Lucifers Hero

Sure, they reviewed it. To me the issue is how thoroughly and how seriously? This comment: "... didn’t dwell too much on the way we played because it was nothing like the way the Melbourne team plays..." reads like coaches dismissed it as an aberration( ie just a poor game) rather than respecting that WCE did a systemic dismantling of nearly every aspect of his game plan and that he had no answers. Maybe it is a rookie coach error to not see the significance of how WCE won, particularly with the euphoria of finals still in the air. But the fact is WCE's systemic dismantling has been successfully copied by other teams and we still have no answers. Perhaps if the coaches had reviewed it more deeply they would have seen the danger signs.

Does anyone in our team even know what that means anymore? Have rarely seen them try it since Roos coached. Would do wonders for our defence if they did.

Match Committee meets today so assume team announcement is this evening. Not expecting a lot from this game. I will settle for an honourable loss where we run both ways and are NOT 'easy to score against'. Hope they fight it out to the end particularly in view of the ANZAC occassion of this game.

Haven't seen Andy post this weekend so thought I would start this thread on his behalf.

The point was the imbalance was foreseeable when we recruited Wagner and Lockhart and we didn't act on it. The rule changes simply exacerbated the imbalance, in particular lack of wingmen and forward depth.

Agreed. From his press conf he thinks its the players: aren't working hard enough, can't get the ball i50 accurately enough (ie can't connect) and our forwards can't mark (ie can't connect). His points have validity but are only part of the story. I didn't get the impression he thought it was game plan related issues. I would be more confident of improvement if he said something like: we will look at all aspects of our game, player skills, workrate, structures, forward leading and positioning, ball movement etc. It wouldn't hurt to take and share the responsibility.

Maybe not foresee 1-4. But they should have foreseen the impact of the rule changes and that our list was unbalanced when we took Wagner and Lockhart. Our recruiting was based on the 2018 game plan ie zone defence, forward half team that relied heavily on winning the contest. There was sufficient experience in many games last year including the prelim that showed our game plan has severe limitations and it is easy to score against. Goodwin said so this week and DL's and commentators have been saying it since the Hawks game early last year. Its not new news. Yet we continued to commit recruiting resources to it. Blind faith? Stubborness? Inflexible? To me the game plan weaknesses were foreseeable. We now play recruiting catch up. Maybe they have just woken up and realised that over the last two years we have traded out (with good reason) players who contributed about 70-80 goals per annum without replacing them and now we don't have fwd depth? Its no wonder our play is breaking down in our fwd half. Blind faith that a fwd line with only one experienced AFL fwd (Melksham) would get the job done? The severity of the AVB and Hannan injuries were known at the time we took Lockhart. The recruiting took out no insurance for fwd line depth in case Tom Mc was injured and Sam needed more development or they fell out of form. The risks were clearly foreseeable. If 17 other coaches could foresee the impact of the rules and recruited accordingly, why could not ours? I would think our list management should foresee the risks of limited depth in key positions on the ground particularly tall forwards, wingmen.

Fristly, thanks for the info - good to have such insight. It can't be new news to the club that our list is unbalanced and largely one-dimensional. Wondering, why would we not have gone for one of those with our last pick instead of taking Lockhart a month ago. Not a knock on Lockhart but we need someone like O'Reilly, Pickett, Saad, Lowson more than we need another small contested ball midfielder type. FWD depth and a speedy type would be great to have right now. We could have also taken one of those with the pick we used for Wagner in the special preseason draft.

Half way thru the 3rd and Carlton haf a 5 goal lead and heading for their first win. If it ends like this they will be 14th on the ladder. ?

Salem: The Lone Ranger. Our best again yesterday. Consistently good in most games this year.

It is laughable! Just as laughable as when Goodwin played with no wingmen vs Hawks last year. And he had Jones play as a tagger on Mitchell in that Hawks game, just as he had him tag Billings in the first half yesterday. Jones is not a tagger, is not a wingman and is not a leader. Let's get to the bye then play the kids. Can't be any worse than playing retirees-to-be and VFL level players.

Well, I was right on one of these but wrong on the other: 1. Tick - the game was lost in the coaches box. 2. Cross - our coaches were not up to the challenge and their inexperience showed. Ratten would have brought all his Hawks knowledge to the Saints and especially how the Hawks thrashed us early last year. Did our coaches not anticipate how they might play and the impact of Ratten? Goodwin needs new assistants to help him. Rich, Coll and now possibly the Saints have been transformed with a change of assistants. Some of our key line coaches (Plapp and Chaplin) had zero AFL coaching experience and it shows. Many of our coaches have not had on field success, which I know isn't everything. But, overall our assistant coaching panel is fairly lightweight. And the 2018 finals series aside (was it only a dream...) they don't seem to be creative or flexible. I am very worried about our next two games: Tigers then Hawks. Could easily be 1-6 in 10 days. I hope Goodwin is looking for new assistants now (and not just Chaplin), otherwise Pert might start looking for on his behalf.

If that is so they took a very big gamble and at this stage it has not paid off. A flag is just one side of it. The other side is: Sponsorship (Jaguar is only a one year deal); memberships (thousands of new members joined this year that probably won't next), game attendances (who wants to see thrashings); broadcasting (there go our Thru/Fri/Sat night timeslots); funding for new facilities; etc. All these will suffer badly as a result of a 1-4 start. Yes, a very big gamble and very cavalier of them to flirt with the hard work put in by so many over the last few years to get some respectability for our club. If your hunch is right, they better have a plan to get us up and running soon or we will be 1-6 in 10 days after playing Tigers and Hawks at the G.

Viney: “They got more numbers to the contest – we’d kick it long or inside 50 and I just felt like they had more numbers there than us...that’s the part where I’m not too sure how it broke down..." It is scary that even after the game he still did not know. And I prefer he didn't tell the world he doesn't know. And, how could he not know? Does he not know the game plan well enough? As co-cap and on-field leader it is his job to know the game plan backwards and be alert to when things/players are not working to the plan and initiate changes in positioning, effort, moral etc. Jack's own work rate set the example but the rest of his leadership was terrible! His leadership co-horts weren't much better. It looked like Brown's cows out there! Had hoped that with Lewis back our on-field leadership would improve. Not so.

That the new teams are able to plunder existing teams is having a horrendous affect. Bulldogs have lost their captain who is their heart and sole player and also lost their current B&F. Carlton have lost their captain and the Lions have been plundered. This is unacceptable in a fledgling competition. The AFL should have done more to protect existing teams. I don't know where Rich is getting all the money to attract big name players. It has been suggested that some players are being offered 6 figure sums to change clubs. I am very grateful that our core players are sticking with us. But what is happening elsewhere is not good for the competition and does little to engender fan loyalty to a particular club.

Future Demons The club had 15 potential future stars come along for the day, including: Kynan and Ryder Brown – sons of Nathan Brown (146 games, 1998-2007) Jemma and Paige Rigoni – daughters of Guy Rigoni (107 games, 1998-2005) Noah and Jasmine Yze – son and daughter of Adem Yze (271 games. 1995-2008) Tex Robertson – son of Russell Robertson (228 games, 1997-2009) Logan and Jade Wheatley – son and daughter of Paul Wheatley (135 games, 2000-2009) Tegan Williams - daughter of David Williams (67 games, 1983-1988) Tigga Johnstone – son of Travis Johnstone (160 games, 1998-2007) Tom and Max McDonald – sons of Anthony McDonald (104 games, 1997-2002) Kate O’Dwyer – daughter of Steven O’Dwyer (84 games, 1987-1991) Rylee and Autumn Ward – daughters of Daniel Ward (136 games, 1998-2007) How proud for the mums and dads!

My apologies Dame Gaga. HWSNBN refers to Scully in the posts suggesting we should have made a play for him. That is a good point re Buddy being private and this is probably all media click bait. Edit: HWSNBN= He Who Shall Not Be Named when Scully became a .persona non grata

HWSNBN made it clear he would only go to two clubs from GWS - we were not one of them. Why make a play for a player who has no interest in the red and blue!!

Agreed. Is said to have various off-field issues not dissimilar to Jesse! No way we would take Buddy!

AFL Player Salaries Based on the table in the article the median is between $300k and $400k. A fair chance that it is around the average of approx $360. I don't think we have a player over $800k so a few of our champs are being paid 'unders'. I recall Lewis giving the players a pep talk a few years ago that if they want the ultimate success they need to grow together so can't be asking top dollar. So far players seem to have been paying attention. As and aside, supporters have a tendency to overstate what player x might actually be earning. Only 140 of 703 players earnt more than $500k.

Sorry, I just can't abide that comment. Ablett and Buddy loved their clubs, had played for them for 8-10 years and helped them win multiple premierships. Both highly respected inside and outside their clubs. No comparison to HWSMBN who played for a year then had a dubious knee injury. He made it obvious he did not want to play in the red and blue, didn't get on with teammates, walked out on a trip to China and showed no respect for our club, President or fans. No prodigal son scenario for him at the Dees, imv!

If the clubs I mentioned want a replacement for a tall fwd there are a limited number available, so I don't agree they need a reality check. Regarding Sam's performance/potential, I'm not sure who you might be comparing him to. I compare him to other tall players in his draft year: Hipwood leads the field for consistently good performance but he wasn't available and may end up being the pick of the crop. Curnow is getting a lot of kudos but he has stalled this year. All have had fluctuating performances as has Sam. None of the draftees have stood up in a big game like Sam did in the finals. imv he is as good if not better than most of his peers. I have little doubt when Hawks, Cats, Pies, Ess, Sydney go hunting for a fwd they will look at that pool. What other choices do they have? I don't wish to buy into what Sam's $ worth as Mahoney has great control over our salary cap and keeping players. But we supporters shouldn't underestimate that he would be in demand.

I'm rethinking 'not worried' of a few days ago. This game may be won or lost in the coaches box. Saints have some decent new Assistant Coaches: Brett Ratten - a Clarkson protege, ex Senior Coach and premiership captain, Brendon Lade - premiership ruckman. They seem to have their players up and about each week with fairly consistent, albeit not great performances. I think our comparatively inexperienced coaches are up to the challenge but it is shaping up to be quite a different game to last year.

It is a shame there have been some unsatisfactory experiences with the membership department. I need to put in a good word for them. I thought during the finals series they were outstanding helping people thru the ticketing process. Ditto during the early days of the membership renewal to get reserved seats together. They were also inundated with requests for memberships, upgrades and reserved seat requests in Sept/Oct. November is close to peak period - the team was trying to satisfy all member requests and update their info for it to go to the mailing house in time to get packs out promptly. @pewpewpewsend an email to the membership department and mark it for Tracy's attention. I found her to be outstanding.

Not sure if it came via email or I found it on club website. 2019 Heartbeat