Dappa Dan said:

If that's true, then the more important thing will be whether DB can smack the attitude out of him. It's no good if he goes from Sheedy who liked him, to Knights who didn't, and then to DB who is a no-nonsense kind of coach. I get the feeling that if Dean sees him as Kinights does, we'll pass on him before the draft even begins. Good point though.

The days of coaches smacking the attitude out of him went the same way as the drop kick in AFL. The only person who change or address the attitude issue is Hislop. Despite numerous AFL and club suspensions and penalties the penny has not dropped. For some players it never does.

That's why recruiters place some stock in a person's character along with physical, athletic and football ability. Its also why Michael Gardiner and Travis Johnson, No 1 picks from years ago would struggle to get in the Top 10 today. Poor or bad character nullifies and destroys the fruits of natural ability.

We re-signed Juice for another couple of years, that's enough of a full time project for the Footy Dept to work on without young Tom. (and I'm not suggesting they have similar problems beyond the very broad brush of 'attitude') It'll be interesting to see where Newton and Hislop are in two years time.

  Ron Burgundy said:

What's this talk about a knife fight?! ...

Great work, Ron! I think he stabbed some guy with a trident!

This looks like a job for Superman Wayne Oswald

Of course, he'd have to get here first.

  Hannabal said:

I've never closely watched him play, so I'm not in a position to comment. It's pretty obvious that our club will seriously consider a supposedly talented hard at it 20 year old with two years development in an AFL system.

Fwiw, Tim Watson intimated on SEN this morning that the reason he was delisted was off field disciplinary reasons.

But Sleeve has already put us straight on that one.

Once a flea, always a flea.

How's your MFC saviour Clayton Collard doing now, Flea.

  Sleeve said:

Once a flea, always a flea.

How's your MFC saviour Clayton Collard doing now, Flea.

I suppose the cyber stalking childish pm's like last time are next ?

Nighty night

True transcript of conversation which occurred just after the knife fight ...

Tom Hislop: Boy, that escalated quickly... I mean, that really got out of hand fast.

Hislop's angry bogon mate (Alan Didak): It jumped up a notch.

Tom Hislop: It did, didn't it?

Alan Didak: Yeah, I stabbed a man in the heart.

Tom Hislop: I saw that. Alan killed a guy. Did you throw a trident?

Alan Didak: Yeah, there were horses, and a man on fire, and I killed a guy with a trident.

Tom Hislop: Alan, I've been meaning to talk to you about that. You should find yourself a safehouse or a relative close by. Lay low for a while, because you're probably wanted for murder.

  Rhino Richards said:

The days of coaches smacking the attitude out of him went the same way as the drop kick in AFL. The only person who change or address the attitude issue is Hislop. Despite numerous AFL and club suspensions and penalties the penny has not dropped. For some players it never does.

That's why recruiters place some stock in a person's character along with physical, athletic and football ability. Its also why Michael Gardiner and Travis Johnson, No 1 picks from years ago would struggle to get in the Top 10 today. Poor or bad character nullifies and destroys the fruits of natural ability.

You make it sound as though a bad attitude is incurable. And your last comment is utter b#llshit. If you were at Hawthorn, the likes of Hodge, Lewis and Franklin would have been turfed out of the club long ago.

And how does a recruiter assess the character of a 17yo draftee, who's more than likely just finished school, and hasn't been exposed to the pitfalls of being an AFL footballer? Gardiner and Johnstone would still be rated just as highly because recruiters aren't psychic, and can't predict how a person will turn out. They recruit based on talent, not on who will be the next Mother Theresa.

they do extensive background research into the character of a player. they have been known not only to talk to parents and coaches, but employers, school teachers, family friends, acquaintances, other students at the school. on top of that they clearly interview the player, and it wouldnt surprise me if they put them through some sort of psych test before drafting. i have read that buddy was off the page (disclaimer cant remember where and may be not true).

dont use hawthorn as too great an example, because we know how good WC was a couple of years ago before off field culture ripped the guts out of the club. yes i would love the success even if it meant finishing second last 2 years later, but there is no guarantee you get the glory before it goes pear shaped.

  Hannabal said:

I suppose the cyber stalking childish pm's like last time are next ?

Nighty night

The one's where you offer me down to Mr Sparkles for a nice polishing job?

I only sent you a pm because if I had of posted it here it would have been deleted, I loved your comebacks though Mr Internet Hardman, Flea.

  Sleeve said:

I only sent you a pm because if I had of posted it here it would have been deleted

What, all 20 of them ?

You seem a bit edgy, but then I remember it's mating season down there.

Who said you can't put lipstick on a pig.

(yeah, yeah, flea, Mr Sparkles, etc.- good one Einstein)

  mo64 said:

You make it sound as though a bad attitude is incurable. And your last comment is utter b#llshit. If you were at Hawthorn, the likes of Hodge, Lewis and Franklin would have been turfed out of the club long ago.

Wrong Mo. The correction of a bad attitude and other problems is ultimately up to the individual not smacked out of them by a thid party.

The likes of Carey, Cousins, Warne and lesser sporter lights like Angwin and Gardiner are evidence of the corrosive nature of bad character on natural ability. Its operates over a period of time. Hodge, Franklin and Lewis may all well bring themselves down. Its early days.

  mo64 said:

And how does a recruiter assess the character of a 17yo draftee, who's more than likely just finished school, and hasn't been exposed to the pitfalls of being an AFL footballer? Gardiner and Johnstone would still be rated just as highly because recruiters aren't psychic, and can't predict how a person will turn out. They recruit based on talent, not on who will be the next Mother Theresa.

When drafted, Johnstone was a gifted but known lazy and indifferent trainer and it you do not have to a psychiatrist to determine TJ is a very simple and basic soul. Gardiner had a history of disruptive behaviour during his youth and was pending potential serious police charges over a matter arising prior to the National Draft. Its not a matter of being psychic. Today, recruiters recruit based on the talent and their assessment for the individual to be able to deliver on that talent. The process of recruiting has become far more intensive and involved these days and much more banks on Clubs getting it right.

  mo64 said:

You make it sound as though a bad attitude is incurable. And your last comment is utter b#llshit. If you were at Hawthorn, the likes of Hodge, Lewis and Franklin would have been turfed out of the club long ago.

And how does a recruiter assess the character of a 17yo draftee, who's more than likely just finished school, and hasn't been exposed to the pitfalls of being an AFL footballer? Gardiner and Johnstone would still be rated just as highly because recruiters aren't psychic, and can't predict how a person will turn out. They recruit based on talent, not on who will be the next Mother Theresa.

Hodge, Lewis and Franklin all turn up to training on time and put in - Hislop was missing training sessions.

There's a pretty big gap between being a "party boy" and missing training, turning up under the weather etc

Also, it wouldn't be too hard to assess a persons character - after all, the recruiters are paid to judge both that and the kids ability so you'd think they'd have some idea

  Hannabal said:

What, all 20 of them ?

You seem a bit edgy, but then I remember it's mating season down there.

Who said you can't put lipstick on a pig.

(yeah, yeah, flea, Mr Sparkles, etc.- good one Einstein)

Clearly not you, married one did we?

Haha mating season..... I'm only 10 minutes from you now H.......

You've become boring..... Flea.

  deanox said:

they do extensive background research into the character of a player. they have been known not only to talk to parents and coaches, but employers, school teachers, family friends, acquaintances, other students at the school. on top of that they clearly interview the player, and it wouldnt surprise me if they put them through some sort of psych test before drafting. i have read that buddy was off the page (disclaimer cant remember where and may be not true).

dont use hawthorn as too great an example, because we know how good WC was a couple of years ago before off field culture ripped the guts out of the club. yes i would love the success even if it meant finishing second last 2 years later, but there is no guarantee you get the glory before it goes pear shaped.

They can do all the research they like, but it doesn't factor in that people can change once they start earning a big salary and are involved in elite sport. And do you really believe that a person connected to a draftee will hinder the kid's chances of getting drafted by portraying him as a ratbag?

And there is absolutely no guarantee of getting the ultimate glory by drafting model citizens of lesser ability.

Stop the presses! Delisted player has problems.

He'd have to be a monty for the Saints with Cousins and Carroll.

  mo64 said:

They can do all the research they like, but it doesn't factor in that people can change once they start earning a big salary and are involved in elite sport. And do you really believe that a person connected to a draftee will hinder the kid's chances of getting drafted by portraying him as a ratbag?

And there is absolutely no guarantee of getting the ultimate glory by drafting model citizens of lesser ability.

Recruiting is the case of making a judgement at point of time based on your assessment of a number of factors that are given a prioritorial ranking of importance. When you are recruiting there is no guarantee or clear knowledge in the future that either the assessed talent or character of the player will come to the fore. It does not mean you dont consider the person where they are at.

And in developing an understanding of player you may indeed speak with their parents, their previous football and sporting coaches and possible their school leaders. Its not about whether the player is a ratbag but developing and confirming the type of person they are.

Its got nothing to do with model citizens of lesser ability. Its about understanding what makes a young player the person he is.

  mo64 said:

They can do all the research they like, but it doesn't factor in that people can change once they start earning a big salary and are involved in elite sport. And do you really believe that a person connected to a draftee will hinder the kid's chances of getting drafted by portraying him as a ratbag?

And there is absolutely no guarantee of getting the ultimate glory by drafting model citizens of lesser ability.

You are obviously very limited in life and world experience. the same thing happens every day, every time you apply for a job. They ask themselves how will this person fit in? They ask behavioural question in an attempt to work out what type of behaviour that person will exhibit. AFL is no different.

and yes i do believe that people would say things that would infer that someone isnt perfect. they wont come out and say 'this guy is an [censored]', but comments like 'he likes to do his own thing' or 'he mucks around a bit in class- bt nothing major' are dead giveaways, and you can be sure that people say lines like that. if a person is an ass, people wont paint them as a saint, they'll just paint them as less of an ass.

  deanox said:

You are obviously very limited in life and world experience. the same thing happens every day, every time you apply for a job. They ask themselves how will this person fit in? They ask behavioural question in an attempt to work out what type of behaviour that person will exhibit. AFL is no different.

and yes i do believe that people would say things that would infer that someone isnt perfect. they wont come out and say 'this guy is an [censored]', but comments like 'he likes to do his own thing' or 'he mucks around a bit in class- bt nothing major' are dead giveaways, and you can be sure that people say lines like that. if a person is an ass, people wont paint them as a saint, they'll just paint them as less of an ass.

If you believe that the world of elite sport is the same as a day to day job, you have no idea of life and world experience. The level of talent is the prime criteria when drafting a sportsman, if recruiters and football depts. think differently, they are second guessing themselves. Do you draft an introvert over an extrovert even though he has lesser talent, just because you're worried how the extrovert might turn out down the track?

And don't pretend to know what I've done in my life you condescending prat. I've hired hundreds of people in my various occupations, and behavioural questions differ in relevancy according to the occupation and the age of the applicant. And I know to treat reference checks with a grain of salt.

  mo64 said:

If you believe that the world of elite sport is the same as a day to day job, you have no idea of life and world experience. The level of talent is the prime criteria when drafting a sportsman, if recruiters and football depts. think differently, they are second guessing themselves. Do you draft an introvert over an extrovert even though he has lesser talent, just because you're worried how the extrovert might turn out down the track?

And don't pretend to know what I've done in my life you condescending prat. I've hired hundreds of people in my various occupations, and behavioural questions differ in relevancy according to the occupation and the age of the applicant. And I know to treat reference checks with a grain of salt.

Talent is a major but not sole criteria. More emphasis is being out on character. Its not a matter of choosing talent vs character. And whether a player is an introvert or extrovert is not one of the criteria. Introversion/ Extroversion is not a basis to assess and grade character. Its a matter of picking the best talented individual that you believe has all the tools to succeed as an AFL footballer. I guess the test is if you had two players of similar talent, one demonstrated the maturity and endeavour that you believe is required, the other one having a record of poor discipline, little focus and an immature attitude, which one would you take? Its a no brainer.

For someone who boasts such hiring experience and knowledge then you should realise what goes into recruiting top talent but dont demonstrate it. Its more than round pegs in square holes. And I would not call a face to face meetings with a number of people involved in a player's development reference checks. Its a silly reference.

The level of research that goes into recruting league footballers is far in excess what is done in many forms of business.

A slow injury prone nutter.

NEXT

The club said they would go for an untried youngster ahead of a reject in the PSD anyway.

My mind keeps coming back to Hislop. There is little doubt that an amount of risk is involved in recruiting him, but isn't there with every player?

If we lose Carroll, and we gain an extra spot on our list, I can't help but think that this kid (20) is going to want to make the best of a second chance.

There is not a single person who can doubt that we need some toughness in the middle.

The only way we are going to rise is if we draft people who want to play footy and the fright of being unceremoniously given the boot might ignite his hunger to simply do so.

At the very least, as we draw closer to the PSD, he is worth further consideration.

  the fork said:

My mind keeps coming back to Hislop. There is little doubt that an amount of risk is involved in recruiting him, but isn't there with every player?

If we lose Carroll, and we gain an extra spot on our list, I can't help but think that this kid (20) is going to want to make the best of a second chance.

There is not a single person who can doubt that we need some toughness in the middle.

The only way we are going to rise is if we draft people who want to play footy and the fright of being unceremoniously given the boot might ignite his hunger to simply do so.

At the very least, as we draw closer to the PSD, he is worth further consideration.

I think you're right, we just have to hope he doesn't nominate & get picked up in the ND because he's not worth one of those picks.

  TheShaft said:

I think you're right, we just have to hope he doesn't nominate & get picked up in the ND because he's not worth one of those picks.

Disagree.

Take him at pick 51 in the ND if the MFC are confident Hislop has a future. We already have picks 1, 17, 19 and 35 for the 18 year olds.

  the fork said:

My mind keeps coming back to Hislop. There is little doubt that an amount of risk is involved in recruiting him, but isn't there with every player?

If we lose Carroll, and we gain an extra spot on our list, I can't help but think that this kid (20) is going to want to make the best of a second chance.

There are varying degrees of risk. Hislop has fundamental character and attitude issues at the bottom end of AFL population. And if we worked hard to get rid of Carroll, then I am not sure we would take on another culture problem. In addition, he has a number of fitness/injury concerns

  the fork said:

There is not a single person who can doubt that we need some toughness in the middle.

The only way we are going to rise is if we draft people who want to play footy and the fright of being unceremoniously given the boot might ignite his hunger to simply do so.

At the very least, as we draw closer to the PSD, he is worth further consideration.

I am sure the Club will do the sums on Hislop but I dont see a lot of other Clubs vying for him. Chris Johnson seems to be drawing more interest.

And there is no surety that Hislop has the strength of character and mind to focus on AFL after a series of really immature and stupid behaviours.