How Can We Improve From Sunday?

[2014-Flag 0]

Accepting last night performance was abysmal, what areas can we realistically look to improve

1. several key players weren't there, many of them play makers:

Cameron Bruce - his experience would have been invaluable

Wonna - we really lacked a fast crumbing forward

Jack Watts - a fast leading, high marking forward is desperately needed. We were thrashed on the full forward

line, with Brad Miller being the only one to provide any sort of contest.

Matthew Bate always provides a contest, and this more than anything else was what was missing up forward

2. The forward set up was pathetic, but it was nothing like the "ideal" that we should be expecting during the season. What is this?

HF: Trengrove Miller Davey

FF: Bate Watts Jurrah

A very different set up from what we saw last night.

3. Liam Jurrah had a shocker. We are not used to this. It was either an aberation, second year blues, a big head, or just one of

those things. From what we know of Liam, and how he is being developed and mentored at the club, I would bet on

the last. He has huge improvement to give, and will do so.Watch him play blinders in the remaining practice

matches.

4. The rucks were thrashed. Don't forget our three top ruckmen were missing - Jamar, Johnson and in the longer term Gawn. In the

long term, Gawn is the answer to the Sandilands problem - play fire with fire, and with most other sides besides

Fremantle, our opposition will have the problem we had last night. Good recruiting by the club.

5. The area where we should be expecting immediate improved performance ie our experienced players and those with 3-6 years

experience were seriously missing on Sunday night. I am thinking of Jones, MacDonald, Maric, Martin (although I

an impossible task against Sandilands, in the right position he will be serviceable), Maloney, Warnock and to a

lessor extent Rivers. A real dissappointment was Sylvia who looked like he did three years ago.

6. Our young players maybe were less ready than we expected. Watching other first year players starring for other clubs in the NAB

Cup games raised our expectations about our new blood. None of them were any better than average players although

they will come on. Scully in particular looks raw, he was continually caught in possession a bit like Jones is,

but he will no doubt improve, but certainly none of them look like game breakers the way some other first year

players have have shown for the Swans, Eagles, and Kangas.

Overall there is much room for improvement, including the execution of the gameplan.

I think we can all ligitimately expect very much improved performances in the remaining NAB Challenge matches. If there is not, then I think questions should, and must be asked

[damon the demon 57]

I agree with most of what written above but the main thing we need is a GAME PLAN. I know we've all been saying it for years but I'll say it again just in case anyone in the world is not aware that our game plan sucks! Watching the game on TV is hard as you can't see up the field but i could not believe that we'd continue to go backwards and sideways. And we have been doing it for years as well as overusing the handball and handballing to a guy under pressure. Bails please for the collective sanity of the 30,000 people who love this club teach the guys to use the ball better!!! Learn to run into space up the field, use the criss cross thing that Geelong always does you know where they run diagnally in front of the ball carrier etc. and of course manning up has always been another of our issues. if i have to sit through another game hearing that old bloke yell "MAN UP" 100 times i will have a total meltdown. You know the guy he sits in the red seats and gets (understandably) very irritated with our crappy zone defence which simply doesn't work and in turn annoys the crap out of everyone else and also gives some people concern that he may indeed die of a heart attack. come on bails and co if this guys dies of a heart attack from yelling out "MAN UP" too often it will be your fault!! you don't want to kill him do you? so please guys it's time to LIFT.

OK rant over.

[Keyser Söze 0]

noise

How do you know our gameplan sucks?

I'm not sure that we've ever seen it properly implemented.

Considering over the past 2 years that Bailey has been attempting to use it, we've had players executing it that were, for the most part, either kids or sub-standard senior players.

Still people refuse to realize how much time must be given to a coach in Bailey's position.

Last year we saw marginal improvement on the previous year; this year we will see the same.

[Footynut 302]

How do you know our gameplan sucks?

I'm not sure that we've ever seen it properly implemented.

Considering over the past 2 years that Bailey has been attempting to use it, we've had players executing it that were, for the most part, either kids or sub-standard senior players.

Still people refuse to realize how much time must be given to a coach in Bailey's position.

Last year we saw marginal improvement on the previous year; this year we will see the same.

As usual you make way too much sense KS....

What we need is more hysterical reactions to us performing as we did last night when people on this board had talked us into a premiership this year...

[timD 994]

I think that a lot can change quickly. Basic stuff like holding chest marks and not being garbage will do it. Love to see Strauss start on the ground. Also need to really focus on physically competitive midfield. Get into the fight from the start and start hitting bodies and winning the footy. Just do the simple stuff well. When you start winning footy and winning contests, you'd hope that game plan starts to come more easily.

[Kiss of Death 747]

Watching the game on TV is hard as you can't see up the field

I'm more worried about the fact that they'd be too busy showing somebody getting rubbed on the boundary line for 20 seconds while you can hear the players playing, the umpires whistling and when they do eventually get back to it, the camera angles barely pick up the current players with the ball let alone the downfield options. I wasn't the only person grumbling about it, that's for sure.

All I want to see out of the next game (besides a win, obviously) is an increase in intensity, the older hands carrying the team rather than expecting the younger ones to lift them, and better work around the stoppages. No point winning the ball if all you do is kick it in a pressure situation as a high floater to a non-existent half forward line, only for it to be run out with ease by the three opposition players that are running to the drop of the ball, our forwards a couple of metres behind.

Even though it's at Vi$y Park, at least we're in Melbourne next week! See you all there. Hopefully we'll put on a show, like Grimesy did against the Swans last year there.

[BLWNBA 928]

As KS said a lot will be rectified with time however in terms of the specificity of what needs to be improved I believe it comes down to this:

Rucks- Need our senior ruckmen ie Jamar/Johnson to be fit and upfiring. Playing one of this players and teaching a younger player such as Spencer will be invaluable to our long term success. Spencer/Martin need to learn not only to ruck but to also be able work around the ground and when the ball goes wide push hard down the ground into the goal square. Our younger ruck stocks will also improve as they gain more game time.

Forward Line- Despite what many think our forward line is starting to have some structure towards it, however it is lacking a big bodied player that can stand up as a power forward (think Lloyd, Neitz, Rocca etc). With the addition of a player like this it can allow players such as Bate, Jurrah, Miller or even Green to play to there strengths as hard leading flankers being able to place dummy leads or as a second or third tall option. Hopefully down the line Watts or Morton will be able to become these players. In terms of crumbing players we do have some talent ie. Petterd (I think he can play this role well), Jetta, Davey (if played down forward) and Wonaeamirri.

Senior Players- Though it can't be expected that everyone of these players will stand up and shine in every match of the season they do need to show some heart and ticker, and also footy smarts in matches. Actions on a footy field are infectious and if one player stands up then so does another, and another, and another, and so on and so forth. On Sunday I found it to be a major difference between the two sides. Fremantles seniors (Hayden, Pav, Sandilands, Duffield, Haselby, Hayden) were fantastic while our seniors players at times were outdone.

I'll be looking at the game this week against Essendon hoping that there will be some improvment in these areas. I'm not expecting miracles, especially in terms of the fwd line, however I believe we are a much better side than what we displayed against Fremantle. Looking at Sundays side on paper it really appeared to be a team that would could have brought more to the game.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Still people refuse to realize how much time must be given to a coach in Bailey's position.

Last year we saw marginal improvement on the previous year; this year we will see the same.

At the same time, I worry a bit when he's had a few years and the gameplan only showed signs of sinking into the players' minds. Coaches can be fired for being sub-par (Wallace), but it's just as bad if he has a good message to send, but has lost his players (or never had them in the first place).

Like most grown ups, I'm not panicking yet. More just depressed that the reality no-one wanted to talk about here has hit home, at least partically.

[2014-Flag 0]

How do you know our gameplan sucks?

I'm not sure that we've ever seen it properly implemented.

Considering over the past 2 years that Bailey has been attempting to use it, we've had players executing it that were, for the most part, either kids or sub-standard senior players.

Still people refuse to realize how much time must be given to a coach in Bailey's position.

Last year we saw marginal improvement on the previous year; this year we will see the same.

I've only seen the gameplan implemented twice - against Freo and Port last year. What we had then which we didn't have on sunday was continuous run. This chipping around reminds me of Collingwood at their worst. Melbourne's recent success ie between 2000 and 2005 was based on relentless running, possession, and long kicking mixed in because we had a key forward ie David Neitz who could be relied upon to make a contest and often win it. If not, the crumbers, Farmer and Davey would get possession and often score.

This current side chips it around, often loses possession through poor skill, but does virtually no long kicking into the forward line because at the momnent it has no dominant key forward. This is where Watts is the big hope, and a full forward line of Jurrah, Watts and Bate will provide a considerable challenge for opposition teams.

It would be nice though to see this team begin to practice a more positive gameplan, even while it is waiting for its eventual gamebreakers to arrive.

By the way, in the absence of Watts I would put either the Russian or Jonno down there. Both have at times provided considerable marking power and at least we could practice the eventual plan and see if it works.

The scary thing though is if this is just a fantasy. What if Baily thinks chipping and possession are what wins football matches? Maybe this is how he wants them to play, it is just they are not very good at it? Now that is scary!

Edited February 22, 2010 by 2014-Flag

[Craig Drinker 179]

Accepting last night performance was abysmal, what areas can we realistically look to improve

1. several key players weren't there, many of them play makers:

Cameron Bruce - his experience would have been invaluable

Wonna - we really lacked a fast crumbing forward

Jack Watts - a fast leading, high marking forward is desperately needed. We were thrashed on the full forward

line, with Brad Miller being the only one to provide any sort of contest.

Matthew Bate always provides a contest, and this more than anything else was what was missing up forward

2. The forward set up was pathetic, but it was nothing like the "ideal" that we should be expecting during the season. What is this?

HF: Trengrove Miller Davey

FF: Bate Watts Jurrah

A very different set up from what we saw last night.

3. Liam Jurrah had a shocker. We are not used to this. It was either an aberation, second year blues, a big head, or just one of

those things. From what we know of Liam, and how he is being developed and mentored at the club, I would bet on

the last. He has huge improvement to give, and will do so.Watch him play blinders in the remaining practice

matches.

4. The rucks were thrashed. Don't forget our three top ruckmen were missing - Jamar, Johnson and in the longer term Gawn. In the

long term, Gawn is the answer to the Sandilands problem - play fire with fire, and with most other sides besides

Fremantle, our opposition will have the problem we had last night. Good recruiting by the club.

5. The area where we should be expecting immediate improved performance ie our experienced players and those with 3-6 years

experience were seriously missing on Sunday night. I am thinking of Jones, MacDonald, Maric, Martin (although I

an impossible task against Sandilands, in the right position he will be serviceable), Maloney, Warnock and to a

lessor extent Rivers. A real dissappointment was Sylvia who looked like he did three years ago.

6. Our young players maybe were less ready than we expected. Watching other first year players starring for other clubs in the NAB

Cup games raised our expectations about our new blood. None of them were any better than average players although

they will come on. Scully in particular looks raw, he was continually caught in possession a bit like Jones is,

but he will no doubt improve, but certainly none of them look like game breakers the way some other first year

players have have shown for the Swans, Eagles, and Kangas.

Overall there is much room for improvement, including the execution of the gameplan.

I think we can all legitimately expect very much improved performances in the remaining NAB Challenge matches. If there is not, then I think questions should, and must be asked

You make some good points however I disagree greatly with your view on Scully.I thought he was exceptional for a 1st gamer at this level!

We've certainly hit the jackpot with him and Trengove IMO even though it is early days yet.

I think we will probably see some more experimenting in the upcoming game against Essendon (as we should ,there are no 4 points at stake here).

I would like to see Gysberts given a run on the weekend.

[Clanger King 9]

Hille Ryder Dempsey Myers and maybe Gumbelton in this week against the Dees.

Players for Melbourne who i think will miss:

Scully (rest)

Davey (sore)

Spencer (hip)

Fitzpatrick (rest)

Players for Melbourne who i think will come in:

Gysberts

Bell

Jamar

Bartram

[armstrong35 262]

new game plan for sure

did anyone else see james mcdonald have the ball on the 50 meter line and have no one to kick to?

was just shocking

cant bailey see his plan isnt working

[stranga 328]

Hille Ryder Dempsey Myers and maybe Gumbelton in this week against the Dees.

Players for Melbourne who i think will miss:

Scully (rest)

Davey (sore)

Spencer (hip)

Fitzpatrick (rest)

Players for Melbourne who i think will come in:

Gysberts

Bell

Jamar

Bartram

Given the short turn around i reckon Bail and Mcnamara will come in also.

[H_T 3,043]

new game plan for sure

did anyone else see james mcdonald have the ball on the 50 meter line and have no one to kick to?

was just shocking

cant bailey see his plan isnt working

In that instance though there was barely 30 seconds left of that quarter. Everyone had been instructed to fill holes to minimise the chance of Freo scoring again before the siren. It just so happens that one of our players intercepted/spoiled the ball whilst freo were kicking it around their back half.

McDonald quite rightly held the ball up for a few seconds for someone to overlap, which was Rivers. Rivers got boot to ball for a point.

Poor example.

[Keyser Söze 0]

At the same time, I worry a bit when he's had a few years and the gameplan only showed signs of sinking into the players' minds. Coaches can be fired for being sub-par (Wallace), but it's just as bad if he has a good message to send, but has lost his players (or never had them in the first place).

Like most grown ups, I'm not panicking yet. More just depressed that the reality no-one wanted to talk about here has hit home, at least partically.

I understand your concern, but no matter who we have coaching this team they will be a gamble.

If another coach comes in right now, I still don't think we'll properly see their gameplan until much later.

It's about having the cattle to execute said gameplan.

At this stage we do not have this.

I think Bailey well and truly has captured the hearts and minds of his charges, that is no concern.

Did you read Martin Flanagan's articles last year? Do you remember the B&F where Don McClardy (I think it was) said we were the most positive wooden spooners in history? (paraphrasing)

This is for a reason, and Bailey is a big part of that reason.

My concern is that it is possible that Bailey is a useless gameday tactician.

But we will not know until he has a team that can execute ANY gameplan on the field, and that goes for anyone else we could put in his position.

In terms of what I think we can do to improve on Sunday:

- make tackling, pressure and intensity THE sole focus.

- give Scully more time in the guts; he found the footy and used it well, made good decisions.

- play only fit players - I don't think Davey should have been out there.

- get Bate back from injury as soon as possible.

- Keep playing the kids (if they earn their spot) because the experience will help them.

- remind the players (if they need it) "Don't get carried away with yourself, because someone will bring you back don to earth very quickly."*

I have a feeling this has happened and they have been given a rude awakening by Freo, but a timely one.

* borrowed from Pagan

[demon destruction 81]

I agree with alot of your points 2014-Flag however i disagree with the scully/jones comparsion. I thought the foxtel coverage was very biased didnt realize we were out there half the time especially Jakovich talking up Freo all night but they did get one point right about Scully. He was thinking too far ahead and was waiting for his teammates to catch up.

They mentioned this when he got caught on the outer wing, i can't remember who the first player was but whoever it was that ran past him for the handball had a freo opponent hot on his heels and Scully was smart enough not to put his team mate under pressure so he held onto it. However no other team mate stepped up to receive the handball. When they showed the replay from another angle our nearest player was the captain 10-15 metres away and standing still. Too slow to react! Why he was running past for a 2nd option i dont know?

Junior trys his heart out but i am beginning to believe that he may not be in our best 22 later in the year.

Time will tell

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

did anyone else see james mcdonald have the ball on the 50 meter line and have no one to kick to?

Interesting that more people are starting to notice this now.

[45HG 1,539]

Junior trys his heart out but i am beginning to believe that he may not be in our best 22 later in the year.

Time will tell

He's not first 18 anymore IMO

[flog 20]

- Keep playing the kids (if they earn their spot) because the experience will help them.

- remind the players (if they need it) "Don't get carried away with yourself, because someone will bring you back don to earth very quickly."*

I have a feeling this has happened and they have been given a rude awakening by Freo, but a timely one.

I agree with everything you have said in this thread but especially the above quote. I really believe the boys got caught up in the hype surrounding the club at at the moment. They played like they thought it would just happen and the result was a lack of intensity. I expect a diffrent team to face Essendon this week, at least mentally.

[titan_uranus 24,971]

He's not first 18 anymore IMO

He played pretty well, though, but I do agree. If he wasn't our captain I'm not sure he'd be getting a game (and hence he probably would have retired at the end of last year).

[Clanger King 9]

i reckon we will get flogged by essendon. I think Melbourne need not to worry about our defensive side of our game we play too many players behind the ball. Then once we get the ball we dont know where to go but space

ATM i think we need to see if we can put a score on the board with more attacking football. i mean when was the last time we kicked over 100pts in a game...? I think we need to focus on playing more one on one football then work hard off your opponent. If some players get beaten so be it at least you know where you go wrong and need to improve. After you fix these areas bring in zoning and defensive tatics. All i see atm is teams know we are going to turn it over with our poor skill so they push to attacking areas of the ground so inturn makes us push alot of numbers behind the ball with no where to go.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Clanger King

[Lost Highway 31]

They mentioned this when he got caught on the outer wing, i can't remember who the first player was but whoever it was that ran past him for the handball had a freo opponent hot on his heels and Scully was smart enough not to put his team mate under pressure so he held onto it. However no other team mate stepped up to receive the handball. When they showed the replay from another angle our nearest player was the captain 10-15 metres away and standing still. Too slow to react! Why he was running past for a 2nd option i dont know?

You've nailed one of our main deficiencies.

There are simply too few run-with, run-past, just plain hard running players in a Melbourne side, and too many who receive the ball standing still and deliver (poorly) to stationary targets; they don't hunt in numbers.

Forget about the skill level/quality of players for a moment - if the side the club can put out on the field at present would play with much more intensity they would do better. It's about running, REALLY running, to make position forward of the ball carrier, and to support the player with the ball in numbers at close range. This all seems so utterly basic, yet Melbourne have been able to do this so very rarely in the last few years. I can remember saying in the first quarter of the first match of 2007, when ND was still the coach, 'This side is mentally and physically under-prepared for a season of football'. Little has changed; maybe the physical side of things has improved but what use is that if the minds don't propel the bigger, fitter bodies around the oval?

As for looking for an improved forward line, I'd make some immediate but possibly controversial changes to try to get something happening. The set-ups most favoured are too predictable.

1. Jurrah needs room - he isn't a full forward. He's freaky, but could be flakey. He's got the speed and ground skills to play on the flank, and could still drift in near enough to score if he marks the ball. I'd rather see him there than in the pocket where opposition defences will mass to nullify this rather slightly built player. He looks great on a freaky day or when he's one-out, but won't get so many opportunities for that any more.

2. Green to full forward - he actually knows how to play football, this bloke, but doesn't have the leg speed to cut the mustard in the mid-field or flanks. He can lead well (which is based on intuition/natural ability as much as sheer speed), mark very strongly for his height and kick better than any other player in the side. He'd be much better than Bate who can't play tall, and Newton or Miller, who are both too clumsy and can't kick (as a life-sentence), in this position. BTW, Green should be captain of this side - he actually grits his teeth and gets pumped up.

3. If Dunn is going to be a part of this side, he ought by now to have a position to suit his physical attributes - he should be tried out at CHF for a decent while, not shifted every which way. He's got a bit of bulk and strength, fairly mobile, and can kick reasonably long. Watts won't be playing CHF for some time, and Garland is still well off selection, let alone getting a key position. I repeat, Bate just can't play tall, good a player as he might and should be. Second choice for CHF is Rivers.

For the rest of the forward line?

1. Pockets - Maybe a resting Jamar and another tall (Spencer? Martin? Who's fit to play?) rotating through ruck, pocket and bench. Newton should not play anywhere; in any case I'd say McKenzie would be the first one to promote from the rookie list if someone is declared long-term injured. I'd consider Miller in the pocket, despite his shortcomings, as at least he will have a go and put his body into the pack and his hands in the air, sometimes making contact with the ball - he contests heartily.

In the other pocket, I'd have Maric or Jetta for the time being. Martin I see as a defender or stop-gap utility type. He just won't generate off his own bat enough possessions in the forward zone, unlike in the defensive area.

2. Sylvia on the other flank, rotating with Bate or even someone like Jones, through mid-field.

There's a great temptation to have Davey in the forward line, but I think he'd be more use as a play-maker in the mid-field, where he can deliver the ball with precision into the forward line and is more likely to gain numerous possessions as a run-past receiver. As long as his hamstrings hold out. I wouldn't have him running around the defensive zone like he did last year, preferring to see him drifting into the forward line as a fleet-footed mid-fielder.

Some like the idea of Jamar at CHF. I don't. He's by far the best ruckman in the side and can hold his own against the best at the CBs. When he's not injured, that is. Others will suggest Morton, but I say his value is as a running player with enormous stamina, like Scully and Trengove (who MUST be played from round 1, with the odd match to rest).

The unknowns, of course, are: Can Bailey coach? Who's available/injured? Will blokes like Blease, McKenzie if promoted, MacNamara and Hughes emerge? Eventually - but this season - we should expect, and in fact DEMAND (fitness permitting), players like Watts, Tapscott and Garland to be available for the forward line, maybe even Gawn, who seems very coordinated and mobile despite his hugeness.

[2014-Flag 0]

Hille Ryder Dempsey Myers and maybe Gumbelton in this week against the Dees.

Players for Melbourne who i think will miss:

Scully (rest)

Davey (sore)

Spencer (hip)

Fitzpatrick (rest)

Players for Melbourne who i think will come in:

Gysberts

Bell

Jamar

Bartram

Why was Jamar not playing on Sunday? We could certainly have used him.

Also has any one else noticed our injury list? According to the club website, the injuries are:

- Cameron Bruce – Hamstring – 2 weeks

- Austin Wonaeamirri – Hamstring – 2-3 weeks

- Matthew Bate – Quad – 3 weeks

- Colin Garland – Foot – 3-4 weeks

- Jack Watts – Back – 3-4 weeks

- Sam Blease – Ankle – 4-5 weeks

- Paul Johnson – Foot – 6-8 weeks

- John Meesen – Ankle – Indefinite

- Max Gawn – Knee – Indefinite

The fact that this list is so long at this time of year and it seems riduled with serious injuries is a real worry.

What does "indefinite" mean? Certainly our ruck set up is seriously depleted on this basis and looks like being so for the first half of the season. What worries me more than anything about this is that it means Gawn missing out on invaluable development time with the rest of the team. I think he will be an exceptional acquisition once he matures, but i just hope he is not another David Schwartz with that knee.

The other person on that list of concern is Sam Bleeze. He seems to have continual leg injuries. Was the accident in the school yard more serious than we have been lead to believe, and is it in fact curable? We seem to have a number of players who seem injury prone: wonna, Bleeze, Watts, Garland, Gawn. May I suggest, more than 50% of the young guns of the future. Let's hope it is an abberation!

[2014-Flag 0]

Sunday's display in my view showed up an issue which has plagued the MFC for some time. There seems to be almost a timidity about our play and a pervading lack of risk taking. We seem obsessed with playing it safe, almost afraid to make a mistake (which we do anyway in spades). Some might say it is our youthful team, but it doesn't seem to affect other inexperienced teams as much. Anyone who saw the Swannies display against the Blues last weekend didn't see anything timid about their players, especially their young brigade. We need a new sense of adventure and a willingness to take risks.

Anyone agree?

Edited February 23, 2010 by 2014-Flag

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Sunday's display in my view showed up an issue which has plagued the MFC for some time. There seems to be almost a timidity about our play and a pervading lack of risk taking. We seem obsessed with playing it safe, almost afraid to make a mistake (which we do anyway in spades). Some might say it is our youthful team, but it doesn't seem to affect other inexperienced teams as much. Anyone who saw the Swannies display against the Blues last weekend didn't see anything timid about their players, especially their young brigade. We need a new sense of adventure and a willingness to take risks.

Anyone agree?

How many teams go into a game with only six players with over 100 games of AFL footy, 5 first gsmers and the rest with less than 50 games of AFL?

We started the game with a rookie ruck, two midfielders in their first game and our KPFs were a 2nd year with 9 games and another in his first game.

Now how does that compare with the Swannies?

Any chance being phyisically monstered in the first quarter shook the confidence of such a young side?