wow- pringle what a call- gee I have a bit of spendoler to place a bet that he goes under 40. Wish you were a bookmaker.

I know I made a big call, and I could easily be proven wrong depending on circumstances.

I think others have done my job for me in explaining my reasoning. It's not that I don't rate him at all as a player, but rather that I don't see a lot of 'upside' (I hate that word). I have also seen him play against men in the VFL 2nds for Coburg and though he performed well, he didn't really stand out as having any particular star qualities. Having said that, he does all the basics well and has a crack. Very quiet type, but that may have been because of the foreign environment playing a one-off game at Coburg on a bye weekend for the Cannons.

He already has a big strong body, and Tom Hawkins comes to mind as a decent comparison in terms of how bigger bodies at U18 level translates into AFL performance. I'm not actually comparing game styles, but Hawkins had the big strong body at U18 level and consequently dominated. Many thought Hawkins could have an immediate impact at AFL level, but even a few years down the track he is still yet to rip a game apart. He is solid at best in a fantastic team, which at the moment is all he needs to be, but I don't ever see him becoming a great forward of the competition.

Would Hawkins have been any good at Melbourne over the last few years as we butchered the ball inside 50? I'd say he'd have performed about to the level Newton has, because he lacks the ability (like Buddy, Fev or Reiwoldt) to make something out of nothing.

However this is just my opinion, and recruiters have their specific needs at each draft. The Bulldogs, Blues, Swans and maybe a couple of others like ourselves, West Coast and Richmond are all in the hunt for a forward, and if they all decide to pursue this type of player, then Temel may find a home earlier than 40.

But the main point of my post was to question why everyone was so excited given most are basing their assertions on a few stats rather than first hand vision. I may therefore have inflated my selection number to forty to make my point. Either way, I will stand by it and not expect to be too far off the mark. And if I'm wrong, happy to be reminded about it, as that's what this forum is about. It's good as a lay person to have a go at giving your opinion and then if you have the courage to put that opinion out there, you have to be able to cop the flak if and when you're proven wrong. Plus footy and recruiting is an art, not a science, so what looks like trash to me may look like gold to a club in need of that particular player type.

Tue, Sept 29 – 2009 Draft Camp begins, AIS Canberra,therefore starts today. Will keep you in the news.

On the AFL site they are saying that this year a lot of smaller players will be picked.

Long and short of the AFL draft is smaller players-http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/long-and-short-of-the-afl-draft-is-smaller-players/2009/09/28/1253989871763.html?page=2

In the article,What does this mean? The number of smalls invited to the camp is, in one sense, a reflection of how few star tall prospects are lurking in this year's draft pool. Eight ruckman will be tested this week, but only three of them are 198 centimetres or taller and only two or three would have been drafted had they been in last year's draft pool, if that. The clubs who loaded up on tall prospects last year were smart. But it also reflects a shift in the game and the increasing importance of pace, smart and quick decision-making and clean foot skills.

If you can kick, think, run and compete, said Melbourne recruiting manager Barry Prendergast, then you're in with a chance no matter how small you are.

''There's no doubt. And I think we're a lot more open minded these days about who we pick,'' said Prendergast, pointing out that West Coast's 2006 premiership team contained Ben Cousins, Daniel Kerr, David Wirrpanda and Michael Braun, all under 180 centimetres. ''Kicking's always been important, but there's such a huge premium placed on it now that, if you had a choice, you'd take the bloke who's two or three centimetres shorter but had better kicking skills every day of the week.

''You look at that, and you look at how important small forwards and their pressure are these days. Every team needs one now, and clubs are almost running around with two, which means you need to find players to match up on them. You still need tall, versatile defenders, and you need to take a player's size into account with whatever position you hope he can play. You need to know they can compete, but I do think some of those stereotypes don't match up with how the game's being played at the moment. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there is more scope and more chances for the smaller blokes right now.''

This year's draft camp will, for the first time, feature a specific kicking drill, where players, at a moment's notice, must hit targets on each foot. The introduction of the test would send a message to prospective players, said AFL talent manager Kevin Sheehan, that getting their skills spot on would open doors, no matter what size they were. ''What we're telling everyone is that kicking skills are essential and that, if you can kick, you've got a chance.''

The AFL draft camp begins today and runs until Friday at the Australian Institute of Sport in Canberra. Today's program includes height/weight/skinfolds/arm length and handspan measurements, as well as medical and vision checks. The main physical testing is tomorrow morning.

■ Top draft prospect Jack Trengove will miss this week's draft camp to prepare for this weekend's SANFL grand final, where he will play for Sturt against Central District.

Draft camp invitees under 180cm

2007

Cyril Rioli 178cm (Hawthorn, drafted)

Addam Maric 177cm (Melbourne, drafted)

Mitchell Farmer 179cm (Port Adel, drafted)

Aaron Joseph 178cm (Carlton, rookie)

Chris Masten 179cm (West Coast, drafted)

Jared Petrenko 176cm (Adelaide, rookie)

2008

Dylan McNeil 178cm (not drafted)

Chris Hall 175cm (Fremantle, drafted)

Jamie Sheahan 178cm (not drafted)

Nic Suban 179cm (Fremantle, drafted)

Mitchell Banner 178cm (Port Adel, drafted)

Michael Walters 177cm (Fremantle, drafted)

2009

Callum Bartlett (Geelong Falcons, 179cm)

Allen Christensen (Geelong Falcons, 176cm)

Travis Colyer (Claremont, 175cm)

Kallen Geary (Bendigo Pioneers, 177cm)

Robbie Hicks (Calder Cannons, 176cm)

Andrew Hooper (North Ballarat Rebels, 172cm)

Lewis Jetta (Swan Districts, 178cm)

Dylan McNeil (Murray Bushrangers, 178cm)

Byron Sumner (Eagles, SA, 174cm)

Josh Thomas (Gold Coast, 178cm)

Jason Tutt (NSW/ACT Rams, 176cm)

Derick Wanganeen (Port Adel, 172cm)

This is the reason that TALLS will be so eagerly sought high in the draft.

Edited September 29, 200916 yr by jayceebee31

Re Temel: Big call. Wrong call. Terrible call. Won't be picked up in top 40. Have seen him play. H's ok. Not a star. Never will be. Have absolutely no idea why people here are close to ejaculating over the prospect of picking him up. Has not warranted this attention.

HaHa.... There is only one draft pick who has me doing this.... And I think we all know who that is

HaHa.... There is only one draft pick who has me doing this.... And I think we all know who that is

YES- SERHART TEMEL AS JACK IS THERE.

Five to miss AFL draft camp

STURT sensation Jack Trengove won't be the only Croweater set to bypass the AFL draft camp, starting in Canberra today. Of the 13 South Australians invited to the intensive four-day gathering, five will stay in Adelaide to prepare for SANFL grand finals on Sunday.

While Trengove will prepare for the Double Blues' date with Central District in the league decider, Derick Wanganeen (Port), Byron Sumner (Eagles) and Glenelg pair Alex Carey and Josh Giddings will gear up for the reserves and under-18 grand finals.

Those who miss out on the draft camp will be able to participate in the state screening session - which is a condensed version of the camp - which will be held at Kidman Park on Saturday October 10.

In reading this article-http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/overlooked-jetta-brother-racing-up-draft-rankings/2009/09/29/1253989912728.html,shows how diFficult recruiting is but the conclusion is- the one that got away-could have and should have been our rookie last year- LEWIS JETTA.

All be it- I think our recruiting last year was brilliant- the only one that has and is still under the microscope is Bail- however, as a Rookie- Jetta would just been the icing on the cake.

News from day 1-http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/85478/default.aspx

Following Emma Quayle via twitter http://twitter.com/emmasq

some interesting news apparently Morabito has done a quad and isn't testing

apparently dustin martin's stared in the 20m sprint with times of 2.92, 2.80, 2.90

Have a look also photo of John Melsham doing vertical leap.

Two important Articles regarding Tom Scully and Jack Trengove from the AFL draft Camp

Scully talks about knee injury and excitement about the dees

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tab...95/default.aspx

Brenton Phillips compares Trengove to Bryce Gibbs same if not better

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tab...91/default.aspx

From Emma Quayle's Thread on Twitter

Winmar 3.10 in the 20m sprint

Butcher 2.99

Ayden Kennedy (Eastern Ranges) best at 2.88

Two important Articles regarding Tom Scully and Jack Trengove from the AFL draft Camp

Scully talks about knee injury and excitement about the dees

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tab...95/default.aspx

Brenton Phillips compares Trengove to Bryce Gibbs same if not better

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tab...91/default.aspx

Thats a huge article RE: Trengove. I'm nearly more excited with him then I am Scully. I can seriously playing on a HFF and doing a great job in his first year.

A pity that Morabito has also gone down with a calf injury therefore will not be competing . This means the top 3 by media speculation will not be tested at this draft camp-

A pity that Morabito has also gone down with a calf injury therefore will not be competing . This means the top 3 by media speculation will not be tested at this draft camp-

"He's about as good as I've seen … I haven't seen a single flaw yet."

Who cares about Morabito he has flawes in his kicking and decision making.

News from the camp- John Butcher ran a 2.99 second sprint. Best (I think) was Ayden Kennedy from Eastern Ranges - 2.88 seconds .This has been passed on by Emma Quayle via Twitter. Quite impressive big John.By memory Jack Watts went 2.82.If I am wrong, someone will correct me.

Edited September 30, 200916 yr by jayceebee31

Some must watch video from the first offical day of draft camp.

Tom Scully is already an impressive media performer, Interviews with Anthony Morabito and Kane Lucas also.

Shifter and Dean Bailey's opinion on what he's seen so far.

http://www.afl.com.au/Video/tabid/76/video...px#VideoPlayerB

Edited September 30, 200916 yr by Diablo Deemon

In reading this article-http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/overlooked-jetta-brother-racing-up-draft-rankings/2009/09/29/1253989912728.html,shows how diFficult recruiting is but the conclusion is- the one that got away-could have and should have been our rookie last year- LEWIS JETTA.

All be it- I think our recruiting last year was brilliant- the only one that has and is still under the microscope is Bail- however, as a Rookie- Jetta would just been the icing on the cake.

Your being too kind..

We could have rookied Leroy Jetta at pick 70!!! FFS ..and he wants to play at MFC!!!

Bad miss BP, should have taken the tip and done homework on Leroy! He even said he missed it. He kicked 12 gls in a game just a few weeks b4 BP co-incidently met him, 12 gls from a wing.

..and now he might go top 10!

Do we cut our losses and take him at 18 if he's still there? Ahead of WCE and Freos next pick?

From Emma Quayle's Thread on Twitter

Winmar 3.10 in the 20m sprint

Butcher 2.99

Ayden Kennedy (Eastern Ranges) best at 2.88

Some of those results from the people who are twittering:

20m Sprint

Ayden Kennedy 2.88

Dustin Martin 2.90

Andrew Hooper 2.90

John Butcher 2.99

Nicholas Winmar 3.10

Repeat Sprint (top 10)

Jack Fitzpatrick 

Robbie Hicks

Jordan Williams

Gary Rohan

Jason Tutt

Dustin Martin

Lewis Jetta

Dylan Grimes

Brad Shepperd

Jake Melksham

Fitzpatrick is 201cm

Your being too kind..

We could have rookied Leroy Jetta at pick 70!!! FFS ..and he wants to play at MFC!!!

Bad miss BP, should have taken the tip and done homework on Leroy! He even said he missed it. He kicked 12 gls in a game just a few weeks b4 BP co-incidently met him, 12 gls from a wing.

..and now he might go top 10!

Do we cut our losses and take him at 18 if he's still there? Ahead of WCE and Freos next pick?

Nice one. Giving BP a large bake for not doing his homework, but getting Jetta's name wrong. Twice.

He's one that got away and I'd love to hear BP's thoughts on what he did to follow up when told by about Lewis Jetta by Neville Jetta's mother. The answer might be nothing, but the answer might be that he followed up and just didn't think the kid looked any good. He wouldn't be the first kid to look like a spastic at 18 and a weapon at 19. Aaron Davey said he (Davey) was as slow as a snail until he was 18 or 19. Would anyone have drafted him if he was slow? I'm going to reserve judgement on BP on this one for now.

What we shouldn't do is 'cut our losses' as you seem to be suggesting and draft him just because we've already missed out once. We draft him at 11 or 18 if he's still available and if it can be argued that he's the best available. In other words, treat him like any other player in the draft.

Besides, if we took Jetta with our last pick in 2008, we wouldn't have had space on the list to participate in the PSD and would have missed out on Jurrah. I know who I'd rather have, with all due respect to Jetta.

Yes we could have rookied him, but I think McKenzie was a very good rookie choice, and we were committed to Hughes pre-draft.

Some of those results from the people who are twittering:

20m Sprint

Ayden Kennedy 2.88

Dustin Martin 2.90

Andrew Hooper 2.90

John Butcher 2.99

Nicholas Winmar 3.10

Repeat Sprint (top 10)

Jack Fitzpatrick 

Robbie Hicks

Jordan Williams

Gary Rohan

Jason Tutt

Dustin Martin

Lewis Jetta

Dylan Grimes

Brad Shepperd

Jake Melksham

Fitzpatrick is 201cm

Is there 2 Butchers?

Some must watch video from the first offical day of draft camp.

Tom Scully is already an impressive media performer, Interviews with Anthony Morabito and Kane Lucas also.

Shifter and Dean Bailey's opinion on what he's seen so far.

http://www.afl.com.au/Video/tabid/76/video...px#VideoPlayerB

Great to see and hear that Scully would love to wear the RED & the BLUE

GO DEES

Another interesting pioint was from DB whom said they would go for at least one midfielder not suggesting that they would pick up Scully & Trengove.

Are you saying that you think Butcher is slow?

Butcher is actually quick and very agile, especially for a big guy. The knocks on him are work rate and kicking. Athletically he's very good and I think he's criminally under-rated by people on here simply because he's a poor kick and he underperformed in two games that a lot of people saw: the Champs game at Etihad and final against Dandenong. If he lasts until 11 (which I doubt) then I'll be doing cartwheels.

That said, I'm a Scully and Trengove man at picks 1 and 2. Geelong showed again how to win flags without a dominant tall forward.

Gotta love people who use hindsight as evidence.

Are you saying that you think Butcher is slow?

Butcher is actually quick and very agile, especially for a big guy. The knocks on him are work rate and kicking. Athletically he's very good and I think he's criminally under-rated by people on here simply because he's a poor kick and he underperformed in two games that a lot of people saw: the Champs game at Etihad and final against Dandenong. If he lasts until 11 (which I doubt) then I'll be doing cartwheels.

That said, I'm a Scully and Trengove man at picks 1 and 2. Geelong showed again how to win flags without a dominant tall forward.

Please advise why on earth would be pick Butcher - by your own admission he can't kick- we currently recommend getting rid of Newton and Miller- WHY- because they cannot kick. Why on earth would we pick up an early draft pick, say 11 for a person whom has serious flaws- that is why TEMEL is a better pick- 22 goals in 4 finals.-WOW.

And WATTS is so more athletic than Butcher.

45h16, I think if you look back you'll find that I've said it in the past. (Edit - I just did research and I've said it on 5 separate occasions)

jcb31, in all likelihood he won't last until 11. In fact I think that if you divide Temel's draft selection by 3, the number will still be higher than Butcher's.

The problems with Newton and Miller are not all about kicking. We're talking about pack marking forwards who operate close to goals, not outside midfielders. Think of him as Justin Koschitzke, rather than Nick Riewoldt. Butcher still kicked 32.19 this year.

Players can be made from poor kicks into adequate kicks on an AFL list, especially when most of those kicks will be set shots at goal. Look at Stef Martin, who was one of the most truly horrendous kicks you will ever see when he was drafted. Butcher's kicking is nowhere near that bad, but look at the improvement Martin has made. Personally I think that Butcher's kicking has a lot to do with poor technique, which could be corrected at an AFL club, but that's just my opinion.

And Watts is more athletic than Butcher, but Watts is more athletic than pretty much everyone!! He's the second quickest non-indigenous kid to ever run that test at draft camp! I don't see how that's relevant in any way, shape or form. Oh, and I'd love to hear what Temel's sprint times come out at at Screening.

Also, under 18 stats can be very misleading when you compare players that mature early, like Temel. If we relied entirely on underage stats then Ed Clarke would have been an AFL champion rather than a VFL reserves journeyman.

Edited October 1, 200916 yr by Axis of Bob