Lucifers Hero

Agree. But doubt Pert will get rid of Mahoney bring someone in over the top of him for a Balme type even tho that is what we need. Staff changes, if they happen will be below Mahoney and Goodwin. But that will be next year, if they happen. So we are dependent on Mahoney and Goodwin et al to get us out of this mess this year. Whether we can afford it or not that is all we have. I like your suggestion of Gubby. But he has been at he Saints for only six months. Can he be enticed away? Were he and Pert mates at the Pies? As an aside, Lethlean (as GM Football ie Mahoney's equivalent) has done a great job at the Saints. Overhauled list management, changed assistant coaches brought in specialist coaches: Slater, Brereton. Can't really see Mahoney doing similar as most coaching/football staff have been appointed during his watch.

Have been saying this for over a year and posted similar several times this week. Mahoney, Goodwin and most of our assistant coaches have only one stint in their current jobs. Those stints have been for just a few years while there has been constant improvement. Collectively they have little experience managing in turbulent times. Roos and PJ covered that in recent years. No organisation can carry that much inexperience in one department. Unfortunatley, I can't see us getting a Balme type person ie GM Football as that is the position Mahoney was promoted to some years ago with Daniel Mc Pherson as the Football Manager. They just have to learn on the job and we hope that they get it sorted quickly ?

Gas-lighting?

There are simple reasons why we can't connect going i50 - in the last two years we have let go (for good reason) most of our best field kicks to i50 in Watts and Hogan (when he played upfield) and to some extent Kent. Complemented by Hannan and Fritsch we were getting enough qulaity delivery to offset the butchering and blind bombs from our midfielders. By sheer weight of i50 numbers we scored often enough to win. - Fritsch is no longer the link-up player we lauded him for (correctly) as the Watts replacement but he is now languishing in defence. - When Hogan played fwd he would mark or bring the ball to ground (then sulk) giving us a chance at ground level. Our problem was not letting players go. It is the cumulative effect of all of them going/not being played in the fwd half without their skills being replaced. So our i50 are now appalling in quantity and quality, our forwards aren't experienced enough against good defenders and there is no one to create a contest in the air. Of course their are other i50 connect problems but I believe they start from the above.

Some fair comments. The bolded part are the foundations at every club. These days players don't last long at any club without them. All clubs need more strings to their bow and we don't seem to have them, not even after 3-4 years of list management/player development of Goodwin and Mahoney calling the shots. After reading Redleg's comment I'm not confident we are going to add the layers you speak of any time soon.

Hope said MFC officials see it differently this season or we are going nowhere!

Very disappointing for coaches to say one thing then do another. Hardly does anything for morale/trust. Your bro has good reason to be upset.

Something Goodwin did post bye last year was put a 'backstop' in opp fwd 50 running back to the square when opp attacked. It would be a handy play tonight. Keeping our defensive zone behind their fwds would also be handy to slow/stop their attacking run. Play man to man in the midfield when opp take possession in our fwd 50 will help stop their spread wide. Not hard for players to implement these but need coaches to change the method just a bit and instruct players accordingly.

I used 'rookie' yesterday referring to Goodwin and Mahoney not yet having the experience to steer us thru difficult times such as now, without Roos (for Goodwin) and PJ (for Mahoney) to guide or cover them. I was making a case for a Neil Balme type to steady the ship and support them thru challenging times thereby reducing the risk of 'rookie' errors. 'So 'rookie' was intended as breadth of experience not time. Maybe that is where SWYL picked up the 'rookie' reference.

He is in the 'Rookie' Section. https://www.melbournefc.com.au/Team/players/rookie

Funny you should say that. Jesse is looking a lot leaner and fitter. Maybe our fitness and rehab regime isn't all it is cracked up to be. Certainly their is enough anecdotal evidence saying we play injured players or let them stay on the park when injured. Then the initial injury gets worse. The latest example being Jetta playing all 4 qtrs when he could barely walk. Now out for 10-12. Should have been benched.

Thanks. These are the articles I used https://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2018-10-03/offseason-injury-update https://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-12-08/wheres-your-club-at https://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2019-01-23/preseason-injury-update-misson And I couldn't find any ref to ANB, TMac and Hibberd. Not wishing to correct you directly - just to have the discussion on interrupted preseason and current performance in the right context as surgeries are being quoted as excuses for players and the team (not by yourself).

One thing that might help us is that Rich haven't worked out how to play effectively with two tall forwards. The two big losses were with Lynch and Riewoldt in. When Riewoldt went out they rediscovered their 'DNA' ie playing to one tall fwd. Re Smith he was doing ok until this game last year when Rance jumped late (supposedly) for a mark and rammed his knee into Smith's back fracturing his ribs and puncturing his lung. Shame Rance isn't playing but Smith can seek revenge by playing a top game for us.

This is true. Since we have not had a coach who played as a forward for most or all of Sams career with us, it is an indictment on our development of him and development of synergy among all forwards.

Ok, so Goodwin and co reviewed it. What was learnt from said reviews of how WCE beat us or how they beat Coll in the GF? From the outside looking in no changes or even tweaks are visible to recruiting, game plan, tactics, so its reasonable to conclude that the 'review' was put down to what Goodwin called 'a poor game that wasn't how Melbourne play'. The point you are missing is the way WCE beat us is exactly the same as Hawks, Tigers, Pies, Saints etal did last year. And how Port, Geelong, Essendon and Saints have this year. Reviewed? Yes. Changes? No. Action? No. Goodwin can say and spin all he wants but the lack of action is there for all to see. Actions speak louder than words.

Snap!

What worries me about BM no longer in the 'coach development' role is who is 'mentoring' Goodwin? Last year I raised the issue of not having what I call a 'Football Mentor/Overseer' position ie Neil Balme (for Scott/Hardwick), George Stone (Dew), Chris Fagan (Clarkson) to mentor Goodwin and to hold him and Mahoney accountable. Nor do we have a Football Director (Greg Healy was the last one). To me these omissions were and still are weaknesses in our management structure. We have hit very turbulent waters on and off the field. Mahoney and Goodwin are still very inexperienced in their roles and have not had to perform when things go backwards. Roos or PJ were there to take the heat. imv, now more than ever that we need a Neil Balme type; someone who knows how to steady, then right the ship and how to avoid rookie errors. Someone who monitors, challenges, supports and helps find solutions when issues arise before they become problems. Without that 'overseeing' role it may be very tempting for Pert to become overly involved in football and coaching matters which by various reports was his downfall at the Pies. To me the last thing we need is the CEO trying to run the football side of things. Hope Mahoney and Goodwin get on top of it all very quickly.

Could be higher ups. Maybe it was a reaction to the JLT games...

Out of interest what were their issues? I recall training reports saying various players were in 'rehab' but more to do with tempo of work rather than injury. Even so do you think those issues prevented them having a full preseason ie missed many training sessions or would still be affecting their performance?

I don't see anything wrong with BM being 'overall defensive' coach. Clearly we desperately need one. It means assistant coaches need to work together and take notice of BM to make the role work ie one team! If they don't like it, bad luck. If the players don't like, it bad luck. Goodwin gave him that role for a reason. That is all we need to know. Anyway, it seems to be being overplayed on here - the article says it is mainly a game day issue not some ongoing malaise among coaches.

We must play well and take it up to the Tigers. A repeat of last year's 8 goal loss will give the AFL the excuse to take this game away from us. Maybe not next year but they will be watching. It is a big stage, important game. It is essential we come out to play and make it a decent game to watch. ?

I also thought about this. Of those fielded, I see four groups of players: Those with a full preseason who are consistently performing well below what they can. To name a few: Hibberd, Gawn, Tom Mc, Weideman, ANB, Spargo, Fritsch. Two AA's on that list. Official and unofficial leaders on that list. Others with niggles had an almost full preseason who are under performing their standard. Many of the surgeries were shoulder related so should have had a better fitness preseason than those with ankle/knee surgery. One wonders how diligent they were in their rehab... Those that had full preseasons and are performing consistently, even if not excelling: Salem and to a lesser extent Frost. (Honourable mention to Hore and those who are first year mfc players). I stopped buying the surgery/interrupted preseason spin after round 2 because they did not affect the whole team and those it did affect should have been match fit by then having played most of the practice matches. Surgeries alone do not give us 1-4. And they certainly do not give a percentage of a measly 75% five games in. It is woeful % and it is scary that we have fallen so far. Looks more like a poor pre season effort, all round. I have a sick feeling of deja vu to an era when poor off field leadership and standards retarded the development of a generation of our young talent. I expect it to not be repeated and hope Goodwin will use his goodwill and relationship with players to limit damage to the youngsters. But gee whiz senior players better get their act together. And fast!

Have a look at post #2 and others in this thread Skuit Some WCE big ticket items: Tagged Max and took him out of the game. Lost our 'one wood' right there. Possessed and chipped the ball around which minimised contests - the life blood of our chaos/win contested ball style. Controlled the ball inside our 50 which stopped us keeping the ball there. Short kicks across and down the line which cut thru our zone defence. They are the biggies I can recall off the top of my head. Not sure what the stats say but if we won any of them we weren't able to capitalise on them.

Agree with most of this especially not reviewing with the players. If Goodwin and coaches did review how we were beaten not much seems to have changed this year as we have been beaten the same way in most games. And the coaches still have no answers. My fear is Goodwin is not prepared to modify the chaos gamestyle preferring to make the players follow it whether they are capable or not. As you say they will lose faith in it - maybe they have; how many times have we heard the phrase 'lack of player buy-in' this year? Most coaches develop a game plan to fit their list. Goodwin seems steadfast to make the players fit the game plan and play his way. Time will tell what he learnt from the prelim 'review' and from how WCE won the GF. I hope we see what he learnt sooner rather than later.