Demon Dynasty

Ummmm..... well not quite completely i don't think. I always thought the spine included the mid field or at least a gun or 2 rotating through there (or together), hence this point in my post...... "..... 'A' grade grunt in & under mid fielder with footy smarts/skills and extremely fast reflexes/top line agility. I guess many of the things that would make him an A grader lol. And preferably another who has a little more outside gut running ability/ to clear effectively."........ I agree. It's a key component.

No....no one is stupid on here. Some might argue i am however for posting this ~ G'day Maximum! Hows it goin mate! haha Just a headline to highlight a view and more directed at myself for thinking we would probably fudge our way through this season and cover our gaps somehow. I agree on the skills side. Certainly not saying the spine/youth matters are the only answer to our probs! Sure, If we murder the ball it wont matter much who we have up forward (unless we got a Buddy running around or similar who's impressive off the ground as well). However, you don't think our skills and boys would up the ante a little with some key appointments (more senior as well) and the pressure coming off some of our younger crew? Ie., the opposition having a few more core problems to cover and worry about?

Phew....thanks Old D. I was gonna head down....but didn't get to bed early enough. Have to give up me late night poker next time. Anyone else on here heading down sometime (apart from regulars i mean who're already entrenched lol)....let me know. Be nice to catch up sometime. Cheers

Anyone know of a replay.....and please don't tell me it was just on ABC lol

Lol Super So does that Fev dude eh.... (uh oh .... go easy fellas wontcha! )

Bloody hell. Now that sounds like a team on fire. Thanks for the updates Time to get my slack arse down to some of their games. Time to head back to some real burbs footy. Just like the old days lol. Bugger this AFL stuff B) .

In the end we haven't enough grunt up the spine. - Power Forward. - Nice tallish defender with big bod/strength that can take a big power forward (solid play too). - 'A' grade grunt in & under mid fielder with footy smarts/skills and extremely fast reflexes/top line agility. I guess many of the things that would make him an A grader lol. And preferably another who has a little more outside gut running ability/ to clear effectively. Add to this our severe over-weighting of youth (at this point), and IMO you have 2 major issues that result in us struggling to piece together any consistency from week to week. Too many holes to fill up the spine and inconsistency from youth not quite capable of winning their role most weeks, let alone covering the huge spine gaps. Yes i can hear some of you mulling this over and saying "well so what, it's a youth thing.....just wait for our boys to mature and have faith". Personally, apart from Watts (and maybe a few i haven't seen from Casey yet who would be 3 - 4 years away from maturing ... at least), i don't see the other gaps being filled at this point. And even Watts, although i'm sure he'll be very good once he matures, i'm not sure he'll end up being a power forward as such. Having said that, another demonoid also put up Petterd as a trade option on an earlier post here, saying that we have too many players the ilk of Petterd, Howe, Jurrah, Bate, Dunn, Green and Sylvia (Sylvia maybe not quite the same league in height but plays forward as well). I'm not saying Petterd is the only one to trade or THE one to trade from these either btw. Nor that we have to trade medium forwards alone in order to get what's needed. But his post does have some validity re overweight (not in the fat stakes!) medium forwards. As to who to trade etc., i'm putting my faith and hope that the new Coach and his team will trade/draft to turn it around. Would have to be some juicy trade bait put out there i would think, if we're to get what's needed. I can see us slowly improving on this year as we mature (not hard given this year's outcome i realise) , but more than likely being mediocre (at best).....for quite some time, unless we fix the spine in readiness for our younger talent becoming fully mature in 2 - 3 years. Your views?

Yep.....on field, that pretty much sums up this year for me WYL. Apart from a few of the younger players developing their game a little and an extra 10 - 20 games into some. There were plenty of positives off field early......and then there was....well...ahem. Oh, and Jimma's efforts this year. The biggest inspiration off field for me.

You have a source for this stat please drd? Just wondering if it's based on what you've seen somewhere. You're correct re lack of entries, the Demons rank 13th for total inside 50s behind Adelaide (10th), Richmond (11th)) and St Kilda (12th). To be sitting below St Kilda is a little on the scary side for me as they play a fortress style, hence you'd expect them to be in the lower quartiles. The top 5 teams for entries inside 50 are.... Collingwood, Geelong (no surprises in those two), Carlton, Essendon and North. Hawks only a few stats behind North in 6th rank. The Saints being the only team presently in the top 8 who rank below the top 8 on this stat, sitting in 12th place. Our forward line might be effective once we mark the ball i50, ie., conversion....but we rank 9th in the league for marks i50. I guess that's correlated to the number of entries though so would need to see a ratio on that one to better understand where we're at. Love to see the shallow versus deep entry stats you're discussing up there too, as well as shots on goal within (and just outside) the ark. We're actually not as bad as i thought re hitting up a target either inside 50. Ranked 9th. One of the issues we've had all year though IMO is our inability to lock ball in there once the ball hits the turf and lack of crumbing quick smalls to take advantage of it when it does. We rank 14th in tackles i50, although i'd prefer to see an 'effective' tackles i50 stat. One stat that seems to be quite positive for us is the effective disposal percentage where we are sitting 6th, ahead of Carlton, Essendon and West Coast. A few others that surprised me..... Contested marks...8th Centre bounce clearances ... 8th (1 behind the Pies!). I guess it's what you do afterwards and who you're getting it to that counts lol. Clangers...5th least offender here. One stat i'd definitely like us to improve on a little though....50 meter penalties against. Ranked 1st lol. Stats: Courtesy of AFL Stats and Pro Stats

He was probably our best player other than Col in that first half.....off half back. So lets move the player in our backline, who's probably having the most impact..forward in the 3rd quarter guys...what you reckon??? Let me think about that for 1 second.....ummm....NO! Personally Col doesn't have the physicality/bod nor the experience or kicking accuracy in front of goals that i'm aware of, to play a forward role at this point. I prefer him down back (on the right match up) anyday. To me, all this move showed me was how desperate we were given our forward situation atm. Add to this the woeful manner in which we deliver the ball to our forwards and/or attempt to run the ball into the 50 in many cases. A pretty inept forward line generally, when up against anyone other than the bottom 4 or 5 (ie., clubs below us or at or about the same standard as us). Our general inaccuracy hasn't helped our cause either (Sunday's first 3 quarters...mostly the 3rd... one of the few positive exceptions). Been a killer for us for much of the year and a huge deemoraliser for the team as a whole i reckon.

I have no idea when it comes to how the draft/trade system works but can someone explain to me whether there's any possibility of???.... IF the Scull ends up going to GWS, and we get the two early first round draft picks for him (is that right lol?)....are we able to trade one of those early first round picks to say Port and maybe a Morton or someone who's not a required player on our list next year, for Butcher? Media drivel is saying Carltons in the hunt. Whether there's any truth or not, I'd hate to pass this guy up. Looks like a champ in the making/offing to me. Reminds me a little of a right footed version of Scotty Lucas. I'll throw up if the blues got him ahead of us and he's running around kicking bags against us (and others) in the next few years, having already seen the Judster pass us by and go there.

Why not both.... Bit of an insurance policy if Fev experiment fails or even if Butcher doesn't work out for some reason (back or other cronic injury). If however they both work.....we've got a ready made FF in Fev more than likely kicking a decent bag.....and a very nice developing potential CHF (maybe even an A grader) in Butcher, also adding to the score line. Fev takes some of the heat off our younger brigade for a little while as Butcher, Howe and Watts fill out their bods and mature on the field with much needed game time and pre-seasons. Petterd and Jurrah in the mix as well rotating through! When Fev eventually retires (i'm assuming we might get say 2 - 3 years if it works out on and off the field), the now matured boys are ready to go it alone in support of each other and bring it, with 60 - 80+ games under their belt. Watts would probably then be ready to hold down FF (albeit he might be used elsewhere at times i realise) as he and Butcher come into their own around about the time Fev goes. Watts is being used anywhere but a key forward position for most of the match atm anyway. FD can still play him there for short stints regardless, even with Fev there, while Fevs being rested or if injured. The MFC mantra for mine.... WHATEVER IT TAKES

Lol.... glad it worked for someone... Cheers Paul

Trenners, Watts or Frawley long term. Just a year too early for them given the nonsense off field. If the club was more settled, i'd be more willing to consider one of them slotting in long term next year. Moloney for next year to fill the void and take the heavy load in a year which is going to have some pretty high expectations to carry. I love his brute force 'never die wondering' style and his tackles which almost always stick. And his love of the Demons and jumper. Just wish he'd correct that up n under 'hail mary' kick he puts in sometimes. I'd thought he'd shaken it last year and earlier this year, but it seems to be creeping back into his repertoire again of late. FWIW.... watching him carefully on Sunday, i also feel he's just lacking that bit of agility/speed in the legs imo. Could be the effects of a long season. But this aspect is even more critical on better quality opposition who tend to have this mobility/speed of execution aspect in their top end players right to the end of most games. Just looks a tad top heavy for mine atm. Hopefully the FD can get him to lose a kilo or 3 up top (not sure he'd be too happy being asked to ) and lighten/quicken him up a little in the legs/running area. Might assist in making a few extra contests and speed up his execution a touch too, especially late in the game. We need big bodies like his around the ball, not questioning that, but it's a pretty big frame for him to carry for 4 long quarters.

Interesting post. Might suggest this group just hasn't played enough footy together to have that confidence as well as a few too many inexperienced boys and weak links, even amongst the senior brigade. Things will improve somewhat once they're more settled and the structure is more balanced and consistent from week to week. More mature/harder bodies and minds hopefully as they get the experience pre seasons into them too. Problem is, our other opponents aren't standing still in their progression/efforts to improve. New leaders as well!! Hopefully this year has been a big 'sort out' time for the list and we'll have a little more composure and confidence from here. Less player rotatations than this year, making those wishing to break into the team having to work harder at the non-negotiables, thereby lifting the standard of play/player in our first 22. Improving the standards in our bottom 4 - 6 etc and placing more pressure on the seniors to live up to their name and keep getting a game as well. Fingers crossed for next year and beyond that we start to click in these areas.

Maturity will help agreed. We still lack 1 or 2 go to designated kickers (from the goal square after a behind) who we have total confidence in their disposal by foot though. Each week (sometimes even within quarters) it seems to me we're trying out someone different, as we aren't condifent with any 1 or 2 specialists, or haven't found them yet (still searching/trying/developing probably). Of course you have to consider the set up ...up field and what the opposition are also doing with their set ups up field with their zone/press, which would also go towards determining who the designated kicker/s is/are from week to week. But i still think we havent found even 1 who we're completely confident with. The problem doesn't entirely lie with only finding 1 or 2 specialist kicker's either, as the receivers need to be able/willing to work their ass off to run into space and spread to designated areas etc (ie., carry out intructions well) in order for the kicker to hit up his potential target/s more effectively. But that first kick (and the next) out of the goal square/back half is so crucial against well drilled presses and zones now. We just haven't done this well on a consistent basis all year i'm afraid and this to me is yet another part of the puzzle that's been missing this year. A little slow and predicatable also. Looking forward to this area improving big time next year and therafter.

Yep. Not bad at all. In a baskett case team too. It's early days, but i think his asking price just increased a little. As the MFC stated at the start of this year (it's major catch cry for all things FD/MFC)....... WHATEVER IT TAKES!!! B)

How many times have we heard it from commentators (usually ex players giving expert commentary) as they watch our games unfold objectively and say??....... "I wouldn't like to be a forward playing with the Demons at the moment". In other words, the way we bring the ball in monsters our forward's opportunities and their chances of conversion. And it's not just one or two players. It's our experienced crew, and our not so experienced crew etc. From yesterday.... Jones, Moloney, Scully McKenzie, Martin! No it's not something that happens by just these players, nor every single time they enter the forward line in every match. We do sometimes hit up a leading target. We do occasionally lower our eyes and find a better option. But i'd sure love to see the 'hail mary' percentage of entries into our forward 50. If we had a Carey, an Ablett, a Dunstall, a Cloke, or even a Pods. If we had a Betts, a Milne, a Swan or a Stevie Johnson to work off the crumbs and score occasionally from what's left over when the key forward fails to take the big grab, which is quite often the case. Then our 'hail mary' style might actually produce a better conversion rate and i wouldn't be so concerned. Even Col, with his BOG performance yesterday, either missed the odd target coming in, or failed to look around and lay off to a better positioned running player on a few odd occasions. Jones also missed at least one option coming inside 50 where a player was clearly in a better position to score in that last quarter. The team things. The way we bring the ball into the 50 has to change big time if we're sticking with this present line up, or we need to do some serious recruiting to ensure it pays off a little more. Maybe a bit of both. This and the lack of pressure our forwards bring and our inability to implement an effective workable forward press (and cope with it up the other end in defence) are a few of the key reasons, i believe, why we've performed so poorly across the year. There are certainly other reasons of course. Some of which are beyond the player's control such as injury, inexperience, off field shinanigans. I'm not saying it's all to do with just these things. But the above certainly hasn't helped our cause so far.

(Most of this written last night so pls excuse the time context)... Junk time of the season for me. Personally i'm not judging anyone too harshly or giving glowing assessments, nor do i see today's effort, as an indication or representation of this year's 'overall' performance. For me, the season finished last week in terms of being in the mix and true quality of opposition. As RR said, i feel it's the quality of our more experienced players (100+ gamers) where they just aren't quite able to maintain the level needed over a long enough period during the match that lets us down. There are rare exceptions, like Sylvia playing an A grade game this week. But lets face it, we just don't have enough quality experienced (100+ gamers) in general in most games to make a significant difference when up against quality opposition. On average about six 100+ gamers this year versus around 11 - 14 who've played less than 50 games (ie., half the team or more consist of rookies every week). Too hard to cover this many rookies week in and week out. And it comes home to roost eventually. However, imo some of those seniors are just that split second off the money in terms of finishing off their early work (or the early good finishing work of certain others below them experience wise). By that, i mean just a split second too slow with their reaction times/disposal. Just a split second too slow in their decision making under pressure. Occasional choice making under pressure that just doesn't work in our favour or a poor percentage option when not under full on or extreme pressure. Ineffective ball use by foot, in both general field play and when bringing the ball inside 50, that allows the opposition back into the play and or allows them to force another stoppage or turn over by our inability to hit up a target on the lead, or at least place it to his advantage. We do this very well at times, and when we do it works out well. Just not able to keep doing it for long enough or when under increased pressure when the heat turns up. Also it's very hard to cover 2 or 3 players who are struggling to 'find' form when the opposition is mostly on, regardless of who you're playing (Port Power excluded at this point lol). I would place in this field Jamar and Davey at present. I'd rather play younger more inexperienced players to get games into them, like Gawn and Jetta (other... Nicho maybe) for the last 2 rounds. Just a wish. Also, I personally don't feel Jamar has been at his best (even prior to yesterday's match) since his injury. Since then i've always felt we look and perform better with Martin in the middle. Resting Martin down forward and Jamar in the middle more often (like we did yesterday) is presently a huge tactical error. Sure his body work (Jamar's) is still quite good and he's a big unit to move, and he's needed there on occasions to give Martin a rest. But Martin offers the mobility and capability to get to the contest and provide a little run once the ball hits the turf in the middle as well as the odd off the ground clearance. He also taps a little more to 'our' advantage. Jamar gets his share of tap outs also, but less to our advantage IMO and is a liability at this point once the ball hits the turf (which obviously is most of the time). I'm not saying Jamar isn't up to this level once he's fully fit and that he wont get back to his best, but he's no where near his best at present and we're losing the middle contests more often when he's in there. Martin for me until Jamar's form has returned. He might need further rest and work on his knee. I'm just guessing and have no idea on this of course. Then there's the bottom end, say bottom 4 - 6 least experienced players that just don't have the ability/tank/work ethic yet to produce the intensity for more than about 2 - 3 quarters when asked and as the heat goes up a notch at various stages of a game. To be expected given where they're at in their development. I'm afraid this is just where we're at atm. Albeit there's certain aspects to the 'effort' and defensive game (up forward) that have let us down big time this year imo. In addition we go missing in stoppage clearances and middle clearances for just long enough to allow the opponent back in again in many matches, or to rip it away from us when against the top teams who generally monster us for longer here. This problem may not just rest with the players and their experience/development/ability/talent etc either. Possibly poor management, or just a particular game style they've learned over the pre season and previous years that's taken them down the wrong path versus where the leading opposition teams are at. It'll take a super coach, a shoring up and settling of the off field, at least 2 more pre-seasons and some excellent drafting/trades to fill a few gaping holes, if we're to build this team into a hard nosed group with a thirst and hunger for success. The one major positive i take from this evening and last week, is that we were able to lift our intensity in the 3rd quarter and get ourselves back into the game (this week) or at least compete with a neutral result rather than a complete 2nd half blow out (last week). but in the end the better teams will continue to prey on our weaknesses, and our weak links, week after week, until we resolve them (through trades/drafts and/or improve them with a few more pre seasons, decent coach/development etc). The basis of a very solid team is there IF we get some key decisions right from here and we learn from our mistakes this year both on and off the field. The one thing i'd wish for next year, is this team and club becoming much more professional week to week, this includes effort and intensity, no matter who or where we're playing and who (or who isn't) in the team. We need to start building some respect, amongst ourselves, and our opposition. And definitely no more 'Amateur Hour' matches (halfs or quarters) where we just roll over! Hopefully this new work ethic and building of some respect begins as soon as the new coach and team is appointed.

Haha... uh oh .... Do you want me to check the weather Clarence?

Lol.....i think a degree of skepticism is healthy BB. However, i'm not judging anyone's performance (nor was i before yesterday's match) following the West Coast game last week. To me the true competition (for us) finished last week. These last 3 games were always going to be junk time matches where the boys had nothing to lose and were coming up against lessor quality opponents, when compared to previous matches and the stage of the season (where we were still in the mix potentially). Sylvia came up against a better quality opposition last week and..... And how would you rate his performance for the rest of the year prior to yesterday? Has he lived up to expectations? I'm not saying he's a poor performer generally over the year, but i'm not sure he's lived up to our expectations (or his) on a consistent basis either. The dilemma is, that at his best, IMO he's our only part-time A grader. But the emphasis is part time. Like any player, they're all tradable provided we receive extremely good value in return. I'd be willing to trade him, but only for extremely good value like a key A grade forward or mid fielder. If we can't find this value (which is highly unlikely) then a shorter based (performance oriented) contract for mine going forward given the $ he's probably on and his seniority/experience. What he showed yesterday was a glimpse in a match that doesn't count IMO. A nice glimpse but a real teaser at the wrong end of the season. He has stepped up before (Pies match last year etc). Not saying he hasn't. But i'm not judging anyone on yesterday's game....or the next 2 either.

Agree. Hasn't had the pre seasons to develop a tank yet. He wasn't alone in the last quarter either. A few others were struggling a little with their tank. The run off half back and delivery to Jurrah was also a highlight for me (i think their was one other passage too). However, i also enjoyed Garlands steadiness off half back and for me the biggest highlight was his 2nd and 3rd effort (chasing/ tackles/inferred pressure) in a 3 to 1 contest on the Southern wing that resulted in enough pressure for a Tiger turnover (ball in stoppage) and a chance for us to win a clearance. The ability/will to impose/contest in 2nd/3rd efforts was one of the key missing components for me this year from too many of our more experienced players in certain situations in other matches. Certainly has dash and i like his ability to take them on and break lines. I'd like to see at least 3 more pre-seasons plus 60 odd games before i start salivating prematurely though. New players very early in their career often get off the leash sometimes until the opposition's had a good look at them and how they roll. Life often gets a little tougher thereafter. It was also only the Tigers and a game at the wrong end of the season to be placing too much emphasis re anyone's performance (our last 3 matches are 'junk time' games). I wont say i'm not watching with interest however B)

..... "I am, and don't call me Shirley!!"

I'm hoping we can trade/recruit for at least 6 players. 4 of them goal to goal line. 1: A tall brute of a FB, able to cover similar sized/bruising forwards Freeing up Frawley a little or at least allowing him to play on next biggest bodied and/or 'quicker on lead' match up. 2. At least 2 strong bodied elite mids, super quick with their reflexes and effective by both hand and foot. By strong bodied, i'd want them to be capable of moving their opponents off the ball, hold the ball up (McKenzie style) when they can't and a great chase/tackling/2nd 3rd effort ethic. Taking on the likes of chappy, Mitchel, Swan,Watson etc head on. They'll both need super quick reflexes to feed the ball off quickly to other strong outside runners (gut runners who can spread like crazy all day if needed) and further if required, until we have it in the hands of great finish/delivery players going inside 50. If this means we go around the ground (wide) and cutting back inside 50 using the angles....so be it (Filth style). With the aim to improve our scoring effectiveness when winning the clearances. 3. A class outside runner off half back who can finish with class (strong through the body though)....in a similar vein to Burgoyne. Could be Blease after a few more pre-seasons but too early to say. Maybe a Jetta as back up or 2nd go to outside runner. Again too early to say if he'll make the grade as he's only shown this in glimpses in the seniors. 4. A key forward with one touch marking skills. Either in a pack (overhead) and/or on the lead up. Grows into the role and learns to become a great finisher (Butcher?). I'd be happy to fill this role in the short term with a Fev (provided we get a good deal $ wise, and an appropriate performance based contract with an 'out clause' for non negotiables either on or off field) while this player and other young forwards develop/grow into their roles. Alternatively someone like Dawes although i have reservations about his ability to be as effective without another big body like Cloak alongside. 5. A tough as, quick assed small forward, who knows how to read a ball off the pack and work his way into spaces for a receive on hit up as well. Sneak, scrap, scrag, tackle and chase to help with forward press (pressure) and kick goals out of his bum from almost any angle from within 30. Oh yeah, and heapz of gym work and extra sandwhiches lol I realise this is a tough ask. Not expecting any overnight results. 2 - 3 years shouldn't be too big an ask to bring these through though eh? That's it Alastair....(oops sorry, bit of wishful thinking there)....i meant Mark of course. Good luck Choco

6 - Sylvia 5 - Garland 4 - Jones 3 - McKenzie 2 - Bartram 1 - Trengove Apologies ... Blease, Bennell, Morton, Rivers & Frawley