On a quick perusal of our list without naming everyone on it I think the following players need to step up for us to be successful.

Frawley, Newton, Dunn, Bate, Sylvia, Moloney, Bell and Jones.

All have had a couple of years at least. If Newton's 09 is like 08 I see no future for him.

I left out recent draftees and injured players and players who I don't think can improve enough, like Meesen, though I wish he would prove me wrong.

:D I could add to the list, but there'd be 26 names... 25 players and a coach.

And even then I think we still haven't even got the list that will get us there... even playing at its best.

I reckon what would be more pertinent would be a list of players who have not done enough to warrant their paychecks, reputations, drafting positions relative to their draft years, trade price, or the faith shown in them with no return as yet.

The list would be the same except I reckon Bate has shown plenty, Sylvia and Moloney have had injuries, and Jones has done enough for us not to be on his back. Also add Jamar, who still frustrates the bejeezus out of me, and PJ who had a really good year this year, but if he falls in a heap, it'll all be for nothing.

The reason I suggest this is that in my mind the plan, since Neale was dumped, has always been to recruit as many young players as possible over the space of three drafts. '07, '08 and '09. That's six a year from the draft itself. In '07 and '08 there were enough retirements, obvious delistings and dead wood that it was easy to see who had to make way for the 6 draftees, and whoever we took in the PSD and rookie draft.

But '09 will present a far more different equation than the past two years. We will only have JMac likely to hang them up, and maybe Robbo/Whelan... who both would be entitled to keep going if they play ok. Past that you would hope we'd make way with another 3-5 spots depending on trades etc etc...

So those names we talk about... the Bells, Bartrams, Jamars, Newtons... They suddenly have to be in the gun.

In other words the young players who don't come on the way we hope, most likely the later draft picks, will have to be let go... Which will be tough to stomach I'd imagine. Certainly it'd be tougher to see, say, a Cheney or McNamara go than a retiring Adem Yze.

Agree with the players you listed Redleg. I'll add Buckley and Bartram to that mix. Buckley IMO will flourish with improvement but more importantly with the improvement in players around him. It's a "help me, help you" scenario with Buckley. (ie quote from the Jerry Maguire movie). It's as if he would say to the guys, "look if you want me to break the lines, create and penetrate the ball into the forward line, you guys have got to help me out!" So, "help me, help you".

Bartram is an interesting one. He's almost on the fringe in my eyes. He'll need to step up too I think.

Agree with the players you listed Redleg. I'll add Buckley and Bartram to that mix. Buckley IMO will flourish with improvement but more importantly with the improvement in players around him. It's a "help me, help you" scenario with Buckley. (ie quote from the Jerry Maguire movie). It's as if he would say to the guys, "look if you want me to break the lines, create and penetrate the ball into the forward line, you guys have got to help me out!" So, "help me, help you".

Bartram is an interesting one. He's almost on the fringe in my eyes. He'll need to step up too I think.

Disagree on Buckley as I feel he has improved significantly.

Bartram was injured but I agree he is another that really needs to step up. If we were a good side he wouldn't get a game.

I'd be very surprised if Bartram gets a game next year.

The class of 2004 needs to step up next year:

Bate

Dunn

Newton

All had average years' and were dropped in round 22.

I'd be very surprised if Bartram gets a game next year.

The class of 2004 needs to step up next year:

Bate

Dunn

Newton

All had average years' and were dropped in round 22.

My monies on Bate to become a very good player over the next 2 years

Dunn to continue to improve and begin to not only close down opponents but use his dash to start creating play

Newton is so line ball. It's really up to him as to what happens. he has the talent but does he have the commitment?

Bartram, Clint

Bate, Matthew

Bell, Daniel

Bruce, Cameron

Buckley, Simon

Cheney, Kyle

Davey, Aaron

Dunn, Lynden

Frawley, James

Garland, Colin

Green, Brad

Grimes, Jack

Jamar, Mark

Johnson, Paul A.

Jones, Nathan

Maric, Addam

Martin, Stefan

McDonald, James

McLean, Brock

McNamara, Tom

Meesen, John

Miller, Brad

Moloney, Brent

Morton, Cale

Newton, Michael

Petterd, Ricky

Rivers, Jared

Robertson, Russell

Sylvia, Colin

Warnock, Matthew

Wheatley, Paul

Whelan, Matthew

Wonaeamirri, Austin

Colin Sylvia is going to finally step up this year. injury free.

As for the delistings at the end of next year, its going to be interesting. We have got rid of so many older players now. Most of the youth players have not had time to prove their worth. Yet we will still have to turn over.

You would think that Robo would have to put in an absolute stunning season for him to continue in 2010.

McDonald will be forced out by upcoming midfielders.

Whelan will be very unlucky to have his underated career cut short.

Bell is definitley looking down the barrell.

Meesen will be missed like a bullet wound to the head. (please someone confirm that we didnt give him a 3 year deal)

Bartram will need to step up to avoid this list.

Moloney must remain free from major injury.

Kyle Cheney and Tom McNamara would be out of contract, but im expecting them to show enough this year to be retained.

Some of these will be very hard choices at the end of the year. This is why CJ was only offered the performance based contract.

I believe Meesen will have one year left come October 31st 2009.

And I think it's far too early to be talking about possible de-listings next year, esp. after what happened this year with Garland, Warnock even CJ, Miller and Buckley.

Disagree on Buckley as I feel he has improved significantly.

Redleg I agree that Buckley had improved this year. I also believe there so much more scope for more improvement in him next year. That is why I need him to step up - as I'm sure we all would. I can't see how you could disagree with that.

THe '04 group is that one that I'd pay attention to, too. I also think that petterd and frawley better start to show a bit more than they have to date. I would not be surprised if Barts struggles this year.

I'd be very surprised if Bartram gets a game next year.

Well he finished 8th in the B+F and they gave him the famous number 3 so they obviously rate him highly. I doubt blokes like Frawley, Newton and Dunn will be pushing him out of the 22

He is just like Macca in that he never does anything flashy and so is at times overlooked

The whole list!

Crikey I think I am agreeing with YM!

THe '04 group is that one that I'd pay attention to, too. I also think that petterd and frawley better start to show a bit more than they have to date. I would not be surprised if Barts struggles this year.

Very astute timD. I think for Bate, Dunn, Moloney and Newton its put up time.

Jones - Needs to add a new dimension to his game.

Bate - Needs to be given a key place in the team.

Dunn - Consolidate yourself within a role.

Robertson - If we are to move forward, we need you showing the young boys up forward the way.

THe '04 group is that one that I'd pay attention to, too. I also think that petterd and frawley better start to show a bit more than they have to date. I would not be surprised if Barts struggles this year.

Almost died in '07 after a very good debut season and couldn't get on the park in '08 because of injuries.

If injuries are less of a problem next year then Bartram shouldn't get many games.

.................

Whelan will be very unlucky to have his underated career cut short.

Bell is definitley looking down the barrell.

Meesen will be missed like a bullet wound to the head. (please someone confirm that we didnt give him a 3 year deal)

Bartram will need to step up to avoid this list.

Moloney must remain free from major injury.

..........

Bell, Whelan and Moloney are yet to sign contracts for 09 (no announcements that I know of). Could be they're being offered 1 yr and/or performance based contracts?

Bell signed a two year deal. Not sure about Moloney or Whelen though

Bell signed a two year deal. Not sure about Moloney or Whelen though

You've ruined my night. I would have thought that he's in the same boat as CJ, fringe player who's playing for his AFL survival next season. A 1 year contract would suffice.

You've ruined my night. I would have thought that he's in the same boat as CJ, fringe player who's playing for his AFL survival next season. A 1 year contract would suffice.

CJ leaves, Bell is saved. That's pretty much what happened.

Bell signed a two year deal. ..........

Was this announced or reported anywhere?

Too early? :D