Lucifers Hero

I was being facetious. The ANB like attributes listed for Tomlinson made him sound very vanilla. I agree he is much better than all those mentioned.

Thanks for info. I'm just cynical when it comes to Ess and possible shenanigans... btw, is you son likely to register for the NGA draft ? Is so, very proud for the family.

Ask Matty Whelan! Surprisingly, Port and Colllingwood have no-one. Essendon's list is huge with a disproportionate number of anglo sounding names. Don't know enough about the rules re how far back one's heritage can be counted to qualify for NGA. But wouldn't be surprised if they are pushing the boundaries. They may also have their NT scouts 'helping' prospects and their families move into the Ess zone. Time to revisit the zone boundaries!

A very good draftee will certainly get games in 2020 as will other recent draftees. Will he/they be the difference in winning/not winning games in 2020. I don't think so. As I said in earlier post, with what we currently know of list changes, we will be relying on the injury Gods to field a high quality team every week as our depth just isn't very good.

Sounds like ANB who likeTomlinson is also quick and flexible. I hope Tomlinson offers a lot more than an ANB upgrade especially as we are keeping ANB.

Baffled by the Wagner brothers and ANB signings mainly because they are depth; a type of depth we have plenty of. imv depth players for 2020: Can do occasional cameo: Spargo, Jones, O'Mac. Untested at AFL level: Bedford, Jordon, Nietschke, (Rookies: Dunkley, Chandler, Lockhart) Serious injury cloud: AvB, KK, Smith. VFL+ level: ANB, J Wagner, C Wagner Bolded names are a quarter of our Senior list!. Our depth just isn't very good. Even the next tier up has question marks: Hannan (injury recovery), Preuss, Sparrow, Baker, Weideman, Hore Hopefully, some of the youngsters will come good but they are several years off being regular 22. Adding Tomlinson, Langdon and maybe Elliot will certainly help our list. But they are just displacing players that were depth at best and were not bona fide best 22. New draftees won't help much in the short term. Based on the recruits we know so far, we will be relying on the injury Gods to field a high quality team each week in 2020. I just hope the club has some surprise trades yet to be announced.

Chandler, Dunkley and Lockhart are all Rookies. The latter two weren't on AFL list at the start of the season. They showed glimpses and would like to see what a preseason does for them. We have plenty of Rookie spots if we want to add more so keeping them is no issue. Rookies are a long shot at the best of times. Don't know enough about Chandler. Baker has been injured most of the time so too early to delist imv.

A sponsor or Coterie member will find him a spot on a payroll somewhere. If it is a real 'job' spot on a payroll, it doesn't go in the sal cap. It will be enough to make up for not getting a 3rd year.

State of the list: We have 4 senior list spots atm. Frost, Stretch and JKH still uncontracted. That is a potential max of 7 spots available. We are obliged to take at least 3 from the draft. It looks like Langdon and Tomlinson are over the line. That leaves a max of 2 spots. Elliot might be one. Leaving 1 spot. Someone from GWS pick 2 split, perhaps? I still wouldn't be surprised if we trade out a contracted player...

Updated for Walker hanging up the boots and new contracts to: Baker, ANB, J Wagner, C Wagner, Dunkley, J Smith, Lockhart and Chandler. Any corrections please let me know. I will update games played when the full list is completed, post trade/draft. At least half the list OOC in 2020. It will be a very busy time. Importantly, a very uncertain time for a lot of players.

Four: Lewis, Garlett, Maynard plus 1(only 39 senior listed players in 2019 so one 'extra' to fill this year). Plus Threel Rookie spots. Players OOC still uncontracted: Frost, JKH, Stretch and Bradtke (B rookie). Really disappointed for Stretch to see both Wagners and ANB contracted and he has to wait/misses out. Very pleased we have kept Baker, Dunkley, Lockhart and Chandler. Edit: Contract negotiations will be interesting next year as we will have half our list OOC in 2020. 18 Senior Listed players and 4 Rookies. Importantly, a very uncertain time for a lot of players.

buckley-confident-magpies-can-keep-jamie-elliott He sounds very confident. "...I know that with his upbringing and with his personality, he is really drawn to ... kindred spirits or people that feel like family to him and I know that this place feels like family to him". Maybe Buckley is trying to sell Elliot on the virtues of sticking with the blue collar team rather than join the so called 'silvertails that take their RR's to the snow on QB'...

If our 'premiership window' rated as 'Ajar' is for 2020 then fair call. But beyond 2020 it is well and truly open. This year was a big set back. But every reason to think we will improve enough in 2020 to make finals and perhaps win one. So in contention 2021 onward. As to winning one...who knows. Very hard to do.

Surely, Crouch isn't worth anything like pick 2! Maybe Crows are offering their pick #4 back again so GCS just drop down two spots. But trading out pick 2 makes a complete mockery of why they want it - to get Rowell and Anderson as they are best mates and likely to stay together at GCS. I would be furious? if GCS trade out pick 2. We suffer the most: not only do we miss Anderson the Crows trump our position to split pick 2/3. I would rather trade pick 3 to GCS for #2 (and include Stretch if rumours are to be believed) at least then we regain our correct position in the draft. Hoping that story on Crouch is just speculation. GCS just can't be allowed to trade out pick 2! Unless it is back to us.

With Malthouse it was a baseless 'herd mentality' in advance of any of his proteges achieving anything. Few ever would and are no longer senior coaches: Neeld, Sanderson, B. Scott. Buckley may be the exception. Some clubs were silly enough to take the hype and Malthouse's unabashed promotion of those proteges, seriously. With Clarkson the plaudits are coming after his proteges have the runs are on the board. Some will fail eg Bolton but he has a very good batting average. Chalk and cheese situations.

If a 3 year contract at the pies is the issue a simple solution is 2 years + one year option based on playing a certain number of games in year 2. Onus is then on him to stay fit and uninjured. And if we take him, we should do the same: 2+1 option. And make his contract a flat $ plus a $ per games played component. Sensible risk and salary cap management.

I know that defenders don't win Brownlow's but given that Rich won 16 games and Dylan Grimes was one of the few that played nearly every game he would have to poll well. And, not many stars to take votes from him so he would have to be roughy to be on the podium; maybe do a Gus Brayshaw as the Tigers haven't included him to go tonight!

Our attendees: Nathan Jones, Max Gawn, Clayton Oliver, Bayley Fritsch, Jack Viney Fritsch there for MOTY, perhaps? How many more of these would we have seen if he had played forward all year! Would love to see him win it, if that is why he is invited.

That is exactly why some clubs separate the List Management function from the Coach. Coach has input but decisions are made by List Management whose job it is to build a premiership winning list. That is especially so when the coach is inexperienced and desperate for quick success. I'm of the impression that Goodwin calls the shots especially on FA's, trades in and out then recruiting do the best they can with the draft picks that are left. I'll very, very interested in who our List Manager is to replace T.Viney. Hope he has the authority from Pert to take the long view.

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If that is the intended comparison to the Tigers, it is drawing a long bow, imv. I'm also optimistic. Its just that there is little to support that we can copy tigers, roos, crows or anyone else. tbh, at this stage I would settle for a sustained period of making and winning some finals.

I know that - he was one who turned us down.

Every chance that Sam Mitchell and Hodge can be added to that list in a few years. Awesome record. Re Roos thought processes. I've often wondered how we ended up with Goodwin who had minimal coaching experience. In fact just a few years at a dodgy club in turmoil. Goodwin was appointed about a year after Roos. I doubt Roos spent that year idly waiting for him to walk in the front door. There were occasional rumours of potential coaches but we will never know how many we approached who didn't make the grade or who knocked us back. So, was it a Bradbury appointment? I still think Goodwin can be a good coach. Was he the best around at the time? Maybe, just the best we could get. Just noticed another similar thread. @Demonland maybe this thread should be merged with

I love the optimism and hope that goes with comparisons to the Tigers. This is their recent track record: 6 of 7 years in the finals. 2016 was clearly an aberration. The % shows they have always been a high scoring and good defensive side (except 2016), even before they regularly made finals. They made some bold changes at end of 2016, not the least of which was bringing in Balme. The mentoring of Hardwick and the steadying hand he brought to the club shouldn't be underestimated. Other than re-vamping the assistant coaches I see little similarity with our recent past. Can we copy Tigers and go from the bottom of the ladder to premiers or regular PF/GF. Personally I doubt it. Ask again after we have made finals for 3/4 years. Sadly, there is just as much chance that we are a 'flash in the pan' team like Adelaide (GF 2017 after several years of finals), Freo (GF 2015 after several years of finals), Port (PF 2014). But I desperately hope we are not.

^^^ @Maccapost. Sydney, Hawks, Geelong and too a lesser extent Collingwood have been trading top picks for A grade talent for the last decade. Consistently in flag contention as a result. They occasionally take a dip to the bottom of the ladder, get their A+ players but bounce back up again. We on the other hand have been-in-love-with-the-draft for over a decade and only changed when Roos et al boldly split pick #2 which sadly didn't achieve the results we all hoped. Nonetheless, as you have shown it was the right strategy.