On 12/03/2013 at 00:14, titan_uranus said:

Exactly. If you missed a deadline in your job, you'd get punished. It's not on.

Remember, this is a 16-man party. The other 12 got it done. Why didn't these four? Above this kind of thing? Lazy? Dumb? Whatever the answer, it's not good enough, and they deserve to be punished. Dropping them for a Test might actually correct their poor attitudes.

I'm convinced that there are attitude issues in Australian cricket at the moment that are hampering our progress. This probably goes deeper, but even if it doesn't, it's fair and reasonable. Wearing the Baggy Green is a privilege, not a right. These players have forgotten that.

Agree, but the punishment would fit the crime.

If I didn't supply feedback to a conference I attended or have a file finalised in time I'd hear about it no doubt and read the riot act and told to lift my game. But I wouldn't have my pay garnished or sent home for a few days without pay. Clarke says there's more to it and that standards have dropped, but is that this 4 specifically, or is it an overall thing and these 4 are the sacraficial lambs?

Punishment should fit the crime. What would they have done if 9 players on tour hadn't of done it? And what happenens now when there's a serious breach, like a player gets in a scuffle in a nightclub or turns up to a game/training in a hung over state?

As I said, I'm all for punishment and setting standards. but they've gone over the top, you'd expect it in a highschool team, not in the Australian team.

I fully back the coach on this. The Players are more than well paid, for the coach to ask for written feedback on ways to improve by a certain time means that the whole team is switched on at the same time.

The 4 who did not comply did not care enough.

It would only take an hour.

Goodbye...

Either have a good hard look at yourself in the hall of mirrors or never play again.

Arthur & Neeld could swap notes on this issue...

A non-bowling Watson ain't a huge loss anyway.

I see parallels between the Melbourne Football Club and the Australian Cricket team.

Melbourne had a period of success during Danaher’s time (top 8 finishes, grand final appearance in 2000, prelim 2006). In 2006-2008 the core of that side retired or were traded – All Australian players like Neitz, Yze, White, Robertson, and B&F winners like Travis Johnston. The Dee’s weren’t world beaters and the players weren’t as good as the aussie cricket team, but I see this mass retirement of the core of the team to be similar to when Hayden, Langer, Warne, McGrath, Symonds, Martin, Gilchrist retired.

Brad Green & Cam Bruce were like Ricky Ponting, Mike Hussey – a few surviving senior players in an otherwise very young side

The MFC admin of the time were happy to gift games to talented youngsters based on talent alone, and I see that to be what Cricket Australia is doing by playing Hughes, Warner, Doherty, Maxwell etc.

You end up with a situation where senior players get [censored] about the team selections not being based on current form alone & younger players in advertantly believing they dont need to prove anything to get a game

The Melbourne situation spiralled out of control and culminated in a 186 point loss to Geelong at Kardinya Park.

I’m tipping a 5-0 white wash for the aussies in the ashes.

  On 12/03/2013 at 06:43, DemonWA said:

The MFC admin of the time were happy to gift games to talented youngsters based on talent alone, and I see that to be what Cricket Australia is doing by playing Hughes, Warner, Doherty, Maxwell etc.

If we were to draw a parallel to the MFC, then Doherty is James Magner. Available, mature, plays a role, will bust a gut, but ultimately no good. He certainly doesn't belong in the "talented youngster" group at 30.

  On 12/03/2013 at 01:47, Tall Defence said:

Agree, but the punishment would fit the crime.

If I didn't supply feedback to a conference I attended or have a file finalised in time I'd hear about it no doubt and read the riot act and told to lift my game. But I wouldn't have my pay garnished or sent home for a few days without pay. Clarke says there's more to it and that standards have dropped, but is that this 4 specifically, or is it an overall thing and these 4 are the sacraficial lambs?

Punishment should fit the crime. What would they have done if 9 players on tour hadn't of done it? And what happenens now when there's a serious breach, like a player gets in a scuffle in a nightclub or turns up to a game/training in a hung over state?

As I said, I'm all for punishment and setting standards. but they've gone over the top, you'd expect it in a highschool team, not in the Australian team.

After a bit of time sifting through all the 'available' facts, the punishment does seem a little heavy handed. The penalties could have been kept in house and the punishment itself could have been of a more appropriate nature. Fines, early morning 10k runs, extra training sessions and the offenders could have been made to stand up in front of the group with a please explain. And we don't have to hear about it either - there's no need.

To miss a Test match is not like missing a game of footy. It's more like missing 3-4 matches of footy (as a penalty). And there is no guarantee any of them would get automatically picked in the following Test. This is not to excuse the behavior of course, but the punishment seems a bit draconian - unless the issues and behaviors within the team are really bad.

None of us have seen any evidence of really bad behavior. We have heard that there have been 'other' indiscretions - none of these being of a 'serious' nature according to Pat Howard (the C.A high performance manager). It seems the indiscretions are more of an accumulative nature.

The fact is that we're being badly beaten in India. And that comes down to quite a number of factors, none the least being the 'actual' available talent in home/foreign conditions. India have us well covered. We are just not that good and have only one established world class player - Clarke.

As for Micky Arthur, he has a very good record as a coach and maybe the players just haven't adapted to him like they should have. Just one thing though - Arthur did come out and say that Nathan Lyon was lacking 'confidence' after the 1st Test. Not sure he should have been making these comments in public for a few reasons. Again, that sort of thing should be kept in house. As it was, Lyon himself said that he wasn't lacking confidence at all.

Anyway, they've made their decisions and we just have to get on with it. We can now expect all homework to be completed and handed in on time

Edited March 12, 201312 yr by Macca

Seems the English are having a good laugh at our expense ... no wonder we want to beat them so much (although they've had a bit of success against us of late!)

.... Poms gloat as Australian cricket team becomes a 'global laughing stock'

  Quote

England Ashes hero Andrew Flintoff summed up the mood in world cricket, tweeting: "Amazing 4 Aussie players banned for not doing homework , I thought letting them play in the next test would be punishment enough #3-0india."

Lawrence Booth wrote "... the idea of a three-point presentation to solve Australia's woes is cricket's equivalent of rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic." Booth continued: "Australia just ain't that good any more. Coaches are supposed to manage crises, not exacerbate them."

Former Test swing bowler Matthew Hoggard told the BBC he was "baffled" by the "unbelievable" sackings."They have not been out until four in the morning. They have not been jumping off ferries or putting hands through doors.

Where's the spirit in the Australian Cricket team?

  On 12/03/2013 at 09:12, Macca said:

After a bit of time sifting through all the 'available' facts, the punishment does seem a little heavy handed. The penalties could have been kept in house and the punishment itself could have been of a more appropriate nature. Fines, early morning 10k runs, extra training sessions and the offenders could have been made to stand up in front of the group with a please explain. And we don't have to hear about it either - there's no need.

To miss a Test match is not like missing a game of footy. It's more like missing 3-4 matches of footy (as a penalty). And there is no guarantee any of them would get automatically picked in the following Test. This is not to excuse the behavior of course, but the punishment seems a bit draconian - unless the issues and behaviors within the team are really bad.

None of us have seen any evidence of really bad behavior. We have heard that there have been 'other' indiscretions - none of these being of a 'serious' nature according to Pat Howard (the C.A high performance manager). It seems the indiscretions are more of an accumulative nature.

The fact is that we're being badly beaten in India. And that comes down to quite a number of factors, none the least being the 'actual' available talent in home/foreign conditions. India have us well covered. We are just not that good and have only one established world class player - Clarke.

As for Micky Arthur, he has a very good record as a coach and maybe the players just haven't adapted to him like they should have. Just one thing though - Arthur did come out and say that Nathan Lyon was lacking 'confidence' after the 1st Test. Not sure he should have been making these comments in public for a few reasons. Again, that sort of thing should be kept in house. As it was, Lyon himself said that he wasn't lacking confidence at all.

Anyway, they've made their decisions and we just have to get on with it. We can now expect all homework to be completed and handed in on time

Well said Macca. 100% agree with all of the above.

And good to see at least that Pattinson's taken the right approach to the whole thing and is lookign at getting on with everything.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/cricket/michael-clarke-insists-he-and-shane-watson-have-a-good-working-relationship-despite-india-tour-walkout/story-e6frfg8o-1226595856814

Quote

Pattinson said the quartet deserved to be axed. And while Watson is believed to be weighing up his future, Pattinson wants the all-rounder on deck for the Ashes.

"He's a fantastic guy to have around and a fantastic player," Pattinson said.

"Hopefully we can see him back as soon as possible."

Tuesday, 22 January 2013 Are Australia in disarray?

“Mike Hussey is at the centre of a rumour doing the rounds by email, and published in of all places a financial gossip column on Thursday, that he and Michael Clarke had a spectacular falling out after his farewell Test at the SCG.

According to the scuttlebutt, Hussey and Clarke had been split over where post-match celebrations should be held - Mr Cricket wanted them in the dressing room and then the hotel, but the captain preferred a planned evening on James Packer's super yacht Seahorse. Hussey, it was claimed, boycotted the boat ride in protest, having also just been surprisingly left out of the one-day squad. He was joined by two other players, the email said.” This was from Friday’s Sydney Herald.

The following however was sent to TMS Towers this evening by an anonymous source…

“I caught up with my mate (relation of Mike Hussey) and got some pretty interesting info ok, there has been a lot of talk around the attitude of Michael Clarke for years, he is a selfish [censored].

http://www.themiddlestump.com/2013/01/are-australia-in-disarray.html

  On 12/03/2013 at 12:42, H_T said:

Where's the spirit in the Australian Cricket team?

Agree.

Since McGrath & Warne went, the cracks began to show. just individual talent kept us somewhere near the top.

Too much $$$ for meaningless games....There is no structure now in fixtures.

Finish one game start another......Meh of the highest order sadly.

  On 13/03/2013 at 08:50, why you little said:

Too much $$$ for meaningless games....There is no structure now in fixtures.

Finish one game start another......Meh of the highest order sadly.

Well we've got 3 forms of the game and the one that is by far the most lucrative overall is t20. And t20 can offer far more opportunities to make top dollar. There is big big money to be made in the IPL, Big Bash, English, South African, West Indies, New Zealand and even the Bangladesh Leagues. I heard Brad Hodge say a couple of years ago that he was playing in 6 x t20 Leagues. He would no doubt be getting quite well remunerated in all or most of these League's. There's even a League in New York.

People can complain about t20 but it's only going to get more popular in my opinion. I can't see it's progression being curtailed. Many may not 'like' it but it probably won't make a scrap of difference. Already the West Indies Board are struggling to find dates to play Test cricket. A lot of their players are in demand for all the t20 Leagues. It doesn't help that they get paid a pittance to represent the Islands at Test level.

I don't profess to know what the solution is but it's rather difficult to contain something that is becoming widely popular the world over. I much prefer to watch Test cricket but I do find t20 to be quite 'entertaining'. However, my overall view is more an observation on what is actually happening. You've now got a version of the sport that is packaged up into a far more 'convenient' 3 hour time span. With loads of action. It's no surprise to me that it's wildly popular. As I said, I have no idea how the relevant authorities and boards are going to manage it all.

One thing I do know - money talks. Michael Clarke in the last few days made mention of the IPL as if it might be an intrusion or a distraction and I don't doubt him for a minute. However, Clarke himself could be playing in the IPL this season for a figure of $400,000 (for 6 weeks work) Ponting is playing for the same amount - $400,000. M Hussey, Johnson, Watson, Henriques are all signed up on nice deals. Maxwell is getting a cool million - wow !!

Nice work if you can get it Or as Rickie Lee Jones once sang - "Easy Money" !

ps ... The IPL starts in 3 weeks. Other Test players who are involved are Warner, Hughes, Haddin, Harris, Marsh, Smith, Pattinson and Hilfenhaus. Along with Clarke, Maxwell, Watson, Henriques and Johnson, that makes up a fair slice of our available Test players. Normally these players could be expected to 'freshen up' before the Ashes campaign. Not so with the changing face of cricket.

Edited March 13, 201312 yr by Macca

And Macca nobody will remember a 20/20 game or result for more than 3 days.

$$$ does talk and Test Cricket may die.

That is very sad.

Cricket is not a 3 hour game. It has been bastardized by sheer greed.

  On 13/03/2013 at 10:54, why you little said:

And Macca nobody will remember a 20/20 game or result for more than 3 days.

$$$ does talk and Test Cricket may die.

That is very sad.

Cricket is not a 3 hour game. It has been bastardized by sheer greed.

Test cricket won't die. Not in the near future anyway. Who knows 30 or 40 years down the track? T20 may enhance Test cricket much like one-day cricket has (re scoring rates). Young blokes with talent today are going to bat with more and more intent to score quickly. It stands to reason with the riches on offer in t20. What if we regularly started seeing teams score 350 - 400 a day in Test cricket? With wickets falling at regular intervals? That's a good days entertainment ...

Test cricket is still very popular here and in England. South Africa being strong helps the cause but it's India that might hold the key. If they can return to being a strong nation worldwide then that's got to help. The BCCI have got to make it attractive for the public to go to the games. Doesn't help when they often only sell 5 day ticket packages. The crowds in India used to be huge.

It could be that in the future we might end up playing South Africa, India and England in Test cricket over a 3 year cycle instead of a 4 year cycle. In most people's eyes the Ashes is the 'biggie' and it is a big money spinner. As it is, we're playing England home and away over a 6 month period this time around and we're back there again in mid 2015.

I do share your concern a little bit, but what can you do to stop t20? The public love it, the players like playing in it and they get handsomely paid. And the TV networks pay big money for the rights (ESPN paid 900 hundred million dollars for the rights to the IPL for 10 years - that's a lot of money) Ch9 look like getting on board with the Big Bash.

Edit : You've got to wonder about the disciplines, the coaching and how the players generally prepare for games in the IPL and the other Leagues. It may or may not be that professional. If it isn't that 'professional' then there may lie the problem. Clarke and Arthur may want things done a certain way and that way may clash with the other team's professionalism in the other forms of the game.(specifically the t20 team's in the various League's)

Edited March 13, 201312 yr by Macca

Clarke really has moulded a team in his own image.

A bunch of selfish ,whiny little bogans with no ticker when the heat is on at away games.

A front-running ,ultra competitive unit that will crawl over team-mates to get a spot, instead of the opponents.

Under the emerging Clarke we've now seen the exit of Katich ,Andrew Symonds ,Hussler ,Martin and Ponting.(pushed aside/sick of it)

Instead we have fatty Watson ,Hughes and the yes men.

I dont doubt Clarkes ability but he needs a slap over the head.

I wouldn't follow him to the supermarket because he is a nonce.

Fancy being a party to dropping James Pattinson for not doing the homework.

FMD-fancy letting a Zaffer coach the team.

Clean out the ACB and begin with Sutherland.

The admin are rooting what should be a dominant test tem.

Edited March 14, 201312 yr by Biffen

Clarke will bat at 3 tonight/this Test.

  On 13/03/2013 at 22:31, Biffen said:

Clarke really has moulded a team in his own image.

A bunch of selfish ,whiny little bogans with no ticker when the heat is on at away games.

A front-running ,ultra competitive unit that will crawl over team-mates to get a spot, instead of the opponents.

Under the emerging Clarke we've now seen the exit of Katich ,Andrew Symonds ,Hussler ,Martin and Ponting.(pushed aside/sick of it)

Instead we have fatty Watson ,Hughes and the yes men.

I dont doubt Clarkes ability but he needs a slap over the head.

I wouldn't follow him to the supermarket because he is a nonce. LOL

Fancy being a party to dropping James Pattinson for not doing the homework.

FMD-fancy letting a Zaffer coach the team.

Clean out the ACB and begin with Sutherland.

The admin are rooting what should be a dominant test tem.

Admin wouldn't do that Biff... what, make the team in their own image?

I said before, that something smells crook around Tallarook. http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/10595-anyone-for-cricket/page-163#entry705108

and IMO, they got the wrong man. both ways.

Edited March 14, 201312 yr by dee-luded

  On 14/03/2013 at 05:00, dee-luded said:

Admin wouldn't do that Biff... what, make the team in their own image?

I said before, that something smells crook around Tallarook. http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/10595-anyone-for-cricket/page-163#entry705108

and IMO, they got the wrong man. both ways.

Just seems like Clarkey may be an excellent leader by example but with no people skills .

A bit like Brian Lara-although Clarke has more to choose from than Lara did .

  On 14/03/2013 at 05:32, Biffen said:

Just seems like Clarkey may be an excellent leader by example but with no people skills .

A bit like Brian Lara-although Clarke has more to choose from than Lara did .

Yep, maybe, he's too good for himself, & everyone else as well.

If its true, that he dissed Hussey, on Husseys retirement night, for packers boat, then something is Wrong.

  On 14/03/2013 at 09:22, dee-luded said:

Yep, maybe, he's too good for himself, & everyone else as well.

If its true, that he dissed Hussey, on Husseys retirement night, for packers boat, then something is Wrong.

He loves that boat-and the Packers as well.

Sometimes to the detriment of his men.

Very aspirational boy from Cronulla.

Edited March 14, 201312 yr by Biffen

If two teammates went with Hussey, does that mean the other 10 or so went with Clarke?

  On 14/03/2013 at 09:56, 45HG said:

If two teammates went with Hussey, does that mean the other 10 or so went with Clarke?

Yep.

Wasn't Watson & Siddle the two who stayed with Hussey in the changerooms?

Anyway....clearly from Pat Howard's perspective the Captain/Vice Captain relationship isn't plain sailing. And clearly there is a lack of team harmony within the squad, hence a lack of spirit. It's not good, whichever way you cut it.

Perhaps there is a common theme here. Clarke is a wonderful player and tactician IMO. A wonderful leader on the field.

But from the reports of journalists on tour etc, there is a bit of work to be done off the field as well as on. If they want a professionally run outfit and this is line in the sand stuff to prevent the short cuts and "attitude/back chat problems", so be it.

I'm hopeful that Clarke can be as good a leader off the field in the changerooms like his predecessors in Taylor, Waugh, Ponting where they were inclusive of all. The Australian cricket team has traditionally been a team that plays hard and celebrates hard appropriately behind closed doors. Let's hope that continues in a professional manner.

  On 14/03/2013 at 09:30, Biffen said:

He loves that boat-and the Packers as well.

Sometimes to the detriment of his men.

Very aspirational boy from Cronulla.

thats the problem, he's aspirational, rather than inspirational.

self verses support. he's a player, not a skipper. & certainly Not one for rebuilding a team with lost cricketing souls.