15th on the ladder

[pantaloons 2,019]

A draw would be a better outcome.

It screws WCE by putting them at 4.5 wins and then also penalises Freo with 2 premiership points.

And nobody is forced to listen to either song after the game.

[Jaded No More 68,920]

A draw would be a better outcome.

True, but let's not get too greedy!

In the event that one team sucks less than the other, I want West Coast to win.

If they do, Freo might even sack Harvey, promoting them to stop being so [censored] and start winning.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

True, but let's not get too greedy!

If they do, Freo might even sack Harvey, promoting them to stop being so [censored] and start winning.

I think Harvey is a dead man walking regardless and the forces are mobilising behind his back now.

[Jaded No More 68,920]

I think Harvey is a dead man walking regardless and the forces are mobilising behind his back now.

Hopefully they hold on and sack him in the week leading up to our game.

Come on Freo, for once in your miserable, pathetic history, stand up and do something that will make me applaud you, as opposed to laugh at you.

Help us get the PP and we promise to help you finish on the bottom of the ladder for the next 10 years

[Carn dees 108]

And nobody is forced to listen to either song after the game.

ahhah good call.

So who are we baracking for in the derby? Freo or Wce.

[dee-luded 2,959]

ahhah good call.

So who are we baracking for in the derby? Freo or Wce.

Tell U when we get closer.

Ur, 2 weeks, well I'll barack for Wet coke to win.

Edited July 14, 2009 by dee-luded

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Hey, I have been there for the past 50 years.

I was there when we started shooting ouselves in both feet, by treating Norm Smith as we did and letting Barassi go off to Carlton. I saw all those horrible games and the recruiting of "messiah" players and coaches, who were not.

This is the first time in all those years (since the "glory days"), I have felt we might be learning, how to operate a club and an on ground team.

Like you, I believe, we will have not won anything, until that pennant is proudly unfurled at the start of a next season - or even 2 or 3, before too long.

Winning games now, is of little consequence to that plan/desire - I know that.

Which is why I said in my previous post, we should use the opportunity to develop players and cotton wool others, for the future.

I repeat, if we lose most of these games and end up with the best picks - great.

I just don't think it is a good idea to "tank".

I believe we are starting to be a "smart" club. It is obvious we are "building". If that "building" includes PPs great.

I know we need to take every opportunity to build this team, but are you so desperate that you want to "manipulate" the system just to do it ?

BD... Some of the better discussion on the biggest topic to ever hit demonland/'ology. Besides Woey of course.

My problem is you give the tanking enthusiasts the concession that getting the PP is a good thing, then you say that tanking isn't a "good idea." Without providing many ironclad reasons why not. The big ones, on first viewing are that it instills a losing culture, that it will hurt the confidence of young players in the coaching staff, that it will alienate supporters, and bring abuse and criticism from the media. Off the top of my head they're the biggest reasons why not. And as far as I can see, none are that big a deal. The losing culture malarkey is fixed by winning a few games in a row, which even we have done. Get the players winning and suddenly they can taste it every time they take the field. The confidence of young players in the staff, likewise, is something to be managed by the staff. Good leadership fixes this. As for the supporters and media, almost everyone involved in footy, anyone close enough to have watched the demons in the last 3 seasons knows unequivocally that we need as many high-end players as we can get to even look like an AFL side again. Likewise, anyone who knows ANYTHING realises that the AFL and rules committees are to blame for the tanking that goes on. Not the clubs themselves. They're only taking advantage of the rules as they are.

I just can't see the cons the way many "win at all costs" types do. What you say about "smart list management" is basically exactly what tanking is. It's a juggling act. You can never go out and SAY you're tanking, because you'll get in trouble from a host of parties. The truth is that you DO tank. You cal it list management, or list development, but it's tanking... or as close as you can get to it.

As an aside, I'd like to see Wheels get another four games.

To make 150? Does he get anything for that milestone? That would be the LEAST of what he deserves. I'm surprised he's only played that many. He'll retire this year or next as the most underrated dee I've ever seen.

But at the risk of prejudging him, I do not think he is an Ablett, Bartel , Voss or Hird.

With respect, Ablett, Bartel, Voss and Hird... when recruited... were not Ablett, Bartel, Voss or Hird quality. That probably reinforces your point about taking mid-range picks...

I just love the wimps on this site! They just love to lose, well you must be in heaven supporting the DEES as we have been doing alot of that lately. Now correct me if Ive got this wrong, we are meant to go out there and lose yes say it after me KIDDIES looooooose, welcome to carlton, you are as bad as them, no worse, as they didnt play the holier than thou act. They tanked and everybody knew it.

Ok. Firstly, calm down. Secondly, where were you when Carlton were tanking? They were "managing their list." The same term every bottoming out club uses. They never owned up to tanking. Their supporters may have, and the Carlton haters (us among them) were very quick to sink the boot in, but the club themselves never admitted to it.

Besides, there's a reason they are in the 8 and we're not. They push list management and tanking to the extreme, and are rewarded for it. They're taking advantage of the rules as a ruthless club. Something we have NEVER been accused of doing.

And now Ricky and Liam try to get better and play better footy and kick 4 a piece, horrible, delist them I say,

Who said that? No-one. Actually, YOU said it. I think you'll find most, if not ALL suppers were excited to see both players play like they did. It's just the smart ones who were conflicted. They knew we played well, but against a side that may as well not have been there. Would either player have kicked as many against the Cats? Saints? This is the whole point. We love their success, but we would love TEAM success more.

NO delisting is to good for them, beheading sounds about right.

Take a deep breath, get off your soap-box, stop being dramatic and try to read between the lines of what people are saying.

Richmond vs Melbourne is a crucial game if you assume that MFC will beat Freo.

This is going to be the Scully cup, though the Freo game will be billed as such. In a way, I'm glad that these two games are our biggest concerns. In some of the others we could pick whoever we wanted and be assured of defeat. The problem comes when it's selection time. Bailey will be widely criticised if he drops players like Bruce, Davey, Green etc etc. Also, I'm not completely convinced we're going to get out of the other 5 games unscathed. No-one predicted the Port win... and we did the same thing against the Bulldogs a couple of years back. If it was 5 rounds to go, or 3... I'd be more confident.

I think Harvey is a dead man walking regardless and the forces are mobilising behind his back now.

Geez. Who would want to replace him? That's got to be, along with the Tigers, one of the least attractive lists to come in to coach... Actually, North's isn't much better. Who'd want to be a prospective coach this year?

Having said that, our list at the start of Bailey's time was worse. How he convinced the board he was going to play finals in 2008 is beyond me.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Dappa Dan