Cranky Franky

Look he was actually one of my favourites in his first 2 years but you have to be a bit hard nosed & objective if you want to be a successful Club. He is ok if he is left on his own but as soon as he has to do anything under any sort of pressure he goes to pieces, falls over, misses his targets & generally panics. The Box Hill smalls (who are VFL standard) destroyed him in the last half of the GF.

Wrong - JKH gets s#1t because he has barely improved after several years on the list and heaps of chances. Have a look at the second half of the 2018 VFL Grand Final - he was woeful & barely got a touch.

This is just about all we are good for - showing old clips of old champion players because the season is going down the toilet.

Disappointed that they didn't give Keilty a run - he deserves it. Tim Smith is a very average VFL player who plays a couple of very good VFL games a year. His skills are barely up to VFL standard.

Absolute crap. Dunn wasn't perfect but a mile ahead of Frost or Oscar even now 3 years later. Absolutely stupid decision to let him go & probably the worst one Roos made (along with being talked out of recruiting Higgins who went to North instead).

There are some things we never get the full story on - the Stan Alves dumping, Darren Jolly being overlooked for Jamar etc. Dunn clearly fell out of favour with the coaching staff & they put a line through his name - he was not going to get picked again regardless. Stupid move I reckon as he had a fair bit left to offer. Howe got offered good $ by the Pies - maybe we didn't think he would be as good and as consistent as he has been at Collingwood.

A very handy player - not quiet a gun.

I saw Bennet play - don't think he qualifies as a "champion" - never heard him referred to as Billy. My mate used to call him NICE MAN because he never belted anyone. Anyhow I reckon Tom has a long way to go to match Neitz as a classic marking & kicking FF.

Who on earth is or was Billy Bennett ??????

Are you serious - JOSH WAGNER ?????? From what i have seen a lack of attack on the ball and opponent is one of his main problems - lacks any physical edge to his game whatsoever. Also needs to use the ball better & get more touches. Even at Casey he was solid rather than great.

I'm with you. Weid has potential but has been great in 1 game & solid in maybe 3 other games - still a long, long, long way to go. Has the turning circle of the Titanic & is poor below the knees. Have a look at his ruck work in his last few games - its worse than horrible. We are all hopeful but the comments on here are silly - he is a work in progress and a million miles from being a reliable key forward.

Its just footy mate not splitting the atom or planning the D day invasion. Just an instinctive tackle & a player trying to throw his tackler. Do it 3 times & you probably end up with 3 different results. Just proves that VDB is one of the best tacklers in the team & is a strong boy.

Vanders' disposal in that final was poor & it is the weakest part of his game. He more than makes up for it with his aggression & ability to find the footy. It was no surprise to me that on a day when most of his teammates went missing Vanders was one of our best players.

Sorry mate but either its an urban myth or you made it up.- 1966 was Alan Poore's (Waverley) second consecutive Liston Trophy, and he became the first player ever to win the award twice. Paul Ladds (Sandringham) was second with 27 votes, and Barry Ion (Yarraville) was third with 26 votes.

Sorry I can't let the last comment go so I'm reneging on my "last ever post on the matter" The fact is Smith has done a total of SFA while Pedersen built a career out of hard work & being a totally selfless team player, crashing packs & working his backside off as an undersize ruckman. In 2018 he dominated at Casey & was probably our best player over the finals series. By contrast Smith did practically nothing in 2018 & very little in 2017. I watched him in the Casey finals where he was almost embarrassing, trying to take speccies, missing easy goals and being a wasted space in the ruck.

Fact check - Sheedy did not win a Liston Trophy. Actually he was tied to Melbourne & trained with a the Club a few times.

My last ever post on this ....... If you reckon Smith is a better forward than Pedersen I'm pretty much speechless. I suppose if he improves on his 4 senior games & racks up 80 odd matches like Pedo did you will be proved right. Anyhow at Casey in 2018 Smith played 15 games for 12 goals while Pedersen had 17 games for 32 goals.

This will probably go down as one of the most meaningless debates in Demonland history. And look I am not suggesting Pedersen was any more than a journeyman battler who was approaching the end of the line. Its just that by any objective measurement, statistics, form, influence of games, goals, ability to play different roles at Casey & at Melbourne Pedo was about a 7 & Smith a 5. I watched them both closely in the Casey finals & Pederson was solid while Smith was poor so I was stunned when he was kept on the list.

"Because I do" is pretty lame evidence. At least I can point to the stats that show Pedo ran rings around Smith at Casey - maybe you should check them out.

How on earth would you value Smith higher than Pedersen as a forward ?? Pedersen played lots of solid games at Melbourne as a forward while Smith did nothing in his couple of appearances. And last season Pedersen was outstanding at Casey while Smith did very little and was poor in the finals.

I know this is a retro topic but I still haven't got over how they delisted Pedersen but kept Tim Smith on the list. Pedo was a serial scapegoat & was the first dropped whenever the firsts had a bad game however in every Casey game that I saw Pedo outperformed Smith by a long, long way. Pedo is also more versatile than Smith. In the finals Smith looked like someone playing schoolyard footy as he kept trying to take hangers. His kicking for goal was woeful & he is pretty hopeless in the ruck. Anyhow its all over now but I reckon it was a shocking decision.

What is he 23 or 24 & now having his 3rd knee surgery. Not looking good

Hemingway you really are pontificating about this without a shred of evidence for Jeff's particular circumstances. Its like an inverse form of apartheid. Guess what - Indigenous people can be stupid, greedy, spit the dummy and and make poor decisions just like non Indigenous people can. Lots of people come from difficult circumstances when they are growing up - Col Sylvia, David Schwarz & Col Garland for example. You don't do anybody any favours by pulling out the racial excuse whenever an Indigenous player has a problem or a loss of form. Its pretty obvious from what I saw - he got dropped, spat the dummy and stopped trying - EXACTLY LIKE HE DID AT CARLTON. He's not the first & he won't be the last footballer to do it. .

Its all between the ears for Jeff. People need to remember he did exactly the same thing at Carlton. When he gets the chitz he does so in a big way. He had the luxury this year of being contracted on good $$ for next year. When a player of his calibre is getting 5 or 6 touches at Casey he is clearly not trying and good on the coaches for sticking to their guns..

Don't think you can qualify as a steal until you have played at least 100 games so the jury is still out on ANB, VDB and Hunt. Darren Jolly & Stef Martin were very low picks unfortunately we were not smart enough to realise their potential ditto Nathan Basset. Jeremy Howe another one. ,