Lucifers Hero

Binman, I have never down played the role of preseason surgeries and injuries. I am simply trying to keep claims about particular players ie Tom, factual. Some people here go on about the preseason and neglect to mention other problems or if they do it is lip service. Its never as simple as one issue. So, I'm simply trying to remind people that we have other and perhaps deeper issues. Otherwise why would the club beef up development resources and change the forward coaches mid year?

Agree Bbo, for most of the year he couldn't jump, run or kick and we could all see that something was amiss. My earlier posts were to try and dispel some of the myths around Tom and our preseason woes. So I put his poor form down to some non-injury issues and poor player management as much as injury. Who knows why we kept playing him. Desperation? I don't see his latest knee injury as bad luck. And now he is out for the season.

Thank you. It says Tom but I'm pretty sure they mean Oscar who had hip surgery but is not mentioned in that article. Tom does not appear on the more reliable club or AFL list of surgeries or injury reports whereas Oscar appeared regularly.

I didn't say he was not carrying an injury. I said he did not have preseason surgery, he did not have an interrupted preseason and the preseason is not the cause of his poor form. So I would like people to stop claiming so. I saw poor form for 15 weeks. An injury? Maybe, maybe not. There could be any number of reasons: poor coaching, poor fitness, taking the #1 defender, poor delivery, poor injury management etc If he did have an injury, surely he should not be played continuously for 2 JLT and 15 weeks without resting! If that is the case it is very poor player management and it invites the inevitable - a more significant injury which is what happened: given he had patella soreness before the AFLX and played 17 games without resting is it any surprise he tore his mensicus? People need to look a bit more deeply before putting all our woes down to the 'preseason'.

I don't know how many times I need to write this but Tom McDonald did not have preseason surgery and is not on injury reports. If he had an 'interrupted preseason' I would like someone to present the info. If people are thinking his double ankle surgery, it was the previous year ie prior to his sensational 2018 season. Yes, he was withdrawn from this year's AFLX apparently with patella soreness and there are mixed reports whether he simply had a cortisone injection or a minor procedure to clean it up. Either way he played in both JLT games a week or so later, kicking 2 and 1 goal respecively. So he had a full preseason. His poor form is not related to the preseason issues. And his poor form is one of the major reasons we are where we are. On a more general note, we know about our preseason and depth woes but surely no one still thinks that is the reason we have fallen from 4th to 17th. If it was the club would not have beefed up the development resources nor made the line coaching changes. Preseason surgery has become the escape clause and people say things like "Put it all together and you get what we have now". We have been crap for a variety of reasons and to not acknowledge those other reasons is simply head in sand stuff. Thankfully, the club recognises those other reasons and will fix them.

It isn't just Goodwin talking about 'the preseason'. Listen to the Mahoney and Bartlett interviews of recent weeks. Goodwin's references to 'the preseason' are now less direct eg in this weeks press conf he said something like: the reason (for why we are where we are) is well documented and we are addressing those reasons. That sounds like 'the preseason'/injuries reason. Not too long ago Viney said something about preseason problems 'but they aren't an excuse'. i think these comments are valid but I use them to illustrate the club, as a whole, is still talking 'the preseason'/injuries. I do not think we are exaggerating the preseason/injury problem but it may sound like we are if our senior people keep talking about it. Other clubs in as bad a predicament as us: Richmond (key injuries to top 10 players) and St Kilda (key injuries to top 10 players in the preseason who have barely played this year) haven't been playing 'the preseason' or 'the injury' card. I just think the club as a whole needs to stop talking or referring to 'the preseason' or injuries. Move on. Not all journo's are dumb. They know that 'the preseason/injuries' are only part of the problem. So far they haven't used the blowtorch to dig deeper. It may yet come.

Surprises never cease- both Wagners are in. Bench: Wagner 1, Wagner 2, ANB, Lockhart. That is a terrible, terrible bench. Can't believe Smith isn't in nor is Baker. Bit tough on Dunkley to drop him after just one two games. So much for preparing for 2020 if Baker isn't in. Edit: thanks to @DemonWorshipperfor correction on Dunkley games.

"{Freo}...face the prospect of losing uncontracted midfielder Ed Langdon to a Victorian club – the Demons are leading the race" challenging-times-at-freo

Without counting the games others have had it pretty bad (for long term injury absences ie > 3 weeks): Richmond: Cotchin, Rance, Reiwoldt, Nankervis (ie their spine) missing for most of the season. Houli, Astbury, Vlaustin (most of their backline) out for a fair chunk early in the season. St Kilda: Geary, McCartin, Hannebury, Stevens, Longer, Roberton, Carlisle mostly didn't have a preseason or out most of the year and all but Carlisle are still out. The above players would be in their respective best 10. So not much different to our best 10 absentees of > 3 weeks: May, Lever, Melksham, Jetta, Hannan, Lewis. Collingwood have also had a few significant outs. The difference between those teams and us is they are not bleating about it. I don't agree with Caro that we are exaggerating them but it suits our narrative to use 'preseason/injuries' to answer any questions about poor form. Like us fans, the media know a lot of other things aren't working and so have stopped buying this narrative that the club is trying to sell.

Possibly not enough: “This has probably been a little bit longer than we’d planned as well, but with your feet, we know through Jack Viney and Aaron vandenBerg and a few others … you don’t want to muck around with them too much,” Melksham said. I guess 'a few others' include Trengove and Clarke.

DiO you are a credit to our AFLW team. You regular updating of the DL Women's Forum with VFLW games and happenings reflects a lot of work. Thank you.

Club web article says the team will fly up on Saturday. Isn't that a bit odd? Doesn't leave much time for training on the ground and fulfilling our community obligations.

Good to see Oskar there! Would like to see Baker, Smith, Dunkley and Lockhart on the bench. Which would mean Hannan and ANB are out.

Memberships have dried up since early June (people still had hope before then). Critical to get memberships up for next years fixturing, FTA etc. Not to mention the Jaguar sponsorship expires in a few months. The Pies and Tigers games should be big money earners for us but alas I suspect the pre sales of reserved seats aren't looking too flash so it suggests low crowds- Pies and Tigers aren't interested? Don't blame them tbh. Would say all those things suggest something on the fly. $99 for a one person membership + 1 x 3 guest passes is pretty good value.

Being in Alice we do not have to put up with the 'Boo Stadium' crowd blaring thru our tv sets. Their premiership backline vs our non-existent/inexperienced forward line is a scary proposition?.

Fair points. Looking at the key stats in rnd 23 their performance was way below par which prompted my 'barely turned up' comment. Had they beaten us and finished 5th they may have well faced Geelong in the first semi. Better odds that they would play Sydney in their home state which is what happened. Nonetheless, my point was more about all the ifs and maybes that can go either way that would have enabled us to make the top 4 or position in the 8.

st-kilda-to-consider-asking-afl-for-priority-draft-pick A team that has messed up so many draft picks in recent years, had poor development and paid big bucks to injury prone players doesn't deserve a pp. It is a S-U of their own making.

I think that cuts both ways. If Kennedy and Darling (who went off early in the 1st) had played the rnd 22 game and GWS not shut up shop for rnd 23 (they couldn't make top 4 if they had beaten us so barely turned up) we could easily have lost one or both games and just scraped into the 8. So many ifs and maybes: we just need to accept the season as it was: a roller coaster until round 21 then we had some luck, put our skates on and had a purple patch for a few weeks. It was a great ride but I would like to see more than 2 weeks of good luck and 2 weeks of flying high to be convinced we are a really good club capable of making finals on a regular basis. We have a good side, just not convinced about us being a good club. Both are needed.

@Lord Nevcorrectly read my comments on Viney's tenure as co-captain in the context of prior posts musing on how long we have to have him in the role rather than suggesting that nepotism was at play. Jack was 22 and barely starting his career. We had just had the aftershock of young co-captains (Grimes and Trengove) appointed 'too early'. So yeh, there was some skepticism around the 'captain's call' as too whether JV had earnt it at that stage and that it was delivered as a 'fait acompli' to Jones by Goodwin. The 'fait accompli' suggests that unlike past practice and other club practices Jack wasn't voted in by his peers ie players. As to why it should go the Board: Due process. Again as Lord Nev noted it is standard practice in AFL clubs. A captain is a key face of the club. A Board needs to be certain the person is articulate and has good communication skills as they will front up before sponsors, media, front sponsor marketing campaings etc. This is unique to us - we had just had our fingers burnt with young captains a few years early so it would be appropriate for Board involvement. Its not as if we didn't have other candidates or have Jones as sole captain for a few more years. Instead here we are with people questioning whether he has the footy IQ, the on-field leadership skills and his public performances.

Thank you for the correction. Well Matthews shares the responsibility with Plapp re our terrible midfield stoppages and clearances this year vs 2018. There has been no change to personnel in that part of the ground so something isn't working. If our mids have opp on them that hold them up them maybe they need to lean how to shake a tag. Coaches need to be held accountable for those things The mids have had 3/4 years of training together. At round 17, I no longer buy all the stuff about preseason/injuries/fitness to explain all our poor performances, some part yes but not all.

Viney was a 'captains call' by Goodwin and if ircc he didn't consult the players, advise the existing captain and don't think he consulted the CEO or the Board. Viney will be a capt/co-capt for as long as his father and Goodwin are at the club. Todd and Simon are very good mates. Afterall, Todd recommended Simon for coach. And they are good mates with Mahoney. So any impetus for change needs to come from someone else which I just don't see happening. A real leader as co-capt is the best we can hope for. Let Viney do his 'beast' thing, retain the title but someone else with an IQ does the footy thinking and media parts.

Midfield coach, Plapp has gone under the radar. I would say the deplorable midfield performance this year needs to be laid at his door. Be it his lack of experience, creativity, adaptability or whatever, it is his job to get them performing. Just for now, forget midfield connection with the forwards and two-way running. Let's just consider their stoppage and clearance work, which supposedly is their strength. There was one game where Max had more clearances at stoppages than the whole midfield combined!!!! What are those midfielders doing between the 50m arcs which is where they should excel and dominate?. Can understand that 666 upset last year's dynamics but here we are round 17 and there has been little improvement in the middle. Max has not dropped off this year, the people around him have. That they can't take advantage of Max's dominance game after game is the biggest mystery of our season. (BTW Max made TOTW again this week). So what has Plapp being doing/not doing for the clearance and stoppage work to have gone backwards. In my mind if he is still midfield coach next year our rise up the ladder will be limited.

I would expect Ratten to step in for the next 6 games. It seems the President, Andrew Bassett will take a lead role in appointing the new coach which is somewhat unusual. The chat seems to be that is because Lethlean is plugging for another mate, Brad Scott to get the gig. If Ratten gets the interim role but not the gig for next year there is a fair chance he will also be on the market. While unlikely, would love him back at the Dees.

Good on him for jumping before he was pushed. He has been in no-win situation almost since the beginning. Poor management above him, poor assistants around him. Terrible list management decisions (McEvoy, Goddard, Del Santo, Reiwoldt, Montagna) and squandering of numerous draft picks. Now has a GM Football who pays his mate squillions to leave Sydney and is detrimental to the Saint's culture and can't get on the field. Hannebury is Carlisle Mark 11. As a senior coach one fault was his very deadpan manner when speaking publicly. Good for stability and consistency but not good for enthusiasm, energy and hope.

I'm all for putting players in their natural positions and settle the team for the next 6 games and as for the W/L que, sera, sera. That means: Gus in the midfield. As others have said we are styfling his development on the wing as we did when we played him in the fwd pocket a few years ago. Jones and now Lewis have taken his spot. Time to put him where he is most damaging injury permitting). Their is room for him in the midfield with Harmes, Viney and Oliver as our mids spend about 80% game time on filed, the 4 can easily rotate off the bench for the whole game. Fristch and Baker on the wings. Backline is fairly settled so time to get the cohesion going. Jones has found his niche in defence Lewis? Love everything he brings to our club but would rather he not play as he won't be there in 2020 and this is get ready for 2020 time. If he must play put him fwd. Not much we can do about the fwd line with a number of our best out. But we can settle the rest of the team as above. As an aside, Mahoney in a 3AW interview lauded Petracca's strength and ability to clear the ball from stoppages. For mine it is another reason for Lewis to not play in the midfield as it is styfling Petracca's development.