How ironic that these comments come from someone who has been belting on for some time about Demon supporters accepting mediocrity (which I agree with in principle with by the way). But now you say we are a joke and should cop it sweet - hypocrisy!

As usual your comments are charged with emotion, lack insight and are made without much thought!

I would also contend that YM or Goose or whoever he is posting as at the time is rarely posting out of a love of the game or concern about the MFC.

I would expect that his posts are a search for some significance or out of frustration of not wielding influence or having a voice in the "real" world. Footy just happens to be the topic he is best acquainted with.

This will no doubt be taken as a sledge but it isn't meant to be. Rather an observation. I agree with deanox and took his advice some time ago re YM.

How ironic that these comments come from someone who has been belting on for some time about Demon supporters accepting mediocrity (which I agree with in principle with by the way). But now you say we are a joke and should cop it sweet - hypocrisy!

As usual your comments are charged with emotion, lack insight and are made without much thought!

Yes we shiould cop it sweet.

Are you suggesting we would win more games if they were played 24 hours earlier?

Our draw is good.

For starters, the last 5 games are in Melbourne.

When was the last time that happened?

Yes we shiould cop it sweet.

Are you suggesting we would win more games if they were played 24 hours earlier?

Our draw is good.

For starters, the last 5 games are in Melbourne.

When was the last time that happened?

Fair enough.

I think we all acknowledge that.

What this is more about is attracting a major sponsor, which we currently lack, filling coporate seats and getting good gate receipts at games.

Our fixture, as it currently stands does not assist in anyway, in terms of a marketing plan.

We need, at the moment, all the assistance we can get.

Are you suggesting that no one should post on any topic or post he provides?

In short, yes.

It goes to the same script every time. Y_M posts something, most of the time it is outlanish. Sometimes it is thought provoking and out of left field. Most of the time all he is doing is picking a particular line of thought and taking it to the extreme (ie bruce is not elite becomes bruce should be dropped and sacked blah blah blah). In repsonse, the same 10 posters carry on like they think they can change his mind. Y_M then slags them off, usually in a reasonably restrained sort of way, adn then watches as other posters go crazy at him.

If they don't like him the easiest thing to do is ignore him. his posts are not hurting you in anyway. These posters have decided that they don't like anything he writes anyway, so its not like they are going to miss anything by not reading him. Trying to tell Y_M he is wrong, is like trying to put out a fire with petrol.

Let him have his fun, let him make his over the top exagerated posts, take a few moment to consider if what he is saying has some merit (ie if you strip it back was bruce genuinely out of form and getting picked because of who is was? do we truely deserve more saturday games?) post a civil reply, then politely ignore him. All anyone does by arguing is start stupid waste of space flame wars that no one will ever win except for Y_M, because he isnt going away.

Also, I would rather read Y_M's tripe than the tripe of all the posters who come on here and argue and carry on but all the while dont no the first thing about footy. At least Y_M doesnt suggest we should get Ray, or Briss or Gardiner. At least he doesnt claim we should have kept Ferguson, or that we should keep Carroll, or that we could trade White for a 2nd round pick. Y_M is, if nothing else, entertaining, and at least you know that most likely, even though he will deny it, is taking the [censored].

Using Realists material now?

Christ, you are struggling.

And I am pretty sure they dont sell country memberships to people that live 10 minutes from tje CBD.

Nice try though.

look to be honest, i was trying to think of a comeback and thats as much as i could think of

i dislike comments like that from realist as much as you do

look to be honest, i was trying to think of a comeback and thats as much as i could think of

i dislike realist as much as you do

Fair enough.

I think youre a good poster, and you arent a [censored] like Realist.

Just remember that country members are an important part of the club fabric. Their money counts as well, and there are plenty of Demon fans in regional Victoria.

We've all become so obsessed with the financial aspects of the draw.

Heaven forbid we actually win any games.

We've all become so obsessed with the financial aspects of the draw.

Heaven forbid we actually win any games.

Exactly.

If we are still in the Finals hunt in Round 17, we then have our last 5 games in Melbourne.

Yes we shiould cop it sweet.

Are you suggesting we would win more games if they were played 24 hours earlier?

Our draw is good.

For starters, the last 5 games are in Melbourne.

When was the last time that happened?

Up until now I haven't commented on the draw at all. I just find your comments laughable that we should just accept what the AFL have dumped on us given your past comments.

You are right that we should not accept mediocrity and a good starting point for the club to change this is to strongly express publicly that we are very unhappy with the draw. The club should go as far as to say that if the AFL are genuinely committed to growing the competition to 18 teams and supporting the current 16 teams then:

1. They should make allowances for struggling clubs. Giving us more Saturday afternoon games is not going to affect TV ratings. The key timeslots are Friday night, Saturday night and Sunday twilight.

2. The club should make reference to how the AFL seemed to have changed the rules on this given Carltons and Essendons recent past.

3. The club should publicly state that if we are to attract a quality sponsor and lure the corporates then our best chance of doing this (outside Friday night games) is to give us Saturday afternoons.

But the AFL kick us in the arse and think that those lame mugs over at Melbourne will whinge a little but they are most likely to rollover on this issue. They don't dare try that with Essendon, Collingwood or Carlton as they will give the AFL a very public hard time over this so better to pick on Melbourne - they will accept mediocrity.

So back to the reason for my post in the first place. We shouldn't accept mediocrity and yet again we are and you Y_M who have strongly advocated this is now willing to accept it all!

Because while the AFL is a business it also also a sporting competition that is supposed to be even for all clubs (ie salary cap, draft etc). The league is making record profits. It has 10's of millions of dollars lying around spare to invest in markets that are not interested in footy. It throws money at unimportant long term goals.

BUT the primary role of any league or association is to administer the game for the clubs. The AFL has forgotten that the best interests of the clubs is their primary function. Yes sometimes a league has to make hard calls that the clubs dont like, but not every time. I understand the league is trying to make more money. But can you explain why? The sport of football should be more important than making an extra million or two. If the sport was floundering around and on the brink, then yes, money would be more important, but the league is flying, and in that case it is the leagues responsibility to look after the current clubs AND create a fair and equitable system for all involved (be that draw or otherwise).

I agree they SHOULD look after the clubs, but at the same time I don't blame them not doing so if there's no real invested interest in them.

The fact of the matter is that with so many teams in Victoria they could, in all probability, afford to lose a couple. imo what's saved you so far is that you've got the name "Melbourne".

The Roos were lucky to avoid being shuffled to the Gold Coast which means the league has to spend more money on the 2 new franchises (which is essentially what clubs are becoming).

The nature of humans always suggests that the most successful clubs have the most followers so right now the onus is upon the Dees to step up to the plate on the field and become successful.

Exactly.

If we are still in the Finals hunt in Round 17, we then have our last 5 games in Melbourne.

Yes! Good call. Finals with 5 rounds to go is very good.

"Deserve" in the heading is not right.

supposed to be a competition

Daniher spent his whole tenure whinging about our disadvantages due to the lack of a 'level playing field'. It fell on deaf ears and we are much worse off now. I don't know how anyone, let alone a supposed MFC supporter, could argue that it is fair or 'what we deserve'. What is the point of trying to compete when everything is just stacked against from the Sundays, the interstates, to the lack of funds for the footy department, to the low, minority crowds and poor memberships, to training at Casey to our inability to recruit elite players? It's like trying to beat someone on Halo XBOX and you've got an Atari.

supposed to be a competition

Daniher spent his whole tenure whinging about our disadvantages due to the lack of a 'level playing field'. It fell on deaf ears and we are much worse off now. I don't know how anyone, let alone a supposed MFC supporter, could argue that it is fair or 'what we deserve'. What is the point of trying to compete when everything is just stacked against from the Sundays, the interstates, to the lack of funds for the footy department, to the low, minority crowds and poor memberships, to training at Casey to our inability to recruit elite players? It's like trying to beat someone on Halo XBOX and you've got an Atari.

Good point. Although I would of said the Commodore 64...

YM...I have a bridge to sell you...harbour views...historic...great location...

You have really fallen for the three card trick on this one. MFC consistently played finals...and was consistently despatched to Sundays...

And to interstate trips on round 22 on the eve of finals.

This matter of a deserving draw is just the latest AFL invention. The only thing you can rely on is that whatever they are saying to justify their actions is just the latest twist or turn that might fit the circumstances if people don't look too closely.

We should not disucss the draw in their terms because they are liars. Let's have no more about what teams deserve because of their results - it's a competition and it's not supposed to be stacked. The AFL is supposed to administer the game for its own health. They just don't get it.

It's like trying to beat someone on Halo XBOX and you've got an Atari.

Give me an Atari or C64 any day. XBox . . . piece of crap.

Think about the alternative:

Instead of having 2 Saturday home games and 7 Sunday home games at the MCG we have 7 Saturday and 2 Sundays, would the crowds be any bigger if we're going poorly? The answer is no, as MFC fans do not turn up when we're having a crap season.

I can understand Channel 7 and the AFL motives of avoiding Melbourne on Friday nights. We play a crap brand of footy, have no superstars, and were involved in one of the most lop-sided games (V Geelong) of the decade the last time we played on the big stage.

Infact I think we should count our lucky stars we still get to host the Queens Birthday game which is worth 2 Friday night games.

Good point. Although I would of said the Commodore 64...

Vic 20?

"Instead of having 2 Saturday home games and 7 Sunday home games at the MCG we have 7 Saturday and 2 Sundays, would the crowds be any bigger if we're going poorly? The answer is no, as MFC fans do not turn up when we're having a crap season."

It's not about crowd attendances BPP. It's about corporate revenue. More big spenders spenders dig in for Saturday games than Sundays which still has that day of rest/family day tradition attached.

MFC corporate revenue DOUBLES on Saturdays - that's where we're screwed

"Instead of having 2 Saturday home games and 7 Sunday home games at the MCG we have 7 Saturday and 2 Sundays, would the crowds be any bigger if we're going poorly? The answer is no, as MFC fans do not turn up when we're having a crap season."

It's not about crowd attendances BPP. It's about corporate revenue. More big spenders spenders dig in for Saturday games than Sundays which still has that day of rest/family day tradition attached.

MFC corporate revenue DOUBLES on Saturdays - that's where we're screwed

Didn't we make $1m profits from 2004-2006? As BPP states, when we're winning games the supporters turn up, and the corporates will follow in toe.

Under Gutnick, we tried to make Sunday our day, just like the Kangas did with Friday night. Without having all the facts in front of me, during our good times between 1998-2006, our average home attendances was one of highest out of the Melbourne based clubs. Sunday games didn't seem to be a problem then, other than when we played interstate clubs at the Dome.

Until we start winning games or at least being an entertaining team, the AFL, the media, the corporates, and our supporters will treat us with the contempt we deserve.

Using Realists material now?

Christ, you are struggling.

And I am pretty sure they dont sell country memberships to people that live 10 minutes from tje CBD.

Nice try though.

There is NO WAY I would denigrate our RURAL MEMBERS!!!

The beauty is as an ANKLES CM you have no idea of how the [censored] is being taken out of you!!!!

Some posters can see the REAL meaning

Keep on thinking!!!Good Luck ANKLES CM>

Until we start winning games or at least being an entertaining team, the AFL, the media, the corporates, and our supporters will treat us with the contempt we deserve.

Absolutely right. Putting a stop to turnovers through poor execution and playing an attractive brand would at least start the turnstiles ticking over a bit more.

Absolutely right. Putting a stop to turnovers through poor execution and playing an attractive brand would at least start the turnstiles ticking over a bit more.

This post should be pinned on the walls of Dean Bailey's office!!

Of the 10 Victorian based clubs, here's how we stand for home game crowd attendances between 2000-2008.

We are 5th overall. The clubs below us are St Kilda, Hawthorn, WBulldogs, Geelong, Nth Melb.

2000 4th

2001 4th

2002 6th

2003 7th

2004 5th

2005 3rd

2006 5th

2007 8th

2008 7th

Apart from our bad year in 2003, our attendances have not been too bad. You can see what has happened in the last 2 seasons with crap fixturing by the AFL.

Between crap fixturing and, IMO, our MCG deal, we are financially rooted.

It is interesting that Geelong have been squeezed by skilled stadium capacity, but make massive dollars out of those games.

The MFC need to win more games, & the ones we lose we must show Fight. Until then the crowds & TV Viewers will not care about us at all. So Protesting is a waste of energy although i understand the sentiment. Winners are respected.

I agree they SHOULD look after the clubs, but at the same time I don't blame them not doing so if there's no real invested interest in them.

They are under no obligation to look after the clubs, They should be under an obligation to provide a fair competition.

The fact of the matter is, there is not a single valid reason why the AFL cannot provide an even draw with equal allocation of games over the weekend. The AFL have still not been asked why they are unable to do so.

If you're willing to accept that the MFC deserve games on Sunday because we fail to entertain, then you're also willing to accept the termination of the club. If so, then please [censored] off, now.