....are just whipping boys for this inept selection committee.

there were worse players than those two last week, but they cop it all the time. Miller is NOT a KPP - unfortunately, they're still seduced by the sins of ND and they have no idea how to help him or get him right.

He belongs on the wing and he runs hard to present.

Johnson needs to sit in the forward pocket and stay there.

FFS it's not Physics or Pythagoras, they're just footballers, employees who need direction. Bailey, get it right!

....are just whipping boys for this inept selection committee.

there were worse players than those two last week, but they cop it all the time. Miller is NOT a KPP - unfortunately, they're still seduced by the sins of ND and they have no idea how to help him or get him right.

He belongs on the wing and he runs hard to present.

Johnson needs to sit in the forward pocket and stay there.

FFS it's not Physics or Pythagoras, they're just footballers, employees who need direction. Bailey, get it right!

Well, they are at a crossroads, are they not?

Their form has warranted being dropped and whether there were worse players or not, there were ready replacements.

The only ones making them whipping boys are the people over-analyzing their omission.

Sorry jumbo, but neither of them are playing well enough to keep their spots in the team. It doesn't matter where Miller plays, the fact is that he hasn't been having anywhere near enough of an influence when he has been playing this year. Last week again, he went missing for extended periods of time. We need him to stand up and have an influence, and he isn't doing that.

Johnson is just not good enough at AFL level to hold down any position. He isn't good enough in the ruck, he's been tried as a forward to no avail, and he doesn't impose himself around the ground. He shouldn't be surprised to find himself at Casey this week.

....are just whipping boys for this inept selection committee.

there were worse players than those two last week, but they cop it all the time. Miller is NOT a KPP - unfortunately, they're still seduced by the sins of ND and they have no idea how to help him or get him right.

He belongs on the wing and he runs hard to present.

Johnson needs to sit in the forward pocket and stay there.

FFS it's not Physics or Pythagoras, they're just footballers, employees who need direction. Bailey, get it right!

Jumbo! Miller belongs on the wing?? Are you serious?!

....are just whipping boys for this inept selection committee.

there were worse players than those two last week, but they cop it all the time. Miller is NOT a KPP - unfortunately, they're still seduced by the sins of ND and they have no idea how to help him or get him right.

He belongs on the wing and he runs hard to present.

Johnson needs to sit in the forward pocket and stay there.

FFS it's not Physics or Pythagoras, they're just footballers, employees who need direction. Bailey, get it right!

Really???

Whatever weaknesses Miller has as a KPP. they are going to be illuminated and further exposed on a wing.

And PJ needs to sit in a FP and do what??? He is only going to do even less of what he struggles to do in other parts of the ground.

Neither player have shown over the course of this year and last that they are up to AFL standard (PJ) or are borderline at best (Miller).

You are right it's not Physics or Pythagoras, they're just footballers and ordinary ones at that.

Unfortunate for Miller he will be only as good as the players delivering the footy to him. He is a good leading CHF and put him in a team with good ball movement he will take his 8-15 marks per game. Play him in a team with very poor ball movement and even worse foot skills and he will struggle, hence he is playing poorly.

Johnson, we quickly forget that he has been our only ruckman for most of the year. He will be tired he has shouldered a huge work load over the past 13 weeks and for the first half his ruckwork was good and played well. The last 4 weeks though he has been beaten and struggled.

Both these two will continue to play for the MFC in 2010.

Neither are AFL standard.

Paul Johnson: soft and unaccountable

Brad Miller: workhorse but clearly not up to it

Paul Johnson: close to delisted, if not this year then i'd guarantee next.

Miller: I just don't know what to do with him. Hopefully as our midfield improves so will his output.

Thanks for your replies - these guys are scapegoats and will continue to be unless they find new clubs or they're 'coached'

Maybe, just maybe, they might need a basic instruction like, 'Johnno, you contest and split open the packs' and 'Brad, keep presenting, then kick into the zone you've created for Bate or Robbo to run into'.

This is too simplistic for its own good, but one game attended, i read Bailey's comment to Moloney - Ready? 'Get the ball, just get the ball!' Surprisingly, it worked.

I don't want to micro-manage or analyse form too much, but if selection criteria involves playing well, then mclean, pettard, jetta, jurrah are all lucky to hold their spots.

Sorry jumbo, but neither of them are playing well enough to keep their spots in the team.It doesn't matter where Miller plays, the fact is that he hasn't been having anywhere near enough of an influence when he has been playing this year. Last week again, he went missing for extended periods of time. We need him to stand up and have an influence, and he isn't doing that.

On that basis no one in our forward line is playing well enough to keep their spots.

The real problem is our midfield is incapable of honouring leads or at least giving our forwards a 50/50 chance.

Valenti must have run over Dean's cat.

He at least has some form & deserves a few games to show it.

Miller is the only forward we have capable of taking a contested mark.

Miller is continually contesting against the two best opposition tall defenders because we have no other key marking target worth worrying about.

Miller went missing for extended periods last week because the ball was mostly at the other end of the ground.

Johnson is just not good enough at AFL level to hold down any position. He isn't good enough in the ruck, he's been tried as a forward to no avail, and he doesn't impose himself around the ground. He shouldn't be surprised to find himself at Casey this week.

West Coast knew he couldn't mark the ball when they let him go.

Neither are AFL standard.

You could say that about three quarters of our team at the moment. The only players on current form that would get games in top 10 teams are,

Sylvia, Davey, Green, Bruce, Frawley and Grimes

the first three would get games in top four teams

Miller did about 80 minutes of nothing for Casey in the VFL before imposing himself on a knackered opposition for 30 minutes resulting in 2 goals. He does usually work hard. Results though are not evident.

Edit: "there were worse players than those two last week" - Agreed.

Thanks for your replies - these guys are scapegoats and will continue to be unless they find new clubs or they're 'coached'

Maybe, just maybe, they might need a basic instruction like, 'Johnno, you contest and split open the packs' and 'Brad, keep presenting, then kick into the zone you've created for Bate or Robbo to run into'.

This is too simplistic for its own good, but one game attended, i read Bailey's comment to Moloney - Ready? 'Get the ball, just get the ball!' Surprisingly, it worked.

I don't want to micro-manage or analyse form too much, but if selection criteria involves playing well, then mclean, pettard, jetta, jurrah are all lucky to hold their spots.

Each have had seven years in the AFL and the only Clubs they will find will probably be outside AFL. I think the instructions are basic to the players. Many of the players you mention are just not up to executing it.

Both can have good games, but are too inconsitent.

The difference between good and bad is massive.

Johnson is No 2 currently in the ruck behind Jamar, may last another year While our young Spencer develops more and Messen recovers from injury.

As for Miller might be traded.

Johnson is No 2 currently in the ruck behind Jamar, may last another year While our young Spencer develops more and

Its telling in a game where we some expected to win we have put all bets on one ruckman returning from injury and not even contemplate PJ off the bench. It says alot at where PJ is at currently.

If Meesen were fit and Spencer a little less raw, PJ would be a worthy No 4 and be gone at year end.

Unfortunate for Miller he will be only as good as the players delivering the footy to him. He is a good leading CHF and put him in a team with good ball movement he will take his 8-15 marks per game. Play him in a team with very poor ball movement and even worse foot skills and he will struggle, hence he is playing poorly.

Johnson, we quickly forget that he has been our only ruckman for most of the year. He will be tired he has shouldered a huge work load over the past 13 weeks and for the first half his ruckwork was good and played well. The last 4 weeks though he has been beaten and struggled.

Both these two will continue to play for the MFC in 2010.

Agree - miller is our ONLY presenting forward. The rest of them just refuse to offer a lead :angry: ..all of which is made worse by the roundabut way we come in from the midfield..it's just crap

Miller has little confidence in himself and needs whatever swagger he had to perform his role.

PJ has played some good games this year, but the vast majority of games have been punctuated by poor disposal, critical errors, and inept marking attempts against smaller opponents. He doesn't play like a 200cm, 100kg ruckman.

THE FUTURE

Miller has a chance to play long term, but he isn't a natural footballer and gets lost very easily. Bate is moving past him as the lead up option.

PJ is in dire straights. He is a backman ruckman at best, and there is a backup ruckman by the name of Stefan Martin who has shown that he can contribute back, forward, link across midfield, and contest very well in the ruck and, this is important, when the ball hits the ground after a tapout.

BTW, they have played 12 and 13 games respectively, so I cannot see how they are the scapegoats of the match committee...

i would love to see PJ given a few games at CHF as a big target, and get some crumb around him. (i know we dont have any crumbers but anyway)

i think he could offer quite a bit as a power forward, is huge, has pace, has a big engine. be interesting to see how he went for a few weeks

Paul Johnson's game tally was significantly boosted this season by the injuries which attacked our entire ruck division.

He has been floating between terrible and average this year, and will be lucky to survive the cuts at the end of the year. He is a poor ruckman, a terrible decision maker and an average user of the ball. He can't take contested marks, and while he can run fairly well for someone his size, he has no idea what accountability is.

As for Miller, he is struggling, and some of that can be attributed to our terrible forward delivery. He started the year well, and provided a good target, but for some reason or another, hasn't done that recently. His lack of confidence in front of goal is also a major worry.

Needs to go back to Casey, take as many contested marks as possible inside 50, and go for goal EVERY SINGLE TIME. Otherwise, he and Newton will keep handballing it to one another.

West Coast knew he couldn't mark the ball when they let him go.

Miller has little confidence in himself and needs whatever swagger he had to perform his role.

PJ has played some good games this year, but the vast majority of games have been punctuated by poor disposal, critical errors, and inept marking attempts against smaller opponents. He doesn't play like a 200cm, 100kg ruckman.

THE FUTURE

Miller has a chance to play long term, but he isn't a natural footballer and gets lost very easily. Bate is moving past him as the lead up option.

PJ is in dire straights. He is a backman ruckman at best, and there is a backup ruckman by the name of Stefan Martin who has shown that he can contribute back, forward, link across midfield, and contest very well in the ruck and, this is important, when the ball hits the ground after a tapout.

BTW, they have played 12 and 13 games respectively, so I cannot see how they are the scapegoats of the match committee...

They are a soft option to drop - drop McLean, Rivers, Jetta or Bruce. Their form doesn't warrant a game week in, week out.

Sorry jumbo, but neither of them are playing well enough to keep their spots in the team. It doesn't matter where Miller plays, the fact is that he hasn't been having anywhere near enough of an influence when he has been playing this year. Last week again, he went missing for extended periods of time. We need him to stand up and have an influence, and he isn't doing that.

Johnson is just not good enough at AFL level to hold down any position. He isn't good enough in the ruck, he's been tried as a forward to no avail, and he doesn't impose himself around the ground. He shouldn't be surprised to find himself at Casey this week.

It's just a few weeks ago when we were marvelling at how well Johnson was holding up in the ruck--by himself. I recall he played very well v West Coast. He was part of a dominant ruck against Collingwood, tho he did make a number of disposal errors.He has talent. I wouldn't drop him

As to Miller, again we've left him out when [as with the Collingwood game] it looks likely to be wet and heavy. Who's to play at CHF? Jurrah? In the wet?Don't think so.

I couldn't see last week's match but thought Miller was ok against Essendon. He was, incidentally responsible for Watts' first mark and goal when Miller cleaned up half the Dons' defence to clear the way. Miller's precisely the type I'd like to see playing in the conditions I foresee for tomorrow and when a bullocking type on the forward line will be vital. I can see another game when we'll be lucky to score 8 goals

Paul Johnson's game tally was significantly boosted this season by the injuries which attacked our entire ruck division.

He has been floating between terrible and average this year, and will be lucky to survive the cuts at the end of the year. He is a poor ruckman, a terrible decision maker and an average user of the ball. He can't take contested marks, and while he can run fairly well for someone his size, he has no idea what accountability is.

As for Miller, he is struggling, and some of that can be attributed to our terrible forward delivery. He started the year well, and provided a good target, but for some reason or another, hasn't done that recently. His lack of confidence in front of goal is also a major worry.

Needs to go back to Casey, take as many contested marks as possible inside 50, and go for goal EVERY SINGLE TIME. Otherwise, he and Newton will keep handballing it to one another.

Johnson is a poor ruckman? I disagree entirely. Watch how often he gets the ball down to a team-mate. His 'taps to advantage' ratio [or whatever it's called] is quite high. It's remarkable that, eg, Ryder was thought to have beaten our rucks. The figures showed otherwise, and Johnson also had more disposals than Ryder. His stats WERE down last week but that's the first bad game [as a ruckman] he's played.

And I agree with another poster.

If we think Miller's not good enough, why not give Johnson an extended run at CHF. He's got all the attributes, can kick beautifully, and could do as Schwarz did and take the ruckwork on the forward line.Adds greatly to flexibility. I KNOW he's been played there from time to time--for about 5 minutes each time!

If we think Miller's not good enough, why not give Johnson an extended run at CHF. He's got all the attributes, can kick beautifully, and could do as Schwarz did and take the ruckwork on the forward line.Adds greatly to flexibility. I KNOW he's been played there from time to time--for about 5 minutes each time!

He has been given a number of tries up forward for longer periods and just has no impact. The problems that damn him in the ruck and around the ground are going to [censored] him as KPP.

It's just a few weeks ago when we were marvelling at how well Johnson was holding up in the ruck--by himself. I recall he played very well v West Coast. He was part of a dominant ruck against Collingwood, tho he did make a number of disposal errors.He has talent. I wouldn't drop him

He is the ultimate fool's gold that too many posters buy.

A dominant ruck against Collingwood??? I dont think so. Spencer was alright early in the first quarter on Fraser then Fraser was BOG for 3 quarters and flogged Johnson particularly around the ground. In both games Fraser has pushed forward inside 50 and that fine mobile tall in PJ just did not stay with him.

They are a soft option to drop - drop McLean, Rivers, Jetta or Bruce. Their form doesn't warrant a game week in, week out.

Your fixation with scape goats is preventing you from seeing the real issues.