an out-of-control spate of posts, but as there is no way of enforcing the ban other than a site administrator removing his posts as and when they appear, there is no way of stopping him. Sadly, unless something is done, that could spell an end to Demonology which I think would be grossly unfair to Tim, who has dedicated himself to the site whenever his health has allowed.

Edited March 25, 2010 by hardtack

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I doubt it'd be the end of demonology, but things will change pretty quick when they realise there's nowhere for them all to go.

[hardtack 10,423]

I doubt it'd be the end of demonology, but things will change pretty quick when they realise there's nowhere for them all to go.

Actually, I believe he has considered pulling the plug in the past, and today's particularly nasty episode may just be the proverbial straw. And I suppose the relevance here is that the poster under discussion is a member of Demonland as well (or so he says), and given the sociopathic nature of his attacks, there is no reason he may not take the same route on this site given the right (or wrong) set of circumstances.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Actually, I believe he has considered pulling the plug in the past, and today's particularly nasty episode may just be the proverbial straw. And I suppose the relevance here is that the poster under discussion is a member of Demonland as well (or so he says), and given the sociopathic nature of his attacks, there is no reason he may not take the same route on this site given the right (or wrong) set of circumstances.

He'd last ten minutes here if he acted like that.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Most of the problems at Ology stem from the lack of Moderators and the reluctance of those that are there to do the job. If the do Moderate they are criticised if they don't they are criticised. There’s too much slagging off at times and schoolyard discipline at others.

Ology has and still could be a good site, but the posters have to stick to the point at hand and forget trying to settle old scores. I haven't spent enough time on this board to be able to tell if it suffers from the same problem but from what I've read here it has a lot less.

This latest problem could have been nipped in the bud some time ago but it has festered to the stage where the board is unreadable. Posters should comment on the point of the thread and not on the poster and his previous position on other matters.

[satyricon 267]

Actually, I believe he has considered pulling the plug in the past, and today's particularly nasty episode may just be the proverbial straw. And I suppose the relevance here is that the poster under discussion is a member of Demonland as well (or so he says), and given the sociopathic nature of his attacks, there is no reason he may not take the same route on this site given the right (or wrong) set of circumstances.

It is quite easy to deal with the problem, either ignore the post, so it sits there with 0 replies, end of problem, or take the [censored] and then ignore, they soon get sick of being ignored, they may be sociopathic but they need the attention also

[hardtack 10,423]

It is quite easy to deal with the problem, either ignore the post, so it sits there with 0 replies, end of problem, or take the [censored] and then ignore, they soon get sick of being ignored, they may be sociopathic but they need the attention also

Would be nice if it was just a single post, but he is doing it on almost every single thread in the Footy Forum, and every time a moderator removes the offending post, or any time someone adds a comment relevant to the thread, he posts again to ensure maximum disruption.

[satyricon 267]

Would be nice if it was just a single post, but he is doing it on almost every single thread in the Footy Forum, and every time a moderator removes the offending post, or any time someone adds a comment relevant to the thread, he posts again to ensure maximum disruption.

Sorry hadn't looked at the site since he started, didn't realise he had no life and could look at it every few seconds, another alternative which I think a lot of boards should try to send out a lesson, is report it to Polica, there are offences about using a carriage service, not sure whether it is covered though, but worth a try.

[Keyser Söze 0]

I've found the quality of the BF MFC posts/posters to be quite good, however there's only half a dozen (usually less) 'recent' posts to read so I end up leaving pretty quickly.

hahaha

I saw Enforcer25 (if it's the same one - how many can there be?) on BF a few months back have an epic battle with some other flogs over the issue of tanking.

I think in the end he managed to pummel them into submission by exhaustion.

I rarely ever read it though, because there is just way too much carp to trawl through.