Its actually a fair indictment on our leadership stocks when players such as Grimes and Fitzpatrick are lauded for their leadership, both of whom have played 12 and zero senior games respectively.

Fortunately, as these players gain experience, this will change.

But, as Bailey has repeatedly said, its all about getting games into the kids as soon as we can.

So will I. Glorified Practice match? Tell that to the supporters of the clubs that won over the last 2 weeks. After the Kangaroos win, Daniel Pratt said this:

"We've got a really young list so it's probably just more important to worry about what we're doing right now," Pratt said.

"Brad has come in. He is new to the gig as well. It's been really exciting what we've seen so far, but I think a young team getting ahead ofthemselves is just looking for disaster.

"We'll just worry about playing Freo this week and then we've got Port in Round 1 and we'll just keep working towards that."

That's the difference between winning and losing a "glorified practice match" I suppose, but an interesting contrast nonetheless.

I wish someone at Melbourne could speak like Pratt. Everyone at Melbourne seems to talk about us way to far into the future. It's unrealistic to make the finals for the next few years and words to that effect. If there are people who should be unrealistic it should be the club. Only 2 clubs have said that they won't make the finals and that's us and Richmond, no wonder they are favorites for the spoon. Teams that say this tell me they don't expect to win games and when you don't expect to win games you usually don't. It time to start improving for now instead of thinking that everything will just click in a couple of years time. If the Freo game is any indication it may take 40 years to click.

I wish someone at Melbourne could speak like Pratt. Everyone at Melbourne seems to talk about us way to far into the future. It's unrealistic to make the finals for the next few years and words to that effect. If there are people who should be unrealistic it should be the club. Only 2 clubs have said that they won't make the finals and that's us and Richmond, no wonder they are favorites for the spoon. Teams that say this tell me they don't expect to win games and when you don't expect to win games you usually don't. It time to start improving for now instead of thinking that everything will just click in a couple of years time. If the Freo game is any indication it may take 40 years to click.

Your read on this is very different to mine and, i think, simplistic.

This thread is for those who aren't going to FREAK OUT over not just one single loss... but a loss in a NAB Cup match.

This is for even, considered discussion of the match against Freo, and what happened during that match.

Those that wish to panic and carry on, please take it to another thread.

Importance of the NAB Cup? Hark back a couple of seasons ago. NAB Cup winners CARLTON. Main season wooden spooners CARLTON. Just fancy, money making PRACTICE matches with a few silly experimental rules to boot!

Panic not, true Demon supporters.

Importance of the NAB Cup? Hark back a couple of seasons ago. NAB Cup winners CARLTON. Main season wooden spooners CARLTON. Just fancy, money making PRACTICE matches with a few silly experimental rules to boot!

Panic not, true Demon supporters.

Too true.

Glad someone made a thread to provide solace from the hysteria.

Great to see most have been civilized and stuck to the theme too!

The most disappointing part of the game for me was the 35 tackles,that's absolutely pathetic and it shows the attitude of this team,no intensity whatsoever!!! The Cats had 87 tackles to North's 85 and that's the sort of intensity we need to play with each week.The worst player in the AFL can rack up 10 tackles a game if he plays with the right attitude.Brad Scott already has the Roos playing with huge intensity,we will never play with that intensity under Dean Bailey,we were ranked 15th last year in tackling and we started this year with 35 tackles.If you can run,you can tackle.We just couldn't be bothered apart from the game last year we played for Jimmy,we had about 70 tackles and were ferocious at the ball.Look at the Saints rise up the ladder in the last 3 years,it's a result of playing a high pressure game,after their top 7 players,they're an average team but very well coached.

Saints Tackling under Ross Lyon:

2007.....52 tackles per game........ranked 7th

2008.....53 tackles per game........ranked 7th

2009.....73 tackles per game........ranked 1st!!!!!!!

Demons Tackling under Dean Bailey:

2008.....53 tackles per game........ranked 9th

2009.....56 tackles per game........ranked 15th

In 2009,Saints were one of the highest possession teams which means they were out of possession the least and they averaged the most tackles whereas the Demons were out of possession the most and had the least tackles,the team without the ball the most,US,should be tackling the most but the Saints had the ball the most and still managed to tackle the most

The high pressure/tackling game causes turnovers.If Dean Bailey doesn't address this very quickly,it will be another wasted year regardless of our new high draftees.If we just run around applying no pressure,it's game over every week!

Its actually a fair indictment on our leadership stocks when players such as Grimes and Fitzpatrick are lauded for their leadership, both of whom have played 12 and zero senior games respectively.

Ive heard that Grimes was only kept out of the leadership group by the smallest of margins. But where did you hear this about Fitzpatrick?

I'm praying that Grimes will develop into that bone-fide leader/elite player that we have been missing for so long.

Importance of the NAB Cup? Hark back a couple of seasons ago. NAB Cup winners CARLTON. Main season wooden spooners CARLTON. Just fancy, money making PRACTICE matches with a few silly experimental rules to boot!

Panic not, true Demon supporters.

Who won it last year?

It's pretty sad when you need to make threads like this. Narrowing the viewpoint and opinions to avoid a feeling of anxiety and worry. People just don't even what to think of the thought that maybe our club has gone no where? Maybe our coach is no good and the players we have drafted are bad? I do not believe this at all but threads like this are just avoiding the thought discussion of such things.

Hey mate as we discussed last night no need to panic at all.

I'm quite happy with this thread as all the other threads have been total other end of the scale.

As I said no one is happy with the loss but nothing wrong with staying positive.

I know it's still a pre-season game and there's still a fair bit of experimenting but I'd like to see a couple of positional changes.

While Morton has been good in defence I'd love to see him on the wing or even forward flank, get him into a position so he can use his strength ie running ability.

I love Grimes already, but I'd like to see him really cement his position in the team, leave him in the backline where he can control the area and play the 'quarter back' type role.

But it's such a long season, no point playing the aces before it's even started.

We showed some good form in (brief) patches, especially with such an inexperienced ruck division playing against a giant. We clearly lack some smarts in the middle though. We'll get better but I don't have over the top expectations this year. I'm happy with 7-8 wins

Importance of the NAB Cup? Hark back a couple of seasons ago. NAB Cup winners CARLTON. Main season wooden spooners CARLTON. Just fancy, money making PRACTICE matches with a few silly experimental rules to boot!

Panic not, true Demon supporters.

It's got nothing to do with the NAB Cup. It's about how we lost it. The same lack of run, lack of clearances, lack of skill and the same lack of forward options. Yes it was a practice match so I would of thought we had enough of practising making mistakes I thought we would of perfected it by now.

Who won it last year?

Yeah I was waiting for that! But Richmond also did well one year. No argument is perfect is it?

I just reckon we weren't trying to win. No one was chasing, cept Grimes and a couple of others. Horrible decision making all night MacDonald, Moloney, Sylvia, Martin were just awful with some of their decision making and all on various occasions handballed to a team mate that was too hot, resulting in a turnover. This was the worst thing for mine. Last weekend at Casey, I saw a great style of play being implemented - running in waves through middle with lots of quick, accurate hand balls. I have no idea why it didn't work on Sunday but it was disappointing to constantly see 1-2 Demons around the ball to the Dockers 4-5. Probably the Subiaco Curse again.

Have to agree Enforcer, a lot of ridiculous reactions being posted in demonland.

A lot of people bemoaning the game plan offering no alternative with actually not a lot of idea of what they are talking about.

This loss could be a minor blessing.

I just reckon we weren't trying to win. No one was chasing, cept Grimes and a couple of others. Horrible decision making all night MacDonald, Moloney, Sylvia, Martin were just awful with some of their decision making and all on various occasions handballed to a team mate that was too hot, resulting in a turnover. This was the worst thing for mine. Last weekend at Casey, I saw a great style of play being implemented - running in waves through middle with lots of quick, accurate hand balls. I have no idea why it didn't work on Sunday but it was disappointing to constantly see 1-2 Demons around the ball to the Dockers 4-5. Probably the Subiaco Curse again.

I don't think its the end of the world like some people, but i think this is a stretch.

If Bailey had higher priorities than winning the match, then I can't see what they are.

I think this was simply a poor game from the dees.

Remember, Geelong were thrashed by 100 pts by Collingwood right in the middle of their dominance.

Every team has bad days. I think we're allowed to have more than most considering the state of our list.

The most disappointing part of the game for me was the 35 tackles,that's absolutely pathetic and it shows the attitude of this team,no intensity whatsoever!!! The Cats had 87 tackles to North's 85 and that's the sort of intensity we need to play with each week.The worst player in the AFL can rack up 10 tackles a game if he plays with the right attitude.Brad Scott already has the Roos playing with huge intensity,we will never play with that intensity under Dean Bailey,we were ranked 15th last year in tackling and we started this year with 35 tackles.If you can run,you can tackle.We just couldn't be bothered apart from the game last year we played for Jimmy,we had about 70 tackles and were ferocious at the ball.Look at the Saints rise up the ladder in the last 3 years,it's a result of playing a high pressure game,after their top 7 players,they're an average team but very well coached.

Saints Tackling under Ross Lyon:

2007.....52 tackles per game........ranked 7th

2008.....53 tackles per game........ranked 7th

2009.....73 tackles per game........ranked 1st!!!!!!!

Demons Tackling under Dean Bailey:

2008.....53 tackles per game........ranked 9th

2009.....56 tackles per game........ranked 15th

In 2009,Saints were one of the highest possession teams which means they were out of possession the least and they averaged the most tackles whereas the Demons were out of possession the most and had the least tackles,the team without the ball the most,US,should be tackling the most but the Saints had the ball the most and still managed to tackle the most

The high pressure/tackling game causes turnovers.If Dean Bailey doesn't address this very quickly,it will be another wasted year regardless of our new high draftees.If we just run around applying no pressure,it's game over every week!

I agree that the tackling and pressure needs to be lifted and I'm sure the coaching staff do to.Tackling stats can be a little misleading ,young slender bodies are going to have a harder time holding the tackle or in fact comitting an effective tackle.

Also because you have less tackles than the opposition may not mean you have lost the game.It could mean you have more possesion of the ball and are controlling the game.

Respite!

I agree that the tackling and pressure needs to be lifted and I'm sure the coaching staff do to.Tackling stats can be a little misleading ,young slender bodies are going to have a harder time holding the tackle or in fact comitting an effective tackle.

Also because you have less tackles than the opposition may not mean you have lost the game.It could mean you have more possesion of the ball and are controlling the game.

Especially these ones!

Saints Tackling under Ross Lyon:

2007.....52 tackles per game........ranked 7th

2008.....53 tackles per game........ranked 7th

2009.....73 tackles per game........ranked 1st!!!!!!!

Demons Tackling under Dean Bailey:

2008.....53 tackles per game........ranked 9th

2009.....56 tackles per game........ranked 15th

Especially these ones!

If you are physically capable of tackling being a major part of your game I agree.Works well for St. Kilda!

I have my doubts that an extremely young and physically slight side like Melbourne are going to be one of the major tackling sides in 2010.That's not to say the team shouldn't work to be the best they are capable of at this skill.

A lot of people bemoaning the game plan offering no alternative with actually not a lot of idea of what they are talking about.

So you like the gameplan then? You like having 0 players forward of the centre, having defenders work their asses of to get possession of the ball, only to look up and find that the CHF is not at CHF, but at CHB?

I don't.

An alternative? No flooding, no numbers behind the ball in the first quarter, less use by hand and more by foot (which requires players forward of the ball carrier).

This loss could be a minor blessing.

... or a foretaste of things to come.

Time will tell how much of an aberration or wake-up call it was. Of course, I hope for the best. But ...

B

No argument is perfect is it?

True

This loss could be a minor blessing.

Agree. As long as there aren't any more like that, at least for a while. Sunday must be our low-watermark, it has to be the worst we could possibly do. Draw a line and move on.

And there's no way we can ever win any game if we can't get it inside 50 more than 7 or 8 times a quarter (30 for the game). We have to get it around 50, the hard question must be asked about whether our current starting midfield is capable of that.

The team won't improve until and unless the midfield improves - after Sunday there can be no doubt.

So you like the gameplan then? You like having 0 players forward of the centre, having defenders work their asses of to get possession of the ball, only to look up and find that the CHF is not at CHF, but at CHB?

I don't.

An alternative? No flooding, no numbers behind the ball in the first quarter, less use by hand and more by foot (which requires players forward of the ball carrier).

Yeah that's all part of DB's master plan, to have no targets to kick to. Have a look at Akum's post you might get an idea.

And freo had players at the fall of the ball. They ran it quicker and hit more targets by hand and foot and it appeared that they had superior fitness, but winning normally does that to you.

The reasons for our failure had nothing to do with game plan and we will see some of these results this year. We will also see some unexpectedly good results. I'm tipping a big roller coaster ride for 2010/11.

If you recall correctly we were being lauded by experts as an attacking team when our "gameplan" began to become evident for stages of games last year.

Edited February 23, 201015 yr by dandeeman

Agree. As long as there aren't any more like that, at least for a while. Sunday must be our low-watermark, it has to be the worst we could possibly do. Draw a line and move on.

And there's no way we can ever win any game if we can't get it inside 50 more than 7 or 8 times a quarter (30 for the game). We have to get it around 50, the hard question must be asked about whether our current starting midfield is capable of that.

The team won't improve until and unless the midfield improves - after Sunday there can be no doubt.

Personally I think we don't have enough creative play emanating from the midfield. I think there are a combination of factors at play here but I see these being well on thier way to being sorted by the end of this season and into next. It is a developing midfield. The developed players that we have in there are similar styles of player. The developing ones will compliment them.