Dont enjoy having a crack just find your ignorance at your own bias frustrating. Two players could do the exact same piece of play and you would interpret it differently based on who they are ie: Newton v Robbo, Mclean v Sylvia.

My views on the three just for completeness sake:

Sylvia: Needs to reduce the gap between his disinterest for the contest (first half) and his ability to impact the game (would have put him in our best three second half). Reduce those and he will not be a star like we hoped but he could be a strong contributor.

Newton:He would still be getting a game for mine. Aside from three ugly shots on goal has looked our most effective forward (that is not saying much though). Has Robertson done more in 2 games than Newton did in his last 2 before being dropped? Anyone that says his defensive pressure is poor needs to seriously watch him play as it has improved substantially. Needs to improve his body work and brainfades but could still be an important cog in our forwardline and should be given opportunity to find if that is the case.

Bate: Am not really a fan and would have either of the above two in the firsts ahead of him. Not quite a KPF or mid. Poor below knees and laterally. Booming kick but takes forever to get it to boot and it falls away under pressure.

I think Sylvia has the skills but not the ability to get involved in games for four quarters, you call him disinterested. Maybe that should give you a clue as to why I will always rate McLean more highly, because McLean may struggle to impact a game, but he will never appear disinterested. Players who work hard on and off the ball will always have my respect, and that is exactly why I call Bruce on his poor disposal, but I never question his work rate (I actually admire it).

We agree on Bate, and yet it's OK for you to mention that he's poor below his knees, but if I say it, I'm biased?

As for Newton, if you think that Robbo hasn't shown more than Newton in his two games this season, than I'm going to have to highlight to you just how bias you are towards Newton.

If Newton is still playing at 30 (doubtful), and manages to come back from a torn achilles, and then proceeds to kick 3 goals (bringing up his tally to 400, plus 2 B&Fs) upon his return, and then takes some very good contested grabs and kicks 2 more the following week, then maybe we can start comparing and contrasting the two (and yes, Robbo can be pretty lazy when it comes to applying defensive pressure... just mentioning that, you know, in case you think I'm wearing my rose-tinted glasses again).

I think Sylvia has the skills but not the ability to get involved in games for four quarters, you call him disinterested. Maybe that should give you a clue as to why I will always rate McLean more highly, because McLean may struggle to impact a game, but he will never appear disinterested. Players who work hard on and off the ball will always have my respect, and that is exactly why I call Bruce on his poor disposal, but I never question his work rate (I actually admire it).

We agree on Bate, and yet it's OK for you to mention that he's poor below his knees, but if I say it, I'm biased?

As for Newton, if you think that Robbo hasn't shown more than Newton in his two games this season, than I'm going to have to highlight to you just how bias you are towards Newton.

If Newton is still playing at 30 (doubtful), and manages to come back from a torn achilles, and then proceeds to kick 3 goals (bringing up his tally to 400, plus 2 B&Fs) upon his return, and then takes some very good contested grabs and kicks 2 more the following week, then maybe we can start comparing and contrasting the two (and yes, Robbo can be pretty lazy when it comes to applying defensive pressure... just mentioning that, you know, in case you think I'm wearing my rose-tinted glasses again).

You miss the point again. You analyse a players game/performance with emotive bias. You decide whether you like/dislike a player and then praise/defend them at every opportunity or kick them at any opportunity that arises. Once you have made your mind up you are not willing to accept that you may be wrong and concede that the game or they may have changed in importance. You cease to accept that they could have a bad game(s) or if they do surmise the underlying reason. You then back it up with historical reasons which are unrelated. I admit I have my favourites but I dont view each players output output with a differing set of rules.

To say you will always rate a poor game of Mclean's above Sylvia because he works hard is ridiculous. Mclean is probably my favourite player and even I admit he was poor on the weekend. I also admit that we may have seen the best of him. Sylvia is highly frustrating but his second half was one of the reasons we nearly won the game.

Nothing wrong with stating that Bate is poor below his knees. You asked me for a view I chose to provide you a factual view. If you point me to the post where I called it bias I am sure I can identify why.

Thanks for the historical background of Robertson last 2 games but it further highlights my point. What has that got to do with looking at the two games I compared. Granted Robertson has taken more marks in the compared games but Newton had more kicks, tackles and shots on goal. It is only his failure to kick straight that has him out of the side. Yet you praise one and bag another for historical and emotive reasons.

Happy to continue to identify your biased responses as you post if that helps in any way.

Mclean is probably my favourite player and even I admit he was poor on the weekend.

As did I. I've been commenting on his poor output all season actually. The difference between you and me is that I don't just accept poor performances from players that have proven themselves in the past, I try to question why it is that they are playing the way they are.

McLean to me looks injured (and his anger two weeks ago as he came to the bench, would suggest to me that he's frustrated at himself), but that does not prevent him from working hard on and off the ball.

Sylvia may have had a good second half, but his glimpses don't excite me, and if by your assessment he spent half the game being disinterested, than that to me is a much bigger football crime than missing targets or being slow. Sylvia is probably more talented than McLean in terms of pure skills, but one gets the best out of himself, and one doesn't. That's why I will stick up for one and not the other. When Sylvia strings together good performances consistently, I promise you that I will be the first to praise him.

As for the Robbo vs. Newton comparison, I'm not even gonna go there. It's sheer insanity.

You can find the biggest knocker of Robbo, and he'll still tell you that what Robbo brings to the team, Newton never has. I was excited at Newton's prospects, and have commended him for addressing his issue with defensive pressure, but the main difference between Robbo and Newton, is that Robbo takes the best defender, beats them one on one, gives us a real target to kick to because of his ability to take contested marks, doesn't fluff easy shots at goal, and has the mental toughness to bounce back when things are not going his way (he missed two gettable shots in his first game back, but still nailed the others... had Newton missed two easy shots at the start of the game, I doubt he would have bounced back).

Newton will get another chance at AFL level, and I hope he can deliver, but from what I've seen, he's a lost cause. I don't seem to be alone in my views either, but apparently when I express an opinion it's biased, when others do, it's insightful and correct

Every single view expressed on Demonland carries bias. I don't try to force my opinion on anyone, but I don't try to conceal it either.

Bate: Am not really a fan and would have either of the above two in the firsts ahead of him.

How do you reconcile your view of Bate with the fact he is the second highest in AFL for goal assists??

I agree he has weaknesses but when he gets it he helps us score which at the moment we don't do much of.

I find evaluating him as a player very difficult.

I find evaluating him as a player very difficult.

you are not alone... He's a conundrum wrapped in an enigma

Dont enjoy having a crack just find your ignorance at your own bias frustrating. Two players could do the exact same piece of play and you would interpret it differently based on who they are ie: Newton v Robbo, Mclean v Sylvia.

Correct, but Jaded isn't alone. Defending Sylvia has become a hobby for me, just for the sake of balance. So many people here and at games talk absolute rubbish about Sylvia then go on to turn a blind eye to substandard performances of their favourites.

For the record, Jack Watts is my favourite. Mainly because he is yet to play and I haven't identified his strengths and weaknesses and he represents the light at the end of the tunnel.

Fan: Bate is hard to evaluate. I believe he was played out of form as a deep leading forward for the sake of team balance. Now that Robertson is back I hope he will play further up the ground where his running ability will help the team.

How do you reconcile your view of Bate with the fact he is the second highest in AFL for goal assists??

I agree he has weaknesses but when he gets it he helps us score which at the moment we don't do much of.

I find evaluating him as a player very difficult.

Well, after (oops, almost) seven rounds, the goal assist table now looks (interestingly) like this:

Robert Gray --- 12

Steve Johnson - 11

Brad Johnson

Chance Bateman

Travis Varcoe

Paul Chapman -- 10

Matthew Bate

Jason Akermanis 9

Eddie Betts

Kane Cornes --- 8

Josh Hill

Paul Medhurst

Dale Thomas

Chris Judd ---- 7

I think it's great he's up there, and note that a goal assist is an effective disposal resulting in a goal, but never thought much of the stat per se. Oftentimes, a goal assist is well and truly the cart that came before the horse. Other times, like Stef Martins 'on the run to the pocket boundry 20m out bend and forward bounce/paddle to advantage, gather low down and, with someone still hot on his tail, place a beautifully executed precision banana in Robbos hands five metres out directly in front ' (phew) goal assist the previous week, they're sublime. Regardless though it is always a link in the chain, something I think the coaching staff would focus on. Happy for them to indicate via selections, and Bate with his game, where Bate goes from here.

Sylvia: Improving. Good signs.

How do you reconcile your view of Bate with the fact he is the second highest in AFL for goal assists??

I agree he has weaknesses but when he gets it he helps us score which at the moment we don't do much of.

I find evaluating him as a player very difficult.

Matthew Bate ------ Height 192cms / Weight 90 kgs - DOB 24/05/1987

Brendon Goddard - Height 191cms / Weight 92 kgs - DOB 20/05/1985

Goddard was/is one of those awkward sized player's who seem to take longer to develope, but worth the wait.

Matthew Bate ------ Height 192cms / Weight 90 kgs - DOB 24/05/1987

Brendon Goddard - Height 191cms / Weight 92 kgs - DOB 20/05/1985

Goddard was/is one of those awkward sized player's who seem to take longer to develope, but worth the wait.

Bate doesn't have the muscle twitch to be as quick as Goddard and, therefore, as effective.

Can still be a good HFF with a penetrating kick and a good brain.

But you are right to imply that the fans need patience...

Matthew Bate ------ Height 192cms / Weight 90 kgs - DOB 24/05/1987

Brendon Goddard - Height 191cms / Weight 92 kgs - DOB 20/05/1985

Goddard was/is one of those awkward sized player's who seem to take longer to develope, but worth the wait.

That's a bit rich.

You miss the point again. You analyse a players game/performance with emotive bias. You decide whether you like/dislike a player and then praise/defend them at every opportunity or kick them at any opportunity that arises. Once you have made your mind up you are not willing to accept that you may be wrong and concede that the game or they may have changed in importance. You cease to accept that they could have a bad game(s) or if they do surmise the underlying reason. You then back it up with historical reasons which are unrelated. I admit I have my favourites but I dont view each players output output with a differing set of rules.

To say you will always rate a poor game of Mclean's above Sylvia because he works hard is ridiculous. Mclean is probably my favourite player and even I admit he was poor on the weekend. I also admit that we may have seen the best of him. Sylvia is highly frustrating but his second half was one of the reasons we nearly won the game.

Nothing wrong with stating that Bate is poor below his knees. You asked me for a view I chose to provide you a factual view. If you point me to the post where I called it bias I am sure I can identify why.

Thanks for the historical background of Robertson last 2 games but it further highlights my point. What has that got to do with looking at the two games I compared. Granted Robertson has taken more marks in the compared games but Newton had more kicks, tackles and shots on goal. It is only his failure to kick straight that has him out of the side. Yet you praise one and bag another for historical and emotive reasons.

Happy to continue to identify your biased responses as you post if that helps in any way.

Please? Scarlett and Glass, Netwon wouldnt have got a kick.

What an awesome game from Col.

I'm happy to give credit where it is due. It was the best game I've seen him play to date. It is also the reason that he is so frustrating. Hopefully this is the beginning of a new Colin and not just a flash in the pan.

I'm happy to give credit where it is due. It was the best game I've seen him play to date. It is also the reason that he is so frustrating. Hopefully this is the beginning of a new Colin and not just a flash in the pan.

Minus his first few, Col's whole year has been better. Let's hope it continues

I'm happy to give credit where it is due. It was the best game I've seen him play to date. It is also the reason that he is so frustrating. Hopefully this is the beginning of a new Colin and not just a flash in the pan.

Spot on.

Brilliant today, in a display that actually justified his talent and high draft position.

Now if only he can back it up...

Best game I have seen him play for MFC.

I hope he takes alot from it today and progresses.

This year has been Cols best yet. Some of his bursts of play this season have been fantastic, better than we've ever seen from him. Also he's closing the gap between his good games and bad games. Dare I say It but he's playing like he wants to be a leader of the club.

Are we seeing a mature Colin Sylvia?

He's making a few people around here look mighty stupid ...

Amazing what happens when you stick by players, support them and offer help when needed.

Go Col! Some of us here are with you thru thick or thin.

Best game I have seen him play for MFC.

I hope he takes alot from it today and progresses.

He MUST now back it up again next week, not to the high of todays game, but a minimum of 20 touches and a goal is needed for him to have taken the "next step"

He MUST now back it up again next week, not to the high of todays game, but a minimum of 20 touches and a goal is needed for him to have taken the "next step"

Best game I've seen him play... Well done Col

Spot on.

Brilliant today, in a display that actually justified his talent and high draft position.

Now if only he can back it up...

I'm hoping... hoping that soft sound in the distance near Colin is the penny dropping.

Only thing is, I couldn't work out ALL game who was playing on Jordan Lewis... Hoping it wasn't Colin because Lewis brought his own football today

Great game, I hope he can maintain it

Bate doesn't have the muscle twitch to be as quick as Goddard and, therefore, as effective.

Can still be a good HFF with a penetrating kick and a good brain.

But you are right to imply that the fans need patience...

How would you know that???

By the way, Goddard aint what I'd call quick.

But a Very good footballer who took quite a few seasons to find his form, having grown into his football body.

Great game, I hope he can maintain it

And Stan Alves on 774 gave him 3 votes - best on ground (Dermy gave him 1 vote over at SEN).

But of course Stan's a mature head

In the words of the many great footballing ignoramuses that make regular contributions on here "Trade him!"