Sorry, I looked at the wrong year.

Leuenberger had 8 possessions plus 1 goal in his second game.

For interest sake he had 3 possessions in his 1st, 7 in his third, 5 in his fourth and 6 in his fifth. No goals from any of those.

Also similar raw talls picked early: Lachy Hansen had a sequence of 6, 5, 7 in his first 3 games - pick 3 2006

Scott Gumbleton had a debut to forget with 5 possessions - pick 2 2006 (games 2 and 3 were good)

And the great Wayne Carey also debuted at 18. His sequence 7, 6, 7 - no goals from his first 3 games.

And as already mentioned: Brendan Fevola had 1 possession in his first and 1 possession in his second for a grand tally of 2 posssessions from his first two games.. He too debuted at 18.

Note: Watts is almost a year younger than a couple of these other 18 year olds

*Perspective*

You should be banned.

Reason: Too much reason.

I actually am leaning towards Freak's assessment here, and have thought this for a while. We keep seeing draft camp results and then we see the application of those skills and are let down. I also reckon guys lose pace the older they get... even if only by a fraction, largely to do with gaining so much weight. Perhaps they lose agility moreso...

Watts' athleticism will actually increase with training. He is a kid who has never done any real hard training before this season. Add to this the toll of such a heavy block that he and Blease undertook earlier in the season and of course his movement and athleticism will be down. I am not concerned at all by his perceived lack of athleticism. Onward to 2010 for Jack.

Actually tim, if you're going to talk about the past at least get it right. You bombarded me with pm's and I asked you to stop. You continued to send me pm's and in one of them you actually threatened me, remember that timmy? Do you really want everyone here at demonland knowing that you tried to threaten me? Of course I lol'd and said go ahead, give me your best shot then I blocked you.

You know tim, internet vendetta's are hilarious, but they do nothing but embarrass the person who has the grudge. Either discuss the topic or go away because no one cares about your personal internet vendetta that you have going on. If you want me to unblock you so you can continue to get your rocks off then I'm more than happy if that will save everyone else having to continue to read your crud.

Oh, almost forgot, post no.35 in the thread, as I've already said I've already responded to you, FFS how many times do I have to say it,

Next time read the thread before having to make the rest of us to endure your lunacy and making an absolute fool of yourself, there's your response you idiot

You have not answered my question. Try again. Sniping at me is just avoidant. If you cannot answer the question I've asked, stop posting. If you want to get bitchy, PM me.

Answer the question or stop posting Jarka.

Keep him in. Looked better tonight. I want to see how he goes against lesser opposition to get his confidence up. Keep him in this week and for the west coast game.

Mathews was far and away the best player I've seen and l grew up living next to him and his family, still see his daughter at the gym every week, so in other words l like him and his family, especially his ex-wife, but he is completely wrong on this one. The kids played TWO games, and big games

that were the centre of attention and IMO didn't look to bad apart from being overawed at times,. Both big games, FFS sake Reiwoldt played 6 games in his first year and had 5 possies in first game and looked totally out of place.

Leigh Mathews, how many premierships has he been involved in? I reckon he might know a thing or two about footy.

In terms of modern 1st picks showing a bit in their first year Watts is very far behind the rest of the group, this is not putting the kid down or being negative, this is just stating a simple fact. However we all knew that his first year was never going to be anything special because of were he came from and his lack of pre season. Well this isn't completely true, alot of Melbourne fans expected alot more of him this year even though they knew where he came from and what he's done, this is something I don't really understand.

Last night Watts looked slow, slow to react and slow to pick up the pace of the game. He did take a couple of well judged marks and showed his kicking skills though, but overall he looked like a schoolboy playing against men....er sound familiar?

I don't expect anything from Watts untill after a couple of pre seasons, I'm not going to make any judgements untill his body matures, I will make observations though, and that's what Mathews did last night.

In his first year, Bryce Gibbs played mostly back pocket and was roundly taunted for being scared. Pagan did it to give him experience and not get him smashed. We've been nothing like this conserative with Jack when he' s played. Therefore, according to your own miserable pathetic half-baked load of donkey tripe argument, Jack is more developed that a modern 1st pick. The vairbe in question is 'ability to play his position'.

Bang. POOF! And you entire argument goes up in smoke.

But wait there's more. People have already compared Jack's stats to other KPF's drafted number of one or 1st round (or jbrown). Satistically he is little different. So on the 'output' measure we are all fine!

Brendan Goddard to 4 years to (a) find a position and (B) lose the tag that he ducked his head. Jack has neither concenrn.

Three example, three easy wins. Do everyone a favour, including that shattered stuffed toy you call a personality, and bury yourself.

Go away Jarka. Don't stink up this site ywith you rambleing genrealations that you cannot support.

timD and Jarka; unblock your PMs and continue there.

The rest of us don't care about your bickering.

timD and Jarka; unblock your PMs and continue there.

The rest of us don't care about your bickering.

I don't care either, I'm not going to respond to the idiot because I think we've all had enough of his crap

Matthews just said on Gameday on 7 that he looked like a "boy playing amongst men" & that he looked like he hadn't played much footy above school level. Well thanks Captain Obvious!! You know why he does look like a boy? BECAUSE HE IS!!!!!

He also said that he could not see any future path to the top for the Dees, & that Fridays game was the first Demons game for the year that he has bothered to take a look at.

He also said that he could not see any future path to the top for the Dees, & that Fridays game was the first Demons game for the year that he has bothered to take a look at.

He's speaking his mind, which is fair enough, but the bottom line is I'm positive that he knows absolutely nothing about our list.

its always good when someone makes big critisms and comments regarding something, then goes on to say that they are so bad that in fact i havn't bothered to watch them all year.

so basically he made his assumptions p preseason, hasn't watched any games, probably read a newspaper report or two, then made his assumptions on one game, where we got smashed in one quarter, won two quarters, and had the umpires give them a free ride in the other?

Matthews just said on Gameday on 7 that he looked like a "boy playing amongst men" & that he looked like he hadn't played much footy above school level. Well thanks Captain Obvious!! You know why he does look like a boy? BECAUSE HE IS!!!!!

He also said that he could not see any future path to the top for the Dees, & that Fridays game was the first Demons game for the year that he has bothered to take a look at.

My thoughts exactly. He looks like a kid in a mans game because that's what he is. What does Matthews expect? 10 goals in his second game? Give him a break.

Watts did well on Friday night. He kicked his first major, which will relieve him of a lot of pressure and give him a lot of confidence.

I say give him a rest, don't play him in the Brissy game, then bring him back against the Eagles where I think he's a good chance to play in his first win.

timD and Jarka; unblock your PMs and continue there.

The rest of us don't care about your bickering.

Geddy, I appreciate your frustration. I've asked relevant questions about his claim about Watts - that is the topic of this thread. He's not responded. In my last two posts I've given examples and he has responded by saying that he won't respond.

So, he leaves me with few options - he ducks publically and avoids PM's. Jarka has me blocked, not the other way round.

Jarka, to appease Geddy, why don't we stay on-topic. I've given example of Watts not being behind other "modern 1st picks". Any problems with what I've said on that issue?

My thoughts of Leigh Matthews as a commentator have taken a sharp decline following his comments on Game Day this morning.

He begins by saying that Friday night was the first time he'd seen the Demons live this year. So, based on that game, he then went on to say he cannot see how we are going to climb to the top. Quite incredulous, really. Clearly doesn't pay much attention to any game other than that which he commentates on.

However, whilst some people here cannot/will not agree with him, his comments about Watts are correct. He is a boy playing against men, he isn't fit enough, and he's had minimal impact on either game he's played. It doesn't matter what we think/know about him, Watts hasn't shown the football world why he went number 1. We all know here that the football he's playing at the moment isn't indicative of what we're going to get from Watts, and none of us should have expected anything from a school kid without a pre-season and without proper weekly training. But none of that makes Matthews comments on Watts wrong.

Personally, I'm glad we played him. I'd rather a not-yet-ready Watts getting invaluable AFL experience than a has-been like Bell, Newton or Dunn.

I never thought I'd say this but I'm sick of hearing about Jack Watts!

AND to add to that I'm sick of this season.. I'm putting myself into a self induced coma... Wake me up when we're good again please.

TimD and Jarka I'd suggest you don't correspond; you clearly don't like each other and the forum doesn't benefit from your exchanges.

Drop the antagonism and abuse please and observe the COC. I've edited a few of your comments but I'd ask you to both review your posts and edit as appropriate, to be honest I can't be bothered being a nanny to two squabbling kids and I've got better things to do with my time.

I think where taking Lee's comments out of contexts here. I dont believe they were a good assumption of jack progress. And that was Matthews first game of watching Watts but he really hadn't done much until those comments were made. I dont think he is disputing the fact that he shouldn't of been pick 1, just take it as the fact that he hadn't shown much until that point in time.

things that have impressed me about watts so far.

- His disposal is no doubt one of the best in our team

- His confidence in his ability to use his left foot as if it was his right. At times i have noticed him leaning on his left side and hitting up a lead with his left when he had time to balance and use his right. Impressive!

- His kicking for goal

- He looks as if he has an extra second when he has the ball, time does not stop but it does slow down and makes him look like he has extra time to dispose of the ball

Loving IT.

Personally, I'm glad we played him. I'd rather a not-yet-ready Watts getting invaluable AFL experience than a has-been like Bell, Newton or Dunn.

Yup, fully agree.

IMO, we should "rest" him from AFL this week and avoid him having to make the trip up to brisbane and the interruption this causes his schooling/development etc, and let him take the lessons he has learned against the pies/dons into a casey game.

THen bring him back for the following WCE game at the G, where there will be significantly less pressure, and hopefully he can play in a win in either that game or the port adelaide one (we need a win or due for one, just ensure the place doesn't go to crap - obviously no more than 4 in total though)

It's difficult to make assertions when I haven't been in an AFL environment, but Crawford today and another former AFL player earlier in the year suggested that he should play interstate due to the bonding of travelling with your teammates. It's a different environment and helps him feel part of the group and get to know his teammates better.

I see merit in him playing against Brisbane for these reasons.

It's difficult to make assertions when I haven't been in an AFL environment, but Crawford today and another former AFL player earlier in the year suggested that he should play interstate due to the bonding of travelling with your teammates. It's a different environment and helps him feel part of the group and get to know his teammates better.

I see merit in him playing against Brisbane for these reasons.

It's an interesting argument, isn't it? On the one hand, he doesn't look capable of playing AFL football at the moment. He's not having too much of an impact. And we have other players running around in the VFL who are much fitter (e.g. Maric). Plus, as Nathan Thompson said, in his physical state it wouldn't take much to get an injury that could stall his development.

On the other hand, he gets the experience of an interstate trip, he gets to play against some huge bodies at Brisbane, and he gets more AFL experience.

I'm not sure where I sit on this one now that I've thought about it.

What Leigh has seen or not seen is irrellavant

After 2 games who can tell

Watts certainly needs to develop his body before being put into a key position

Its nothing new

A kid who is already a big unit ,Hawkins from Geelong for example has the body to play KPF

If Watts was the physical size of Hawkins his ability to play the position against MEN would not come into question

I would play him between HFF and HBF but prominently on the Wing

I think where taking Lee's comments out of contexts here.

Here, recorded for posterior from the telling-vision, is what Leigh Matthews said:

"Been watching Watts for the last five minutes, just the way he's been, sort of going about it, just to try and get a feel. I mean, whenever you're the first draft choice, you take particular notice, I mean, he's... he's very young, he's very under-prepared just at the moment, I don't think... I haven't seen anything that tells me why he was the first draft choice, yet."

There was a slight, but pointed, emphasis on "yet".

Dennis Cometti followed up:

"Well, that last chase on Ryder showed a little more desperation. It seemed he went up a cog. Now. They say he's automatic [Jack was lining up for goal]. He is. Gets his second goal. Well done."

over the last two weeks there have been 3-4 times where he has been in good space in the forward line and ignored/not seen. i suppose an interesting question is, is this because the players don't really know him (i.e. yong recruit who is only around occassionally etc) or because he was genuinely not seen any of these times?

if it is the former, an interstate trip may be a good chance to rectify some of those issues, and if they were rectified could have seen him have more shots at goal the last few weeks (they really don't kick to him unless he is on his own or on a lead). if it is the latter, perhaps the coaches need to have a serious look at some of the players vision capabilities.

I wonder if Watts will be rested for the trip to Brisbane next week? I'd prefer him to play as many games as possible, but with school and everything it might be easier on him to play him in Melbourne only.

i reckon youre on the money, Bailey has been very smart with his handling of Watts as well as Grimes

On the sunday footy show they were saying that Watts should play next week, and then play at Casey for the rest of the year. I think he will play next week, now he has played a solid game and kicked a couple of goals, I don't think he should be rested.