All pie in the sky stuff. But our weakness at the moment and over the next few years appears to be our ruck division. Jamar has been very good in the games played this year, Meesen has shown a little, Martin has the back up ruck position in the bag, Spencer is about 4 or 5 years away from playing consistent football, if indeed he can play consistent football, and I’ve given up on Paul Johnson.

With the emergence of Mitch Clark (possibly AA this year) and Charman nearing the end, aka. a perfect back up ruck in the short term, would the lions consider trading Leuenberger?

Pro’s – Burger was recruited in a very strong 2006 draft at pick 4, meaning 2010 will be his 4th pre season, he’s probably a year or 2 away from holding down the ruck spot, it’s interesting to note, Mitch Clark was taken in the 2005 draft and had an array of injuries prior to this year.

- the emergence of Clark may mean his value to Lions is much less as it was last year.

- The trade could be done, our priority pick (if we get one) for Burger, maybe they could sweeten the deal, but id be happy with a straight swap.

- Burger may want to go to a club that can guarantee him more game time (R.Warnock), considering his game time will be severely impacted by Clark.

Con’s – injuries (but see clark)

- he’s from Perth originally, will he get homesick?

This could be a win-win for both clubs, Brisbane get a very high pick and address a more urgent issue (getting a solid mid before the drafts are affected), we get a ruckman who could play for the next 10 years, without having to wait the 4 years before his body is ready.

If we look at the opportunity cost of the pick, we would miss a midfielder, either Trengrove or Morabito, we have drafted a heap of mids lately, and we have Jones, McLean and Moloney, possibly McKenzie as strong bodied inside mids.

So the question is, is a ruckman more important than a hard at it midfielder, not just now but in 5 years time? I’d say go the ruck, but would Brisbane make the trade?

I’ve seen no U/18’s myself, but reports I’ve read, suggest that Scully is head and shoulders above the rest. So Scully to me is the priority, after that we can be creative with our other priority pick, if we get it.

Comparable to the Jeff White AA year, Jolly wanted out as he could see writing on the wall. Sydney got him for a steal.

No they wouldn't trade him.

All pie in the sky stuff.

First things first.

Sort out our midfield. I would also look for an extra key forward b4 i start looking at rucks.

And Leunberger would cost us a pick 1. They love him at Brisbane.

He is their number one. Mitch Clarke can play forward and they both look to be a formidable combo for years.

Burger would cost you a first round pick (approx 10 to 16) if Brisbane were to trade. I doubt they will. They have Clark, an aging Charman and who else to ruck? Burger will be retained by Brisbane.

I would not trade a first round pick for a young unknown ruckman. And I certaintly would not trade our PP or high 1st round pick for him. I note that Collingwood traded pick 14 for Cameron Wood. They must be feeling good on that one.

If we have picks 1 and 3 or picks 1 and 2 then I want Scully and the best available player. If that means two midfielder so be it. Its not as though we cant use them.

As for our rucking issues, Jamar can compete with other rucks ATM. Hopefully, Meesen might give us something. PJ is will be gone at the end of 2010. I would be looking to develop Spencer and rookie another ruck for 2010.

In my opinion we've got the midfield coming through, particularly if you add Scully. The rucks are the problem. True we need another forward, but there arent many out there. We need so much, by securing the burger it would be one less problem.

But you're correct, Brisbane may not want to. Fair enough too.

I would not trade a first round pick for a young unknown ruckman. And I certaintly would not trade our PP or high 1st round pick for him. I note that Collingwood traded pick 14 for Cameron Wood. They must be feeling good on that one.

Interesting that Malthouse recently compared Cameron Wood to Peter Moore.

I agree with the picks. Scully and the next best available player.

In my opinion we've got the midfield coming through, particularly if you add Scully. The rucks are the problem. True we need another forward, but there arent many out there. We need so much, by securing the burger it would be one less problem.

But you're correct, Brisbane may not want to. Fair enough too.

IMO, our ruck stocks arnt looking that bad. Jamar has been great this year (as long as we can keep him on the park) , Meesen I must say shocked me a little, he plays a more competitive game in the AFL than the VFL, but he is still a little bit away, we still have the bean pol Spencer to come through, and Martin is servicable in this area.

We need good mids. If we do get the PP and 1/2/3/4 I would like to draft 2 classy mids.

I dont think that first class rucks are anywhere near as vital as first class mids, and that we certainly do not have. Not at this stage anyway.

BTW mate, cant belive I have never called you on this, but, LOVE your name sake. The new record should prove interesting.

Interesting that Malthouse recently compared Cameron Wood to Peter Moore.

Now or when Moore was playing?

I just think that 5 years is too much of an unknown to be trading a first round pick for. You just dont know what value you are getting.

I am not as optimistic as the OP on our midfield emerging. Its third world and crying out for real class. If Scully and say Trengove are available then we should take them.

Our midfield stocks have improved out of sight in the last 2 years.

the class is Blease, Bennell and Strauss. Grimes too looks a player that can play both inside and outside, Scully from all reports can do both. Bennell looks a classy outside mid, Morton class outside mid. If Maric can build up his engine he has a very good football brain. I really liked the look of McKenzie on the weekend, what surprised me was his penetrating kicking, everyone spoke about his hands, but i like his kicking, his clearance rate and tackling too is first rate, as is his tackling.

Also let's not forget Wona. He absolutely blitzed it in the intra club (his only game for the year). I hope he can build his engine up coz he has the potential to rotate with Davey as the damaging midfielder. Bailey has alluded to this in press conferences.

I'm really excited about Blease though, Strauss at the moment isnt getting enough of it, but has class.

Therefore I think the mids look ok, Wona, Grimes, Morton, Blease, McKenzie, Strauss, Maric, Bennell and Jetta. That is a decent group of mids, add Scully and the foundation is there.

The rucks on the other hand? Jamar, maybe has 1 or 2 years left in him, Meesen massive question mark, Spencer has shown signs, but needs a good 4 or 5 years. Martin an excellent back up ruck, and can rest up forward or down back. We need a key ruckman though in my opinion.

Our midfield stocks have improved out of sight in the last 2 years.

the class is Blease, Bennell and Strauss. Grimes too looks a player that can play both inside and outside, Scully from all reports can do both. Bennell looks a classy outside mid, Morton class outside mid. If Maric can build up his engine he has a very good football brain. I really liked the look of McKenzie on the weekend, what surprised me was his penetrating kicking, everyone spoke about his hands, but i like his kicking, his clearance rate and tackling too is first rate, as is his tackling.

Also let's not forget Wona. He absolutely blitzed it in the intra club (his only game for the year). I hope he can build his engine up coz he has the potential to rotate with Davey as the damaging midfielder. Bailey has alluded to this in press conferences.

I'm really excited about Blease though, Strauss at the moment isnt getting enough of it, but has class.

Therefore I think the mids look ok, Wona, Grimes, Morton, Blease, McKenzie, Strauss, Maric, Bennell and Jetta. That is a decent group of mids, add Scully and the foundation is there.

The rucks on the other hand? Jamar, maybe has 1 or 2 years left in him, Meesen massive question mark, Spencer has shown signs, but needs a good 4 or 5 years. Martin an excellent back up ruck, and can rest up forward or down back. We need a key ruckman though in my opinion.

we MUST pick the two best mids with the first two picks. End of story. Cant be bothered backing this up as its been done numerous times before.

To say Brisbane would not take pick 2 or 3 for an injury prone unproven developing ruckman is ludicrous.

To say that we should consider doing it is completely beyond comprehension.

Our midfield is atrocious and although we have alot of potential midfield options they are nothing more than that potential.

If Leunberger is out of contract that is one thing but if not I would leave him be.

Our midfield stocks have improved out of sight in the last 2 years.

Its still the same culprits in the midfield ATM. Only Sylvia has shown anything that resembles class.

Bennell and Grimes may indeed end up in the midfield but neither have played any notable time there this year.

Blease, Strauss and Wona have shown no more than potential and there is a hope that they will succeed but there are no certainties there.

There is nothing substantive there. Our midfield has been appalling. Hopefully the future is brighter.

Our midfield stocks have improved out of sight in the last 2 years.

the class is Blease, Bennell and Strauss. Grimes too looks a player that can play both inside and outside, Scully from all reports can do both. Bennell looks a classy outside mid, Morton class outside mid. If Maric can build up his engine he has a very good football brain. I really liked the look of McKenzie on the weekend, what surprised me was his penetrating kicking, everyone spoke about his hands, but i like his kicking, his clearance rate and tackling too is first rate, as is his tackling.

Also let's not forget Wona. He absolutely blitzed it in the intra club (his only game for the year). I hope he can build his engine up coz he has the potential to rotate with Davey as the damaging midfielder. Bailey has alluded to this in press conferences.

I'm really excited about Blease though, Strauss at the moment isnt getting enough of it, but has class.

Therefore I think the mids look ok, Wona, Grimes, Morton, Blease, McKenzie, Strauss, Maric, Bennell and Jetta. That is a decent group of mids, add Scully and the foundation is there.

I can see where you're coming from but that list is pretty speculative. I am more positive about our midfield than most supporters have become in the second half of this season. However, while some of these guys might come on, we'll find others aren't up to scratch. Even taking a pretty positive POV, who are the out-and-out stars there?

Scully's not yet in the system but probably looks the most likely. Grimes looks good but I'm not sure he'll be in the class of the elite players of the competition. McKenzie might make the grade but other guys have looked good early on, so I think the jury's still out.

I'm not sure Blease has even played a senior VFL game and he was picked in the second round. Strauss has played but and it seems he's more likely to be a running defender.

Bennell, Maric and Wona aren't mids yet and I'm not sure they will be. While Wona might have ripped it up in a pre-season game it's hardly something you can put your house on.

Every other club is going to have their small defenders/forwards they think will come good, or the second round picks fans are sure will be playing in an elite midfield. Unfortunately not all players end up making it, let alone becoming dominant players.

The rucks on the other hand? Jamar, maybe has 1 or 2 years left in him, Meesen massive question mark, Spencer has shown signs, but needs a good 4 or 5 years. Martin an excellent back up ruck, and can rest up forward or down back. We need a key ruckman though in my opinion.

Jamar certainly has more than a year or two left in him. He's only 25 atm (26 later this year).

I agree that the jury's out on Meesen and Spencer, and even if Spencer comes good he's probably a fair while away, as you say.

I think Martin's over-taken PJ as the 'second ruck' option - he has more potential to add other strings to his bow, while PJ hasn't been able to show enough up forward.

I would have been rookie listing at least young ruck each year for many years now. Although the time it takes for young talls to come through is an issue I'd probably continue down this road for now, rather than give up what might be the last of our early picks for some time.

If there was a dominant KF putting their hand up for our second pick I'd go that way over an equally-ranked mid (assuming we've already taken the best mid at #1), but I wouldn't do so for a ruck.

Would love the big man in red and blue, I am HUGE fan. If he was out of contract yes. Lure him back. Get him to nominate for the preseason draft, we'll take him at one.

Just throwing it out there but with the evolution of the game do people still see clubs selecting specialist ruckmen in the future? Especially in the draft? A lot of teams this year have gone into games with just one big man. I think we'll see more of your ryders, martins, and forwards like lynch rucking and clubs going in with extra runners. 2020 could see 22 Usain Bolts charging around in red and blue...

I like the idea of US being on the end of a good ruckman trade for a change. The only thing I'd hope is that we wouldn't give a first rounder for him, or ANY ruckman for that matter.

MAYBE our starting second rounder, but they wouldn't be willing to trade for that.

Dappa, we've been on the end of a good ruckman trade.

Wood going to Collingwood - Grimes coming to Melbourne.

Rucks are effective.

Martin as the back-up ruck/ute going forward.

And Jamar can do what he's been doing for another 5 years if he manages his body well enough. Meesen and Spencer would compete for Jamar's spot.

All focus must be on the midfield. We will lose Macca, Green, and Bruce over the next 3 years. Moloney, McLean, and Jones need a significant amount of pace beside them, or instead of them.

Brisbane wont let him go, or if they are forced too it will be for Pick 3 or something very very valuable. IMO, for an unproven and injury prone ruckman, that is too much. I'd rather stick with what we've got and continue to develop the youngsters. The rucks can hold their own, and who knows how Meesen and Spencer will develop. Midfielders are the more important cog we need to work on. No use getting 50 hit outs a game if the opposition just sharks them off our mids!

204cm ruckman who was pick 4 in the 2006 draft. Unfortunately for us, will be Brisbane's number 1 ruckman for the next decade.

Not sure they would do the trade even for pick 2-5. I wouldn't if I were Brisbane - why waste 3 years of development put in to a ruckman who will likely be a star?

Dappa, we've been on the end of a good ruckman trade.

Wood going to Collingwood - Grimes coming to Melbourne.

:D

Getting White wasn't bad either.

Dappa, we've been on the end of a good ruckman trade.

Wood going to Collingwood - Grimes coming to Melbourne.

Correct. However, I'll reword. What I meant was with all the talk of Jolly going on to a good career, it would be nice not to have a ruckman leave, and instead trade for a ready-made one.

:D

Getting White wasn't bad either.

This would be the last time we did well out of trading for a ruckman. Was a fairly long time ago though.

I really liked the look of McKenzie on the weekend, what surprised me was his penetrating kicking, everyone spoke about his hands, but i like his kicking, his clearance rate and tackling too is first rate, as is his tackling.

His movement and penetration by foot reminded me a lot of Paul Wheatley actually. His replacement, perhaps?

As for the topic itself, we must get our hands on two elite/class mids and finish off our midfield stocks, before we look to our rucks. I think everything else will fall into place, if we have a good enough midfield.

IMO, ruckmen aren't as important as some people think. If your centremen are clued up enough and read the play well enough, as long as you've got a big man competing against the opposition ruckman, you should win most clearances.

Burger would cost you a first round pick (approx 10 to 16) if Brisbane were to trade. I doubt they will. They have Clark, an aging Charman and who else to ruck? Burger will be retained by Brisbane.

I would not trade a first round pick for a young unknown ruckman. And I certaintly would not trade our PP or high 1st round pick for him. I note that Collingwood traded pick 14 for Cameron Wood. They must be feeling good on that one.

If we have picks 1 and 3 or picks 1 and 2 then I want Scully and the best available player. If that means two midfielder so be it. Its not as though we cant use them.

As for our rucking issues, Jamar can compete with other rucks ATM. Hopefully, Meesen might give us something. PJ is will be gone at the end of 2010. I would be looking to develop Spencer and rookie another ruck for 2010.

Leuenberger is a bit better than Wood (one reason Wood left).

Doubt Brissy would take anything less than a top 5 pick for him. If he was fit he'd be their #1 ruckman with Clark playing forward/back-up ruck.

Apparently is in the top 5 over 20m at Brisbane and does well in the time trials so the sky is the limit for him

I would not trade a first round pick for a young unknown ruckman. And I certaintly would not trade our PP or high 1st round pick for him. I note that Collingwood traded pick 14 for Cameron Wood. They must be feeling good on that one.

Leuenberger is a bit better than Wood (one reason Wood left).

Cameron Wood tonight:

Kicks: 13

Handballs: 11

Marks: 8 , took some strong marks.

Hitouts: 19

Goals: 2

Only one good game but obviously the potential is there.