Sandy at Werribee

[Dalrot 85]

How was Jeff White's debut for Sandy?

I heard from a very biased North supporter that he was towelled up by Todd Goldstein so make of that what you want.

[w00dy 146]

I heard from a very biased North supporter that he was towelled up by Todd Goldstein so make of that what you want.

posted by Casey Radio on Bigfooty...

I dont know who does the best on ground

Cale Morton was easily Melbourne's best Sandringham player.. Kicked a ripper snap from 40m out!!

Yze?? Were Sandy that bad??

Netwon looked good in the air but managed just 2.5

Frawley looked uneasy at times in defence..

White's form was patchy and was beaten by Goldstein.

Bell was physical but lack any substance

Messen shouldnt be playing at this level. 50m penalty late cost Sandy the match!!

McNarmara seems to be improving

Weetra reported for tripping in the ressies

Carroll looked better suited in the hairdressing salon then at full back

great to read Cale had a great game... also good to see Juice have 7 shots on goal... interesting that White was beaten in the ruck, and good to hear Tmac is coming along...

[WonnaJurah 5]

who is the chisholm playing for weribee? not scott is it?

[deestroy08 0]

Ha! Meesen is really shaping up to be a big fat waste.

Pretty lame comment about Carroll as I'm no further as to understanding what he did wrong/right??

As for Newton, there is nobody that deserves to be dropped from our forward line after today's game. It's looking the goods ATM. And a few good games do not make a good player. Make him really fight for a spot.

[deanox 8,876]

let newton have 7 shots on goal 3 weeks in a row before he is considered. miller, bate and sylvia did the job today and im not sure if there is a spot for him up there just yet...

[Minka Beaver 0]

let newton have 7 shots on goal 3 weeks in a row before he is considered. miller, bate and sylvia did the job today and im not sure if there is a spot for him up there just yet...

Hi guys, I posted this in regards to a query about Michael Newton, but here was my take on the Zebras performance:

He led out strongly and kicked 2.3, but two of the three misses were set-shots from in front. One miss during the third term came at a critical time when his side were on a role and could have brought the margin back to (from memory) one point.

Juice had two opponents during the course of the game, Scott Thompson (a North Melbourne listed player), and James Saker.

Interestingly he led wide even with Nick Sautner pushing high up the ground (very unusual tactic - Sautner almost always plays close to the goalsquare).

One mark that Juice took early in the third term was impressive. Rarely for him today he was caught behind in a marking contest, but superior strength and reach meant that on this occasion he kept his ground to out-body Thompson.

As for Sandy - they lacked a game plan, were beaten at the stoppages and couldn't get anyone to fill the space at full-forward when Newton and Sautner were trying to lead into the pockets/up the ground. White was beaten in ruck in the first half by Todd Goldstein, but was better after half-time.

Yze (29 possessions) was good, but responsible for chasing touches i felt at times. Still one of the best though for Sandy. Carroll (18 possessions) was OK, but his decision making was iffy. Strangely, Frawley seemed to spend more time than Chopper on James Podsiadly. Even at the slower, lower level his skills rebounding from defence cause concern. Bell (23 possessions) was honest and encouragingly didn't make any noticeable clangers.

I don't know who the Zebras named as their best, but I reckon Morton would've gone close with 33 touches and a wonderful goal. He kicked Sandy's first with the breeze early in the 2nd term off one step, with a hook around the body from just over 50m out. Extraordinary kick. The drop to the VFL has been good for him - his ability and the slower pace mean that he's backing himself and pulling off some very good passes.

Nine changes (many MFC enforced) meant that the Zebs lacked structure. This was the first time that they've lost three in a row since 2002, and it looks as if we could have an increasingly messy divorce on our hands.

Just a pity I had to cover this game and couldn't be at the MCG - that's both wins I've missed this year!

[Beach Road Bazza 0]

Thanks for the report Minka. There are some very interesting observations there and I get your drift about the possibility of what you say could be "an increasingly messy divorce".

I doubt however, that any of the messiness can be attached to the inclusion of Melbourne players. This has been part and parcel of the process between the clubs throughout nine mostly successful seasons. Below this post I have put the team lists for the seniors and the reserves and highlighted the MFC players in each of them. My point is that the Melbourne inclusions were all natural selections being Bell (out injured last week), Carroll (out suspended last week), Frawley (dropped from MFC), Newton and Petterd (up from the reserves after at least 2 games there) and Jeff White (dropped from MFC). I doubt anyone could say their inclusions were detrimental to the team. Out of the side from a MFC POV were Martin (to MFC), Cheney & Maric who went to the reserves. I would maintain that the latter two players (who both played poorly against Port the week before) could have been kept in the side and would have been better than some of the Sandy listed players who came up from the twos.

When the combination was successful, there were usually 8 to 10 good quality Sandy players and they were augmented by 12 - 14 MFC players (12 in finals and against stand alones). This year, Sandy is trying out a lot of good young players with promise but they are not firing as well as the Sandy listed players of the past. Chad Liddell and Ezra Poyas haven't shown their form of the past and David Gallagher has been injured all year. As you can see from the list below, he made his comeback in the reserves yesterday.

Sandringham Seniors 29/6/2008

Daniel Bell

Andrew Biddlecombe

Nathan Carroll

Roderick Crowe

Thomas Dean

James Frawley

Rennie Gilchrist

Chris Lamb

Chad Liddell

Andrew McConnell

Tom McNamara

John Meesen

Cale Morton

Michael Newton

Ricky Petterd

Ezra Poyas

Nicholas Sautner

Peter Summers

Shane Tregear

Jeff White

Jake Williams

Adem Yze

Sandringham Reserves 29/6/2008

Kyle Cheney

Stuart Cleeve

Michael Curcio

Andrew Fleming

David Gallagher

Daniel Gribbin

Jack Grimes

Maddison Hardiman

Marc Johnston

Tomi Johnston

James Kondarovskis

Scott Lockwood

Nicholas Lyall

Guy Martyn

Addam Maric

Sam Monaghan

Jarrod Plymin

Daniel Sargent

Hiwad Shakaib

Jake Spencer

Isaac Weetra

[dazzledavey36 49,576]

wheres trent zomer? intresting maric didn't even kick a goal in te 2s

[Rogue 585]

Just a pity I had to cover this game and couldn't be at the MCG - that's both wins I've missed this year!

Bad luck!

Thanks for the report, though.

[Paul Gardner 6]

....!

Minka, just 2 questions. 1/ How did Grimes go? 2/ Why does it seem to be getting messy (devorce)?

[DemonDave 1,078]

How did Gags go in his first game back after his knee injury in the twos? And Barry do you know how far off Danny Hughes is from resuming also?

Thanks for the reports guys!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Thanks Barry and Minka for your insights.

Any thoughts on McNamara and Meesen?

[H_T 2,941]

Great to see Newton get almost BOG against Werribee at Chirnside Park (bartercard Oval), despite reports, White wasn't that influential. Just had an ok game without dominating. Yze played ok, might be considered. I think White will be left at Sandy again for the next game. Newton will probably have another hitout in the VFL before being considered.

[H_T 2,941]

great to see newton in the best, hopefully he gets his shot at the seniors soon and frwaley

The list is developing..... Frawley, McNamara down back with Petterd for Sandy. Good to see. Newton very handy the soreness is starting to go. Could be back in Seniors in a couple of weeks.

[Beach Road Bazza 0]

how'd Grimey go????

I wasn't there for the Ressies because the Kingswood was particularly uncooperative yesterday morning. However, the reports are that Jack Grimes looked very good. He came on and off the ground due to his lack of match fitness but from all reports from some very harsh judges is that he looked a class above the other guys out there.

I will also post this on a thread specifically relating to Jack Grimes.

[Minka Beaver 0]

Thanks for the report Minka. There are some very interesting observations there and I get your drift about the possibility of what you say could be "an increasingly messy divorce".

I doubt however, that any of the messiness can be attached to the inclusion of Melbourne players. This has been part and parcel of the process between the clubs throughout nine mostly successful seasons. Below this post I have put the team lists for the seniors and the reserves and highlighted the MFC players in each of them. My point is that the Melbourne inclusions were all natural selections being Bell (out injured last week), Carroll (out suspended last week), Frawley (dropped from MFC), Newton and Petterd (up from the reserves after at least 2 games there) and Jeff White (dropped from MFC). I doubt anyone could say their inclusions were detrimental to the team. Out of the side from a MFC POV were Martin (to MFC), Cheney & Maric who went to the reserves. I would maintain that the latter two players (who both played poorly against Port the week before) could have been kept in the side and would have been better than some of the Sandy listed players who came up from the twos.

When the combination was successful, there were usually 8 to 10 good quality Sandy players and they were augmented by 12 - 14 MFC players (12 in finals and against stand alones). This year, Sandy is trying out a lot of good young players with promise but they are not firing as well as the Sandy listed players of the past. Chad Liddell and Ezra Poyas haven't shown their form of the past and David Gallagher has been injured all year. As you can see from the list below, he made his comeback in the reserves yesterday.

I think some of it has to do with the inclusion of MFC players. Of the nine players coming into the side yesterday, six were MFC listed, three of whom are clearly fighting for their footy careers. It showed up with a bit of kick-chasy by the Zebras during the opening term, when their indirectness and slowness in transition was in obvious and negative contrast with the direct, team-orientated performance shown by Werribee (who only fielded two fewer AFL listed players - 10 to 8).

For so long successful with the addition of MFC players in finals, that performance against North Ballarat in the 2007 semi-final was appalling. From what I've seen, Sandringham have never been quite the same since, admittedly allowing for the loss at various stages this season of Sautner, Poyas, Liddell and Gallagher (who made his return through the reserves yesterday).

I don't think there's all that much sinister about it, just that it seems a little more than coincidence that Sandringham's worst form for six years has come in the weeks since the alignment with St Kilda was revealed. The players are obviously trying, but the side's confidence looks shot and they are terrible at the stoppages and at kick-ins.

Taking off my Melbourne hat and replacing it with that of a VFL observer, I think the reminder of this season and next year will be fascinating viewing to see how the Zebras respond to this lull.

[Minka Beaver 0]

Just to add, the final term and after match interviews can be found at vflfooty.com

(Don't worry about the nuff-nuffs commentating, they can be turned down or abused on here ;p)

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

...

Taking off my Melbourne hat and replacing it with that of a VFL observer, I think the reminder of this season and next year will be fascinating viewing to see how the Zebras respond to this lull.

Astute observations Minka.

Sandy are coming off a magnificent golden run on the backs of Sandy players like Poyas, Gallagher, Liddell, Sautner, Lamb. They have been blessed with a regular supply of MFC players who could dominate at VFL level but could not make it at AFL level. Up until the last 12 months, Sandy seemed on a roll. But it comes to halt and there will be a challenge in the post MFC era to foster the generic talent while supplemented from sub AFL talent from St Kilda.

[Minka Beaver 0]

Astute observations Minka.

Sandy are coming off a magnificent golden run on the backs of Sandy players like Poyas, Gallagher, Liddell, Sautner, Lamb. They have been blessed with a regular supply of MFC players who could dominate at VFL level but could not make it at AFL level. Up until the last 12 months, Sandy seemed on a roll. But it comes to halt and there will be a challenge in the post MFC era to foster the generic talent while supplemented from sub AFL talent from St Kilda.

Exactly. As Barry so regularly says, it's those VFL listers and 'in-betweeners' on ability that keep them up there - Biddlecombe, Liddell, Poyas, Sautner, Crowe, Summers et al. They've also been served well by a great club atmosphere fostered on winning games of footy. I remember chatting with Chris Lamb a few months ago; was impressed that someone who IMO was treated fairly shabbily in his development by the Demons has stayed on at the club. Rigoni is another who stayed on when he could just as easily have put the cue in the rack.

A few of those VFL listers signed contracts with the Zebras that are rumoured to expire at the end of the season. Will be interesting to see if they stay on for 2009.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Exactly. As Barry so regularly says, it's those VFL listers and 'in-betweeners' on ability that keep them up there - Biddlecombe, Liddell, Poyas, Sautner, Crowe, Summers et al. They've also been served well by a great club atmosphere fostered on winning games of footy. I remember chatting with Chris Lamb a few months ago; was impressed that someone who IMO was treated fairly shabbily in his development by the Demons has stayed on at the club. Rigoni is another who stayed on when he could just as easily have put the cue in the rack.

A few of those VFL listers signed contracts with the Zebras that are rumoured to expire at the end of the season. Will be interesting to see if they stay on for 2009.

The biggest fault of MFC with Lamb is that they held onto him too long. Anyway thats history. The players you talk about were the backbone of the Zebras Club for so long and they have not been given the recognition they deserve. Some of them are at the end of their careers so I would expect a clean out.