No we don't know what Judd is like off the field but it's not the first time he either hasn't put a stop too trouble or he hasn't been able too.

How do you mean? At West Coast or Carlton?

And as you point out, we have no knowledge of what Judd is like or has done off the ground. But the assertion that the change of a Club's culture or the behaviour of each player is the responsibility of one person alone is rubbish and beside bitterness that he did not come to MFC, I am not sure why he has been singled out the way he has here. The most recent episodes are a slur on the whole Club from the Board down through the Football department to the senior players. Judd shares part of that blame in the leadership. But besides Judd, who are the other players at Carlton? Definitely isnt Walker or Houli.

Mind you I share your enjoyment that its Carlton. They have achieved a sense of misguided hubris without the prolonged success that is often the cause of it. I hope they are crushed from the overexpectations of their arrogant supporters

..................................... The most recent episodes are a slur on the whole Club from the Board down through the Football department to the senior players. Judd shares part of that blame in the leadership.

Yes. Absolutely!

How do you mean? At West Coast or Carlton?

And as you point out, we have no knowledge of what Judd is like or has done off the ground. But the assertion that the change of a Club's culture or the behaviour of each player is the responsibility of one person alone is rubbish and beside bitterness that he did not come to MFC, I am not sure why he has been singled out the way he has here. The most recent episodes are a slur on the whole Club from the Board down through the Football department to the senior players. Judd shares part of that blame in the leadership. But besides Judd, who are the other players at Carlton? Definitely isnt Walker or Houli.

Mind you I share your enjoyment that its Carlton. They have achieved a sense of misguided hubris without the prolonged success that is often the cause of it. I hope they are crushed from the overexpectations of their arrogant supporters

I'm talking only at Carlton here and he's been singled out here because he chose to go to Carlton and in doing so accepted a morally corrupt payment from Visy. He thought all was rosy as the captaincy was handed to him on a platter. As he's now learning being the Captain comes with some further responsibilities and after watching the Brownlow debacle unfold next to him and then allowing Levi to be turned into amusement shows he's either out of touch or out of his depth. I'm guessing it's the latter. Yes he's an excellent player but throw the latest issues in with the eye gouge(not his first by the way) and he's not a Captains [censored].

... highlights the real problem and that is the utter lack of leadership from the President, the CEO and the Coach ..

Agree on that much Peanuts. Tim Lane writes a pretty good article on this issue in the Sunday Age.

I'm guessing it's the latter.

Agree and noted

Agree and noted

Just for interest's sake are you agreeing with what I'm saying or just that I'm guessing on that particular point

Tim Lane writes a pretty good article on this issue in the Sunday Age.

Interesting Article written by Tim. Something our club may have to closely watch in years to come, as we will be bereft of the Older clubman in a couple of years.

It must be something all clubs dread at seasons end to some degree. The late night early morning phone call

Best captains are not always the best players.

Brown, Hird, Buckley have been both,

Bickley, Neitz are some while very good players and champions at their clubs, not champs of the competition.

I wouldn't say Buckley

Sure you're not thinking of Simon instead of Nathan?

One word says it all:

KERNAHAN.

One word says it all:

KERNAHAN.

YEP.

YEP.

Maybe Kernahan is not the right one to be President,however the thread is about Judd and his leadership-I say he is not the one that should be captain.

Actually, we do have a fair idea what Judd's like off the field, thanks to is liking for having his picture taken w. his girlfriend. Judd at the races, Judd at Dr Edelsten's wedding to that big lady, Judd proposing to his GF etc. Obviously craves the limelight of the social pages. Not v. bright, I reckon.

Actually, we do have a fair idea what Judd's like off the field, thanks to is liking for having his picture taken w. his girlfriend. Judd at the races, Judd at Dr Edelsten's wedding to that big lady, Judd proposing to his GF etc. Obviously craves the limelight of the social pages. Not v. bright, I reckon.

Geez, damning evidence there.

Judd likes to have his picture taken, goes to weddings and wants to get married!

Clearly a dill

Geez, damning evidence there.

Judd likes to have his picture taken, goes to weddings and wants to get married!

Clearly a dill

dreamin is saying that he clearly loves to be photographed doing what most would prefer to do in private. Not conclusive proof that he's a dill but hardly a sign of superior intelligence either.

Are you trying to defend the Captain of Carlton who not only accepts morally corrupt payments to play but also eye gouges and then stands around while a 17 year old is forced into drunken oblivion?

Geez, damning evidence there.

Judd likes to have his picture taken, goes to weddings and wants to get married!

Clearly a dill

Haha! i agree...storm in teacup avatar insert here

Media frenzy over nothing

When he was at West Coast he appeared to me to be detached and he is no different now he's at Carlton. He is a professional Footballer who sells his services to the highest bidder, which is his right, and I guess in this day of professionalism means that as long as he plays well he's done his job.

I would expect that if we get free agency we will see a lot more Judds who are not interested in Club or Culture only pay day.

When he was at West Coast he appeared to me to be detached and he is no different now he's at Carlton. He is a professional Footballer who sells his services to the highest bidder, which is his right, and I guess in this day of professionalism means that as long as he plays well he's done his job.

I would expect that if we get free agency we will see a lot more Judds who are not interested in Club or Culture only pay day.

Just another reason to think little of him.

When he was at West Coast he appeared to me to be detached and he is no different now he's at Carlton. He is a professional Footballer who sells his services to the highest bidder, which is his right, and I guess in this day of professionalism means that as long as he plays well he's done his job.

I would expect that if we get free agency we will see a lot more Judds who are not interested in Club or Culture only pay day.

Agree with your points- thus too selfish to be a captain,as it is team sport.

When he was at West Coast he appeared to me to be detached and he is no different now he's at Carlton. He is a professional Footballer who sells his services to the highest bidder, which is his right, and I guess in this day of professionalism means that as long as he plays well he's done his job.

I would expect that if we get free agency we will see a lot more Judds who are not interested in Club or Culture only pay day.

So how does every body think carlton will fare in 2010...seriously. All this crap could stuff them or galvanize them depending on how it is handled on Jan 4 and beyond.

9-10th for me. They will miss september IMO

So how does every body think carlton will fare in 2010...seriously. All this crap could stuff them or galvanize them depending on how it is handled on Jan 4 and beyond.

9-10th for me. They will miss september IMO

7-11

Won't win a final

Are ordinary after their top few.

If Judd goes forward it's too protect him from something. How strong is his body. The wear on those groins might be worse than is reported. (Pure conjecture)

Brock will be a handy addition but we won't miss him.

If Carlton gets charged with bringing the game into disripute should Judd step dowm?

If Carlton gets charged with bringing the game into disripute should Judd step dowm?

Why are we so preoccupied with Chris Judd and the problems at Carlton? If it's because we still carry a grudge against Judd for jerking us around two years ago when he had already made up his mind to go to the Blues, I think it's about time we started getting over it.

At some time during 2010 or 2011 we are going to overtake Carlton and it will be a long time before they get close to us after that. They might have Judd heading a reasonably strong midfield but they struggle for quality almost everywhere else and they have a poor culture and little in the way of leadership. We have an emerging list with talented young players and greater depth around the ground.

So let's concentrate more on our great club rather than on the dysfunctional has beens from Visy Park.

Amen.

Why are we so preoccupied with Chris Judd and the problems at Carlton? If it's because we still carry a grudge against Judd for jerking us around two years ago when he had already made up his mind to go to the Blues, I think it's about time we started getting over it.

At some time during 2010 or 2011 we are going to overtake Carlton and it will be a long time before they get close to us after that. They might have Judd heading a reasonably strong midfield but they struggle for quality almost everywhere else and they have a poor culture and little in the way of leadership. We have an emerging list with talented young players and greater depth around the ground.

So let's concentrate more on our great club rather than on the dysfunctional has beens from Visy Park.

I see your point and on any other issue in my life I subscribe to that view. But when it comes to carlton, well it's just so much fun to see what they have become. Once the tennis is over and footy again dominates the news I'll move on back to our great club and its resurgence. Until then a little Carlton bashing goes along way.

Edited December 30, 200915 yr by Roost It

Why are we so preoccupied with Chris Judd and the problems at Carlton? If it's because we still carry a grudge against Judd for jerking us around two years ago when he had already made up his mind to go to the Blues, I think it's about time we started getting over it.

At some time during 2010 or 2011 we are going to overtake Carlton and it will be a long time before they get close to us after that. They might have Judd heading a reasonably strong midfield but they struggle for quality almost everywhere else and they have a poor culture and little in the way of leadership. We have an emerging list with talented young players and greater depth around the ground.

So let's concentrate more on our great club rather than on the dysfunctional has beens from Visy Park.

Hi Jack, hope you are over the flu. With regards to your viewpoint ,what I am querying is the merit as captain and what the purposes are. In the thread outline, it mentions factors regarding Judd and the points raised re McDonald and the merit of MFC reappointing him captain . Furthermore, in my post regarding Judd stepping down, I think his overall behaviour as leader is appalling. And as you may remember people were after Neitz's head re his fight with a taxi driver at the Crown which he was fined 5 grand,when he was captain.. His behaviou is peanuts compared to the behaviour of Carlton players which are lead by Judd. And by the way, our leadership group lead by Junior runs rings around the leadership group at Carlton NOW. It was great that you concur when you stated they have a poor culture and little way of leadership. I say they have NONE.Judd lets the players run wild,and this will show on field as well..

Edited December 30, 200915 yr by jayceebee31