Newton and Sylvia....pole opposites

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

What I'm confused about is that last year, Bailey said we would essentially play the same 22 for the first 6 weeks to "cut the fat" in a way, to find out which players had it and which we needn't bother with.

Newton wasn't seen between Round One and Round Fifteen, did little in those matches and yet won a two year contract.

I'm still a little stunned

Last year we had a number of players who either injured at the start of the year or had little pre season. It was Bailey's first season as Coach. He need to know which players could and could not perform under pressure. There were a number of senior players like Yze, White, Robbo, Neitz etc with question marks about their future at the top level. 3 of the 4 are gone with the other one with an uncertain future.

I was surprised they gave Newton another contract. But I would suggest its for low bickies and done with the hope he could show something at least until better options emerge.

[45HG 1,539]

Why two years though?

That's why I'm confused. I understand the question marks over the senior players, but I also see there was a giant question mark over Newton.

Sure, we had injuries and Robbo and Neitz went down, but did we really have to sign him to the end of 2010 waiting for something else to pop up?

[1858 285]

Why two years though?

That's why I'm confused. I understand the question marks over the senior players, but I also see there was a giant question mark over Newton.

Sure, we had injuries and Robbo and Neitz went down, but did we really have to sign him to the end of 2010 waiting for something else to pop up?

If he is earning biscuits then I guess it dosen't matter too much between 1 year or two years. I just think the club kept him for insurance and to see what he might do but it appears to be a foregone conclusion that he won't actually do that much. As long as we don't have to watch him play (ie do nothing) that much then I can handle two years as if he wasn't there. When I look at Newton he plays 1980's style football. He actually reminds me of Simon Beasley back in his day - slow, talented, can take a mark here or there and kick a couple but in no means worried about doing 1%ers. Newton is averse to modern football in all it's competitiveness and professionalism, I say we put him in a time machine and send him back to 1985.

[Paul Prympke 14]

I can't quite remember which game it was but it was in 2007, it was a close game, we were down, not by much (and had in fact been in front serveral times), however it was the last 10 minutes and the opposition had begun to ice it, chip kicking the ball around. 17 Melbourne players picked someone up, the 18th bloke who was floating in the middle of nowhere, effectively minding his own shadow was Sylvia. Garry Lion made note of this, and finger pointed him, highlighting that there was 1 player letting down his entire team and we would becuase of it. He was right, we lost by just under 2 goals, Sylvia refused to get a man the entire time. To me that moment really summed up the type of player the Sylvia was (and still is), someone who plays footy between in his ears, but only between his ears. He was little or no concern of his team-mates (or at least appears to), and it is really disappointing from both our prospectives and the teams. That is the only part of his game that needs to change, while I agree he's not going to be superstar, I think that a return of 30 goals and 18p's and 6-7 marks a game is a great return from him, but to do that he needs to work for his team, until he does that, we can't reward him with ground time IMO.

Newton is a flash in the pan, who can kick goals at VFL level, but lacks the humility and respect the top level deserves. Unless you've proven yourself over an extended period of time, you do not belong at the top level. But then has anyone stopped to think that maybe he's not arrogant and does not have a poor attitude, maybe he's just a little slower to catch on than we'd all hoped and is still learning the game, where to go and how to be smart about it. Fevola was once considered lazy, he's still not that much of a work horse, but he does lead to smarter positions (I'm not syaing Newton will be any where near as good as Fev, but I'm making a point). Newton does not belong at AFL level at the moment, but maybe the 2 year contract is a reflection on Bailey's assesment on how long his development will take. We can't make statements as to why he was offered his contract as none of us were in the room when it was negotiated or decided. Right now, Newton is not up to AFL, but maybe he'll come on.

But for the moment, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water, we are in a development phase, so we'd rather have the Sylvia-Newton problem now then in 2 years time.

[Redleg 40,834]

I don't expect Sylvia to be a star nor do I expect Newton to be a top full forward. All I expect is that if they are in the team they perform to a standard that retains their spot. If not, drop them until their form warrants a return. I don't want to see poorly performing players in the side. End of story.

At the moment they belong with Casey.

[montasaurus 0]

But for the moment, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water, we are in a development phase, so we'd rather have the Sylvia-Newton problem now then in 2 years time.

Great Assessment PP, I agree lets cross our fingers for 2 years time.

[H_T 3,043]

It amazes me the reactions to a few players after one game. Makes me think what would be posted had our team won.....

Colin Sylvia will Give us Nothing More Than Headaches in the Future. I Now Doubt he is a top line Player. Time is rapidly Fading For Colin.

We'll see.

Disagree completely!!!

I think people are sooooo off the mark with Sylvia.

The problem is that people expect him to be a champion simply because he was pick 3. The reality however, is that there are only about 5-10 quality players to come out of that draft and it was extrmely poor draft. Think about how many top 10 picks turn out to be duds and don't even play an AFL game. Simply because you're a top pick means you have the potential to be a superstar.

Sylvia is and will be for a very long time a good/very good player for MFC. nothing more and nothing less. He will play on a forward flank most of this year and i predict he will, on average, get 15-18 quality possessions and kick a couple of goals. This is a more than respectable return. Not the return of a superstar, but a good return for a pretty good player.

We need to change our mindset with Sylvia. We will gain a 150 player who averages around 1-2 goals a game and shows some genuine glimpses of magic. He will play on the wing or as a forward. He will never be MFC's best player, and never the most important player.

Regardless of what other think, I like watching Sylvia play and will continue to enjoy this for the next few years.

If he was a ND pick 20-25 player. There wouldn't be this type of discussion. What was Dunn? pick 14? First round pick?

If the NAB games were over I'd agree with the approach suggested in the OP.

However, there's a bit of water to go under the bridge just yet.

Exactly.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

It amazes me the reactions to a few players after one game. Makes me think what would be posted had our team won.....

The performances of Newton and Sylvia are not isolated. But you are right had we won there would not be so much emotive woebegone whinging.

If he was a ND pick 20-25 player. There wouldn't be this type of discussion. What was Dunn? pick 14? First round pick?

Possibly not.

However if our a number of our first round picks either dont cut it at AFL level or perform as ordinary run of the mill football then hard questions and assessments should be asked about our recruiting and development of players.

2002 - #12 - Bell

2003 - # 3 - Sylvia

2004 - #13 - Bate

2004- #15 - Dunn

2004 - #12 - Moloney (Trade)

2005 - #12 - Jones

It undermines the future of the Club if the best you can extract out of this group a couple of NQR C graders or taggers. There is time for a couple of the younger ones. But there are a too many who still have big question marks on them. If you cant access good talent from your top picks then where do you get it from??

If Jack Watts does not turn out to be an elite footballer that becomes critical and a big contributor to MFC's rise back up the ladder then I will be really [censored] off.

[Maric Legend 0]

I can't quite remember which game it was but it was in 2007, it was a close game, we were down, not by much (and had in fact been in front serveral times), however it was the last 10 minutes and the opposition had begun to ice it, chip kicking the ball around. 17 Melbourne players picked someone up, the 18th bloke who was floating in the middle of nowhere, effectively minding his own shadow was Sylvia. Garry Lion made note of this, and finger pointed him, highlighting that there was 1 player letting down his entire team and we would becuase of it. He was right, we lost by just under 2 goals, Sylvia refused to get a man the entire time. To me that moment really summed up the type of player the Sylvia was (and still is), someone who plays footy between in his ears, but only between his ears. He was little or no concern of his team-mates (or at least appears to), and it is really disappointing from both our prospectives and the teams. That is the only part of his game that needs to change, while I agree he's not going to be superstar, I think that a return of 30 goals and 18p's and 6-7 marks a game is a great return from him, but to do that he needs to work for his team, until he does that, we can't reward him with ground time IMO.

Pretty sure this game was the Queens B'day match v Collingwood last year, I remember the exact same comments about how Sylvia was just standing there and not manning someone up.

[Sir Why You Little 36,971]

It amazes me the reactions to a few players after one game. Makes me think what would be posted had our team won.....

We'll see.

If he was a ND pick 20-25 player. There wouldn't be this type of discussion. What was Dunn? pick 14? First round pick?

Exactly.

I have Been Skeptical of Sylvia For the past 2 years. Last Saturday was just another nail in his coffin. We should have won last saturday, But because Colin was Basically Lazy at Critical Times we Didn't. Six Years of Waiting. No Top Line club would do that. Its about time we took the same attitude.

[montasaurus 0]

I think everybody is getting a little heavy on CS. Attitude aside let look at the 03 ND.

l Draft Summary - Aside from Brock Mclean I don't know who else we could have taken in hindsight. 6 players in the 1st rd with <10 games. Andrew Walker is yet to stamp himself IMO and Cooney has question marks until last season. If the perceived attitude/persona issues can be resolved he may yet become the 2nd or 3rd best player out of this draft. I think a few are marking him a bit hard at this point. Lets face it we all know he can play. Just has to get more consistant and maybe hurt for the club a bit more. Look at selections 9,10,14,16,17,18? I think there are other clubs that would have killed to get CS 1st rd 2003!

1 Priority Western Bulldogs Adam Cooney 112

2 Priority Carlton Andrew Walker Carlton 81

3 Priority Melbourne Colin Sylvia Melbourne 70

1 4 Western Bulldogs Farren Ray 75

1 5 Melbourne Brock McLean Melbourne 75

1 6 Essendon Kepler Bradley Fremantle 58

1 7 Geelong Kane Tenace Geelong 54

1 8 St Kilda Raphael Clarke St Kilda 41

1 9 North Melb David Trotter 7

1 10 Fremantle Ryley Dunn 8

1 11 West Coast Beau Waters 61

1 12 Fremantle Ryan Murphy Fremantle 40

1 13 Essendon Brent Stanton Essendon 98

1 14 Adelaide Fergus Watts 6

1 15 Port Adelaide Troy Chaplin 61

1 16 Sydney Josh Willoughby 0

1 17 Collingwood Billy Morrison 0

1 18 Brisbane Llane Spaanderman 3

2 19 Fremantle David Mundy Fremantle 86

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

11,12,13,15,19, and 33 (Adcock) for starters. Sam Fisher is somewhere in there at pick 50+

If the Club had two first round picks its critical that we get it right. McLean, subject to fitness, is one part of the jigsaw puzzle for the midfield.

Taking a player at #3 and he does not become after 70 games and six years more than a fringe player then its a fail in my book regardless. I have long killed my initial expectation of Sylvia as a giant killer. As I have said earlier I had hoped he would at least have been a solid player for us. He has had too many poor performances to date.

Spark up Col.

[Chook 15,012]

I think everybody is getting a little heavy on CS. Attitude aside let look at the 03 ND.

l Draft Summary - Aside from Brock Mclean I don't know who else we could have taken in hindsight. 6 players in the 1st rd with <10 games. Andrew Walker is yet to stamp himself IMO and Cooney has question marks until last season. If the perceived attitude/persona issues can be resolved he may yet become the 2nd or 3rd best player out of this draft. I think a few are marking him a bit hard at this point. Lets face it we all know he can play. Just has to get more consistant and maybe hurt for the club a bit more. Look at selections 9,10,14,16,17,18? I think there are other clubs that would have killed to get CS 1st rd 2003!

1 Priority Western Bulldogs Adam Cooney 112

2 Priority Carlton Andrew Walker Carlton 81

3 Priority Melbourne Colin Sylvia Melbourne 70

1 4 Western Bulldogs Farren Ray 75

1 5 Melbourne Brock McLean Melbourne 75

1 6 Essendon Kepler Bradley Fremantle 58

1 7 Geelong Kane Tenace Geelong 54

1 8 St Kilda Raphael Clarke St Kilda 41

1 9 North Melb David Trotter 7

1 10 Fremantle Ryley Dunn 8

1 11 West Coast Beau Waters 61

1 12 Fremantle Ryan Murphy Fremantle 40

1 13 Essendon Brent Stanton Essendon 98

1 14 Adelaide Fergus Watts 6

1 15 Port Adelaide Troy Chaplin 61

1 16 Sydney Josh Willoughby 0

1 17 Collingwood Billy Morrison 0

1 18 Brisbane Llane Spaanderman 3

2 19 Fremantle David Mundy Fremantle 86

Yep. Out of that draft, the top three picks, in hindsight, seem to be as follows:

1. Adam Cooney

2. Brock McLean

3. Colin Sylvia

So I don't think we did too badly to get two of them.

[titan_uranus 24,974]

I'd take Stanton over Sylvia any day. Or Sam Fisher. But it's not about that. It's about his poor on-field performances. I'm not saying we should have drafted someone else. I'm saying Sylvia should be playing at a higher level and with greater consistency, and he's not. As RR says, that's a fail.

[mo64 5,853]

However if our a number of our first round picks either dont cut it at AFL level or perform as ordinary run of the mill football then hard questions and assessments should be asked about our recruiting and development of players.

2002 - #12 - Bell

2003 - # 3 - Sylvia

2004 - #13 - Bate

2004- #15 - Dunn

2004 - #12 - Moloney (Trade)

2005 - #12 - Jones

Hindsight draft analysis when I side is playing poorly. Don't you love it. Did you express this opinion of these players in 2006? IMO, with the exception of Bell, the rest of the players are capable of being good AFL players.

This is part of the group of players that you said could win the flag in 2007. Ha, ha, ha

[paddo 0]

Newton's blown more opportunities than his form deserves.

Rhino, Newton played 6 games last year. Rounds 1, 15-17, 20-21. Surely you couldn't call this a "decent run". He had an injury interrupted season and was part of a forward structure (if you could call it that) starved of opportunity. He made his senior debut in ND's farewell match so he entered the fray at a very challenging time for the club.

I don't mind being proven wrong, and that may well be the case, but I like to give people a "decent run" before writing them off.

[Sir Why You Little 36,971]

I think everybody is getting a little heavy on CS. Attitude aside let look at the 03 ND.

Attitude aside you say. That's Colin Sylvia's Problem ATTITUDE. He Gets Well Paid to play very ordinary Football. Someone in the Football Dept has Got to put a Rocket up his Clacker and Get Some Passion for the Team & His Team Mates.

Attitude aside...... Nobody wants to take the Hard Line with Colin.

Boot Camp Might Be the Answer.."Full Metal Jacket" Style.

Six Years of Mediocraty...............How Much Longer?????

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Rhino, Newton played 6 games last year. Rounds 1, 15-17, 20-21. Surely you couldn't call this a "decent run". He had an injury interrupted season and was part of a forward structure (if you could call it that) starved of opportunity. He made his senior debut in ND's farewell match so he entered the fray at a very challenging time for the club.

Did you see him in those games last year? His effort or lack there of was nothing short of embarrassing. It begged the question whether he is serious about AFL. He was given a 2 year contract and has not repaid the faith well.

He has not been starved of opportunity. Bizarrely he just cant get it into his head to grasp the huge opportunity he had been given. FFS last year Neitz fell away, Robbo got injured and Newts got himself suspended in the VFL.

He has got the vigour for AFL of lukewarm custard.

Did you express this opinion of these players in 2006? IMO, with the exception of Bell, the rest of the players are capable of being good AFL players.

Yes I did.

I started asking questions about the Class of 2003 in 2006 after three years of football. A number of the top 10 players were already showing signs that they weren't up to scratch. Ray, Bradley, Tenace and Dunn were all with big question marks. Cooney was talented but inconsistent. Sylvia was screwed by OP.

It was not good signs.

What would have been your alternative analysis to be done at that time Mo?

This is part of the group of players that you said could win the flag in 2007. Ha, ha, ha

Its part of the same group of players that you have tried to con people to say that the list in 2006 that beat St Kilda in the EF was the same as the list in 2007 and 2008.

I noticed you did not respond on that one. Got exposed....again.

[titan_uranus 24,974]

Rhino, Newton played 6 games last year. Rounds 1, 15-17, 20-21. Surely you couldn't call this a "decent run". He had an injury interrupted season and was part of a forward structure (if you could call it that) starved of opportunity. He made his senior debut in ND's farewell match so he entered the fray at a very challenging time for the club.

I don't mind being proven wrong, and that may well be the case, but I like to give people a "decent run" before writing them off.

There was a good reason why he didn't play between Rounds 1 and 15: Round 1. He was abysmal. It's hard for coaches to let players who exhibit such a low level of enthusiasm, effort and skill continue to play in a team that gets thrashed by 100 points. I have no qualms with the extended layoff. You have to work hard to get games at AFL level, and Newton certainly didn't do that.

[montasaurus 0]

Interesting to see newton was BOG fri against bris. In horrid conditions, I would have thought he would be one of the 1st to suffer due to the conditions and his style of play.

This could be the biggest positive to take out of the match. Without seeing any of it, I would have to suggest there has been a big turn around in his endevour and attack on the ball to be named BOG in these types of conditions. Lets hope this form continues, if it does this could well be the biggest positive to come out of the PS. We must have another tall option to help bate and miller! Looking very forward to SAT game v doggies to see how he goes