Round 14: Melbourne v West Coast

[H_T 2,941]

Our fixture is like a poorly managed golf course.

The front 9 is effing impossible and the back 9 is filled with 120m par 3's.

We play WCE, Port, Rich, and Freo at the G. And NM at the most awful stadium in the world.

This back 9 is going to be problematic if we hit too many greens in regulation.

We really only want to hit 3 good shots... Maximum...

Hopefully our putting is terrible...

Hopefully Bailey starts tee-ing off with the sand wedge in hand.

[mo64 5,280]

I love a guy without a clue.

We aren't good enough to tank.

Carlton were in winning positions in games in 2007 and rested better players and somehow forgot to tag opposition better players. And it was part of scheme to get Judd and pay him off Visy's payroll.

WCE won a flag in 2006 and still have 15 of their premiership team in and they win less than 5 games, two years in a row.

Perspective

So if we're not good enough to win a game against a team that's playing as poorly as WCE, what difference will 1 additional high draft pick make?

And I'm not surprised that you love a guy without a clue, because it's obvious to everyone on this site that you love yourself!!!!

[old55 21,874]

Put 50 on the Eagles for the spoon at 12 to 1 a week ago. If they manage to outtank us its $600 for debt demolition.

Good idea.

There's no doubt they're tanking.

If we win less than 5 WC is the only team who can prevent us from having pick 1.

I want us to lose this game - it truly is an 8 point game.

It's the most important one to lose and it gives us more scope to win others which is important for morale.

One advantage is WC %, their points difference is something like -150 whereas ours is -400, that's 250 points we'd need to make up in wins or closer losses. That's quite a bit considering we've got Geelong and St.Kilda to come and they've got a lot of home games. I think % is worth a win to them.

If we lost the WC game we could win 3 of the remaining 8 and still finish below WC on %

However I think we'll win because WC are completely ruthless, already have less wriggle room and haven't won away for years.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

And your earlier post???

Brilliant.

Geez, you must have been captain of the school debating team with style like that - "I don't agree with the negative because they are wrong".

So what is the problem with the post? You don't like us winning? You don't think recruiting is an imprecise art? You disagree that good players can be found outside the top 20? or that top picks can turn out to be duds?

[dee-luded 2,958]

Would love to smash them by 100 points!!!!!

Yep & in a few years time when we're competing with them in a finals game, the players we allowed them to tank for will combine with Kerr & DCox, Masten, Ebert, Rosa, Priddus, etc, etc.

The Idea in drafting & the priority pick is for teams like us to catch up to teams like those & finalists.

Not to help them stuff us up.

How about we put our Egos in the draw for a year or so & as someone said, suck it up, so we can spray them all down later.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

So if we're not good enough to win a game against a team that's playing as poorly as WCE, what difference will 1 additional high draft pick make?

And I'm not surprised that you love a guy without a clue, because it's obvious to everyone on this site that you love yourself!!!!

Even a prize dunce like you could not be stupid enough to ask that question? Duhhh.

Give that chip on your shoulder a rub Mo. The winter is playing havoc with it.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Geez, you must have been captain of the school debating team with style like that - "I don't agree with the negative because they are wrong".

So what is the problem with the post? You don't like us winning? You don't think recruiting is an imprecise art? You disagree that good players can be found outside the top 20? or that top picks can turn out to be duds?

Do the research and answer your own questions. It will be eye opening. You are coming off a low base.

[Jaded No More 60,135]

However I think we'll win because WC are completely ruthless, already have less wriggle room and haven't won away for years.

No doubt.

I just wish we're as ruthless as them, and if we do win, it's because we're at home and our young kids really step up, not because we went in with our best available team and superior matchday tactics. This really is a game that we cannot afford to win by simply letting West Coast do as they please.

If we win that game because Jurrah kicks 6, Grimes gets 30 disposals in the middle, Bennell steps it up, Frawley, Warnock and Garland demolish their forwards and Watts takes 10 contested marks, then I won't walk away from the game angry that we may have just blown our chances of getting Scully.

Having said that, lets bloody well just lose that game. We've been [censored] for 3 years, what's another 7 losses gonna do?

[Toad33 57]

Can some of the losers please explain something for me, I am a bit slow.

Carlton tank and are known as carltank on this page, dam them those bloody cheats.

West coast is tanking now bloody handgropers!

Now us darling DEES, we dont tank, no not us, no sir we mearly lose.

Dam those other 2 cheating clubs.

Oh for gods sake dont blame carlton or WC as you want the same result but want to hold onto your virginity!

If you believe its in the best interest of the club to lose, fair enough thats your opinion and you have all

the right to think that.

BUT PLEASE BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF, you are carlton, you are WC no better no worse.

If you believe tanking is the way to go, please oh please call it what it is-

TANKING

Not tanking just 'working to aquire compensation for an AFL sanctioned football landscape designed to make MFC success, and respect, all but impossible' at the moment.

Go Dees - Building for the Future

[RalphiusMaximus 6,001]

Can some of the losers please explain something for me, I am a bit slow.

Carlton tank and are known as carltank on this page, dam them those bloody cheats.

West coast is tanking now bloody handgropers!

Now us darling DEES, we dont tank, no not us, no sir we mearly lose.

Dam those other 2 cheating clubs.

Oh for gods sake dont blame carlton or WC as you want the same result but want to hold onto your virginity!

If you believe its in the best interest of the club to lose, fair enough thats your opinion and you have all

the right to think that.

BUT PLEASE BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF, you are carlton, you are WC no better no worse.

If you believe tanking is the way to go, please oh please call it what it is-

TANKING

Well, I can't speak for others but the reason I hate Carlton is that they cheat in other ways. I have no issue with Tanking as such, but the fact that they now have official approval for breaking the salary cap just sucks. They have arranged deals to lure top players from other clubs outside of trade week, offering them massive under the table payments in the form of makework jobs with Visy, such as Judds $700,000 a year job as one of Visy's "Environmental Ambassadors." They have bought their last two captains in Nick Stevens and then Judd which is a huge slap in the face to every player who has been with them since they were drafted. And let's not forget the fact that they took Chris Johnson off our hands for no compensation by once again arranging a deal outside trade week and agreeing to draft him if he refused to re-sign with us.

All in all I think it's safe to say that Carlton are a disgrace and should be removed from the competition. However, they have Demetriou in their corner, so at the moment it's anything goes at Visy Park.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

I would love to beat St.Kilda by 3 goals in rnd 22 to finish off the season....how good would that be

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

Well, I can't speak for others but the reason I hate Carlton is that they cheat in other ways. I have no issue with Tanking as such, but the fact that they now have official approval for breaking the salary cap just sucks. They have arranged deals to lure top players from other clubs outside of trade week, offering them massive under the table payments in the form of makework jobs with Visy, such as Judds $700,000 a year job as one of Visy's "Environmental Ambassadors." They have bought their last two captains in Nick Stevens and then Judd which is a huge slap in the face to every player who has been with them since they were drafted. And let's not forget the fact that they took Chris Johnson off our hands for no compensation by once again arranging a deal outside trade week and agreeing to draft him if he refused to re-sign with us.

All in all I think it's safe to say that Carlton are a disgrace and should be removed from the competition. However, they have Demetriou in their corner, so at the moment it's anything goes at Visy Park.

Classic...

[mo64 5,280]

Even a prize dunce like you could not be stupid enough to ask that question? Duhhh.

Give that chip on your shoulder a rub Mo. The winter is playing havoc with it.

Ok smarta#se. How many no.1 picks have played in a premiership side?

[Pipefitter 2,085]

Ok smarta#se. How many no.1 picks have played in a premiership side?

Luke Hodge.

[Jerry Lundergard 412]

Drew Banfield. That makes a grand total of 2.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Do the research and answer your own questions. It will be eye opening. You are coming off a low base.

Why are you being so obnoxious and yet refusing to answer the question. Is it because you have no answer or are you just generally rude to people?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Ok smarta#se. How many no.1 picks have played in a premiership side?

Well wizard you go ahead and tell me. And I am sure that it will be a stunning answer that self sauces another crackpot bit of wisdom

BTW, you were asking about the difference a high draft pick (not just a No 1 pick) would make.....

Last years B'low M'list - Adam Cooney (2003 - No 1)

Last years Coleman Medallist - Buddy Franklin (2004 - No 5)

Last years NSM - (2001 - No 1).

And if you actually did the research Mo across all clubs over the past 10 years or so you would find that higher draft picks end up playing a higher number of AFL matches than lower draft picks. However, its not just a matter of accessing the picks but having the skill to actually choose the players who will make it. Richmond is a perfect case in question of recruiting poorly. And through your detailed research you will come up with the dud in the top 10 (eg 2003) and the odd Sam Mitchell (in the 30s).

Knock yourself out big hitter.

[Sir Why You Little 35,322]

We must lose to west coke in order to win. Those Bastards won a flag 3 years ago & certainly do not need a Priority pick.

They lost there Gun Midfield because of Narcotic use, all the while Worsfold denied anything was going on (he is a chemist by trade-He Knew)

West coast deserve nothing.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Why are you being so obnoxious and yet refusing to answer the question. Is it because you have no answer or are you just generally rude to people?

I have answered the Richmond question in an early post. Poor recruiting does not negate the importance of accessing the best draft picks you can. And gems like James Hird??? Taken pick 79 in 1991. There have been approx. 1,200 players that have been taken outside the first round since James Hird that have go on to top players? Any idea of the odds? Would not be many would it?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

We must lose to west coke in order to win. Those Bastards won a flag 3 years ago & certainly do not need a Priority pick.

They lost there Gun Midfield because of Narcotic use, all the while Worsfold denied anything was going on (he is a chemist by trade-He Knew)

West coast deserve nothing.

He has also got himself a 3 year contract to continue in the role.

The pharmacist is milking every opportunity he can.

He deserves to fail.

[mo64 5,280]

Drew Banfield. That makes a grand total of 2.

Correct, and neither Hawthorn or WCE finished bottom in the year that they acquired Hodge and Banfield respectively.

[Sir Why You Little 35,322]

He has also got himself a 3 year contract to continue in the role.

The pharmacist is milking every opportunity he can.

He deserves to fail.

He knows exactly what he is doing. Tom Swift's knee is so not right, Worsfold is playing him so the ball gets Coughed up. West Coke can afford to Tank as they have a Membership waiting list & they know it.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Correct, and neither Hawthorn or WCE finished bottom in the year that they acquired Hodge and Banfield respectively.

And I am sure that it will be a stunning answer that self sauces another crackpot bit of wisdom

Knock yourself out big hitter.

Tko Cassius Clay.

[mo64 5,280]

Well wizard you go ahead and tell me. And I am sure that it will be a stunning answer that self sauces another crackpot bit of wisdom

BTW, you were asking about the difference a high draft pick (not just a No 1 pick) would make.....

Last years B'low M'list - Adam Cooney (2003 - No 1)

Last years Coleman Medallist - Buddy Franklin (2004 - No 5)

Last years NSM - (2001 - No 1).

And if you actually did the research Mo across all clubs over the past 10 years or so you would find that higher draft picks end up playing a higher number of AFL matches than lower draft picks. However, its not just a matter of accessing the picks but having the skill to actually choose the players who will make it. Richmond is a perfect case in question of recruiting poorly. And through your detailed research you will come up with the dud in the top 10 (eg 2003) and the odd Sam Mitchell (in the 30s).

Knock yourself out big hitter.

Thanks for the useless information. I'm staggered to find out that higher draft picks have played more games than lower draft picks. Who would have guessed?

The point that Rojik and IWS have been making is that an additional high draft pick will not make one iota of difference to a team that has a losing culture. Instilling the current team with some confidence will achieve better results in the future, rather than pinning your hopes on 1 draft pick.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

I have answered the Richmond question in an early post. Poor recruiting does not negate the importance of accessing the best draft picks you can. And gems like James Hird??? Taken pick 79 in 1991. There have been approx. 1,200 players that have been taken outside the first round since James Hird that have go on to top players? Any idea of the odds? Would not be many?

I know you dont believe list management to be important but you will be the first to complain in the future about our crop of players if we dont start getting success

Was it that hard to answer? There are two AFL captains that have come from the rookie list (somebody also said Maxwell but I'm not sure about that) which suggests to me that a good recruiting team will get good players regardless of where the picks are and a bad team will also screw it up. And I've followed the team for four decades without success, and I've seen all manner of theories on how we can win a flag - none of which have worked - so you'll have to forgive me when I say I just want to enjoy what ever wins we can get without worrying about some pie-in-the-sky promise for a flag years from now.