Demon Dynasty

Not sure where those stats came from.....my reading of it is we came equal 4th (alongside 4 other clubs) for round one (still a fab effort) and yes, 2 rungs above Brissy (another plus). However, to have a good chance of winning you also need to perform in the uncontested of course. And unfortunately we came stone motherless last in the comp on this one, Brissy smashing us in 2nd place with their run and spread. Brissy's effective disposal percentage cacked on us as well, coming in an amazing 2nd behind the Coasters, with us sitting in equal last alongside the Cats (maybe this is actually a positive ? ) http://www.afl.com.au/statistics/tabid/73/default.aspx#page=team&year=2012&roundid=1085&fixtureid=0&teamid=31

Spot on. Only problem is, if he gets a clearance or receives one, he tends to butcher it no matter where he is on the field. But i'd still like him to be given a chance through the middle. Not sure about 10 weeks lol. Maybe 6 max. But couldn't do much worse than Sylvia or Beamer through there at this point.

A better leap and better "tap to advantage" ruckman. Might not get as many taps but i believe his tap "to advantage" percentage would exceed those of Jamar since the big Rush's return from injury last year. I could be wrong here though as i haven't checked the stats lol. Agree that skills are also better down below than Jamar and has more agility and speed when he receives or gets the ball through traffic in the middle. Slowly blood Stef as the main man, and Jamar as 2nd string until Fitzy/Gawn are ready over next few years. Rush seems to have lost the little leap he once had prior to injury and half a yard (not that he was ever super quick i realise...but he's now super slow). Gets plenty of tap outs but not enough (percentage wise) to advantage to make a decent impact anymore. Opposing ruckmen (on the weekend) got less tap outs but more to advantage than Rush did. Still a serviceable ruckman but Stef the go to from here for mine.

This is an obvious but nonetheless critical point Mono I was saying all through that third to bro..."Most of them just aren't working hard enough when we don't have the ball". But that's been a common theme for quite some time now. Usually we get away with it, to some degree, against lessor lights like Brissy. But against the big boys you normally get shown up big time in this area if you don't put in the 2nd and 3rd efforts and intensity. Unfortunately the 2nd half was so bad on Saturday, we even allowed a lessor light team to show us up in this area. This comes back to the "hunger" factor and how badly many of the established crew really want to be successful or are just happy to swan their way through the year and get their juicy pay packet. If they aren't wiling or able to step up to the plate, and the next 6 to 8 weeks will hopefully show who's up to it and who isn't, then we just have to ring in the changes with those that are as hungry as hell from below such as Magner, Couch, Strauss, Dunn, Sellar and others if they've earned it. And not just a 2 to 3 match opportunity either. Unless they totally bomb, we need to offer incoming players a fair string of matches to find the pace of the game, a little confidence and hopefully cement their place in the team. It's time to put a rocket up many of the established crew, some of whom are way too comfy and sitting nice and cosy in their regular spots week after week but just don't have the passion/desire for the contest (or maybe the ability/agility to get there often enough...whatever the factor is) any longer. I'm sure Neeldy & Co. are on top of all this. The big broom's a comin' me thinks!

A must if we're to have any success up forward in the medium term IMO. Martin into the ruck roaming across HF / HB as WYL (or RPFC) suggested. Jamar off the bench to rest Martin...or run with the 2nd tall such as Cox when required. Or even rest him at CHB as a protective wall or let him run around at KC when the 2 talls aren't required. Wasted in the middle and has no spring anymore, making most of his taps neutral at best. Too cumbersome when the ball hits the deck after the center bounce as well, Martin has better hands and reflexes IMO. In summary..... 1. Fix the spine (Clarke to CHF & Martin into the middle to start). 2. Get two outside class mids and find a better inside one than what we already have (maybe Magner) . 3. Get a small crumbing forward. We then have ourselves the bare bones of a potentially competitive football team that we can then build the rest of our list around. Until we do this we are just gonna be on the receiving end of more and more pain and woe...for many years to come. That's just my take

Personally i'd be waiting 6 to 8 rounds before trying to "call" a new trend or change in the game. The opening round can often see the "young colt" teams starting in a rush. The hardness of the bigger bodied senior guys banging in etc as the year wears on might see a totally different dynamic to the style of game we see in 8 or 10 weeks versus what we see in these first few weeks.

Same Norm. One of the few forward players that bobs up when the chips are down...or when the goings good. Sticks it to the opponents and doesn't take a backward step either. Does do some silly things at times for sure which lets himself and the team down and needs to eliminate such acts. But knows how to position himself and reads the play better than most in our forward line (other than Jurrah when he's on....and if he ever returns). Can kick a goal from anywhere within 55 meters as well. Few other players in our team can take a serious roost from 50 or just beyond (from a set shot) and have a decent chance of making it. Also knows where the goals are within 30 or so and on the move. Not a superstar or A grader but better value than most of the other forwards in the list at this point. This wouldn't be the case in many other teams lists i realise but this is where our list is at.

A promotion to the leadership group maybe? I heard Neeldy dragged him to tell him the good news I'm sure they have, otherwise they wouldn't be doing their job. But i'm specifically talking about a new role....as an outside mid specialist...and that's it (a la Burgoyne). Eg., "This is what we want and expect from you 'for the team' over the next 6 weeks (or whatever). It's this or you're off to KC for a very long time or maybe worse mate". That sorta thing. You're no doubt closer to the reality than i am in your assessment. I just saw "something" there on Saturday, however brief and yes it was offset by other poor efforts i realise. But while there's life...there's always hope....at least till we can find a classy outside mid to fill that much needed role....IF putting him there happened to work that is. And if it did work and he turns his career around (a la Neon Leon), hec he's only 27. What if we got 3 more good years if he performs or maybe even a better trade next year if he doesn't quite get there but at least redeems himself to a more respectable standard? Better than what we might get value wise right now. 6 weeks. That's all i'm suggesting. No harm in trying surely? Who else do we have waiting in the wings that could perform that sort of role?

I assume your talking bout Davey Old Dee. I'd set him one more challenge for the next 6 weeks and see what he's got. Mid field outlet/run with man (not forward or back.....mid field!). Set KPI's/benchmarks. He meets them and performs and hopefully finds a niche late in his career, or he doesn't and ends up down at KC...maybe permanently. At least we know we tried everything and gave him every opportunity to turn things around.

Nice summary. Blease needs to be given at least 3 to 4 more chances at half back before demotion IMO. If i can just add..... I would bring Dunn in for Green. We also need other 'run with' players to go with Priddis and to rest Barty off Kerr when needed. Maybe we sacrifice Moloney (if he has the legs) or just rotate Moloney/Jones/Bail onto Priddis as well as onto Kerr to give Barty a rest as required. Barty can't be expected to counter Kerr all day, just too good and so strong through the bod and hips. The other option might be education. What better way for young players to be shown where to run and how to position themselves than rotating off Kerr to assist Barty. I'm thinking Bail and Magner here. Big ask and no doubt we'd lose on the match up (probably lose no matter who we put on him) but what have we got to lose, and they'll gain plenty from this.

The ONLY option at this point for me is as first ruck. However, your roaming role might not hurt after the center bounce either. A roving ruckman through the middle. Takes the centre bounce and utilise him afterwards in a roaming role. Ocassionally resting up forward in the goal square to relieve Petterd/Dunn/Jurrah (if he ever makes it back). Seems to have the tank and agility to handle the responsibility here. He runs rings around a lumbering opponent in the middle once the ball hits the ground. Nice agility through traffic in the middle, good hands and delivers the ball quite well in most cases to a player in a better position. And he has a monster leap, as we saw against the Roos in Rnd 8 last year, where he nearly kicked Goldsteins' head off....twice (at least i think it was Goldstein). Jamar is just TOOOOO SLOOOOOW once the ball comes to ground in the middle (which it does most of the time because>>>) as he is no longer (post injury comeback) able to get high enough off the ground to tap to OUR advantage as much as he was once able to. In many cases he runs through/under the center bounce now, missing the entire contest completely. A HUUUGE advantage to any half decent opposing ruckman, let alone A graders like Cox and Sandilands. Jamar's still servicable sure, but a shadow of his former self (pre-injury). Had a nice close up look at Clark on the weekend. have seen him on TV a few times in the past with Brissy. Not much to go on i guess but IMO he's without doubt being played in the wrong posi. CHF and 2nd ruck to Martin IMO. His tank and agility are completely wasted at FF. Poor move to try and turn him into something he isn't on Neeld & Co's part me thinks and will only end up frustrating the crap out of him and waste what could be a great talent at CHF (back up ruckman). Particularly given how we murder the delivery i50. Let alone getting it i30 in a decent fashion and on enough occasions lol. Only 1 game i realise and happy to be proven wrong. Time will tell.

Prior to his injury time out, looked like he was gonna be an absolute gun. Played taller than his height would suggest and was a marking machine with an ability to climb over a taller opponent to spoil/ or mark. After the come back, he's only shown small patches of this early form and promise. Intensity and attack at the ball just isn't there anymore on a consistent basis. And yes, he has plenty of friends in this area atm. A left field thought here....might be time to try a complete change up. Ask him to play a half forward role (certainly NOT a KF role however) at Casey for 5 to 6 weeks. Have someone coach and watch him a little (eg., Lyon/Ox....someone with forward pedigree). Take him out of his comfort zone and see how he handles it. Along with many senior mates, his AFL career is in the balance IMO and he'll need to do something special or different for the remainder of the season if he hopes to continue with the MFC under Neeld post 2012. Feel free to can this idea with plenty of vitriol lol. I'm not necessarily sold on it as such myself.....just putting it out there.

Spot on RP. But intensity and 2nd efforts etc have to be a non negotiable bare minimum. Casey where deserved for the under-performers (after they've been given a fair chance to demonstrate that they've learned the new style/roles they've been set) if they don't hit their benchmarks or beyond over set time frames/limits.

Nicely put Twister. Exactly what i was asking bro yesterday as we got pummeled time and again from the clearances. Why isn't Davey being played through the middle (outside)? No class, poise, pace or silky skills outside....even on the rare occasions we managed first possession at the inside contests. Davey actually showed glimpes of his former self yesterday, but the rest as many have said, was pretty average....for his usual standard and experience. Put him into the middle as an outside link man and also an occasional inside when he needs to go. Make him earn it and get him involved so he has no option and has nowhere to hide. He loves getting the ball (yes he's mostly a receiver) but once he gets it he's one of the few players in our team who can escape in traffic and find his way through to a lead up option up forward or further outside. And even if he cant find a lead up he at least drives the ball to advantage in some cases, without bombing it on top of the forward's heads like our other mids. Green.....only option i can see here is to rotate off the bench out of the square in short stints. Elsewhere he just doesn't have the pace or tank (outside of his initial spurt) to chase down as you said when we don't have the ball. Not saying he isn't trying. Just past playing anywhere beyond 40 from goal now on the hit up. Beamers not gone by a long way IMO. You can't kick last years top brownlow voter and B&F out for good after only one poor game. Some time downstairs might not hurt either but as someone said here, drop him and then our other mids get hard tagged. But unless he's fed the ball with some great ruck tap work, he's in a bit of trouble getting to the contest and finding the ball enough times to provide an impact. No significant 2nd/3rd efforts after the initial one. Not saying he doesn't try, and he isn't alone, but just not able to impact often enough AFTER that first effort. Needs to change his build IMO. We all know he's a strong man upstairs, no question. But look to change him from being so top heavy to getting more speed/power, agility and drive through the hips and legs. If he's going to go to another level before it's too late in his career, this is a must i reckon. Stagnating atm.

Hopefully a few other things dropped as well

Poor Good Times....on the end of a stray Biffo Biff! Too funny

Who was the idiot on here that predicted we'd crack 45,000+ members last week anyway? Wasn't me i swear!!

Agree, however from the little we saw of him last year, he plays much better in a running role/link man off HB spotting up leads.

6. Magner (Lead early when there was little leadership being shown, other than Trenners.) 5. 4. Trengove (his impact petered out in the 2nd half along with most of his team mates...at least 2 pre seasons away from being a solid 4 quarter contender) 3. Martin (Jamar out - Martin in as the main ruckman from here. Jamar just not adding any value after the bounce and not much more at the bounce) 2. Bail (Average but did a few ok things. A "just" pass given the woeful performance from most of the remaining bananas in this bunch) 1. Watts (needs to commit to the contest/attack the ball/& carrier with more ferocity and stick more tackles. Has a number of friends here but most have more games under their belt and no longer have the "rooky' excuse. At least 2 pre seasons away from playing out 4 quarters and having a significant impact with a body which is capable of doing these things week in and week out. A mighty long wait but willing to be patient, provided he starts showing more ferocity in his general attack on the ball and carrier in the coming year or 2). Worst part of today.... The reality that we haven't even got 1 superstar/gun/A Grader that can influence the outcome of a game, other than maybe Sylvia (on an occasional blue moon and only then if the mood takes him) and the fact that i still cant see any potential A graders on the horizon. (Trengove/Watts maybe in 2 to 3 years time...but that feels over the horizon at this point and simply not enough "in a numbers sense" to take us anywhere significant). When does Gary Ablett's contract expire again??

I think so. The look on his face said it all. I think this year was always going to be a year of sorting the wheat from the chaff as far as Neeld & Co. were concerned re: who they wanted to retain from here and who/what type of player they would need to look for going into 2013 and beyond. I don't think even he expected the serious sorting to start happening quite this early though

Can someone with a smarter footy brain than i please explain to me why Barty (who's supposedly our best hard tagger) wasn't moved onto Rich early in the 3rd as he started to break the game open for the Lions?? I realise there were other players (Black etc) who also needed to be closed down but to me Rich was their "main man" who started most of the run and line breaking etc. Yet we continued to persist with the same Barty match up

Hasn't performed anywhere near his standard before the injury last year. Must be a real worry for Neeld & FD. One dimensional at the center bounces, most of the time he wins the contest he brings the ball to his feet which is mostly an "at best" neutral outcome for us. Doesn't tap (or punch!) to advantage often enough and mostly the ball ends up at his feet. No class around him to tap to in today's team anyway. Beamer et al, still bombing in hope i50 (or tumble punting the ball towards boundary line) etc. Need to move Martin into the middle from next week if we're to have any chance of winning a few games and provide some hope and develop the mid field (both players/new & old as well as the game style) in a positive (WINNING) manner from here. I would bring Fitzy in to replace Jamar from here. Jamar's a liability at this point. Fitzy far from ready, and doesn't necessarily offer a better alternative (maybe worse lol), but needs AFL game time/experience and for Neeld/FD to see what he "might" be able to offer us at this level. Jamar needs to go back to the VFL and try to find his old form (hopefully). I don't say this just on today's game either. Jamar just hasn't shown anything since his return. He's had enough opportunities already IMO and isn't progressing. P.S. Where's his contested marking ability gone? (not alone!)

Too one dimensional, too predictable and too slow with long bombs continually going from HBF to HFF and in many cases losing the pill there only to see it come "fast" rebounding back over the press out the back for a relatively easy Lion goal. No poise or kicking to advantage (or hitting up regular lead up targets) coming inside 50, not enough clearances from the middle. When we did clear around the middle or HF to i50, we mostly just kicked it high in panick and hope. Same as last year, same players doing the same old. Brisbane dominated clearances, spread, run and carry once the ball was brought to ground, which was most of the time, especially around our HF line. The only way to win that sort of game style (ie., losing control of the game when the ball hits the ground after an aerial pack contest following long bombs) is to dominate in the contested marking contests within those packs or instead, don't bomb it and instead look to continually hit up leading targets around the ground. The other alternative is to run it off HB, spread and carry, break lines and linkup to score goals on the run and counter their run and carry with an attacking style of game. We either did none of these things or tried (long bombs hoping for contested marks maybe...or alternatively to win the stopages thereafter?) and failed much more than we succeeded. In addition, after half time, we were either unwilling or unable to work hard enough (when we didn't have the ball) to pressure the ball carrier to cause turnovers anywhere near the standard required at this level. Pressure on the ball carrier after half time.... not AFL standard. Maybe 3 to 5 players walked off with an "ok" game under their belt after today, maybe 1 and at best 2 of those could say they showed something (Magner being one... 0 AFL games!).

No As obvious a "holding the ball" as i've ever seen, nothing else happening within 10 meters to distract the umpires eye either. And the 2nd man "over the mark" in the forward pocket ....TWICE....after Clarke's first goal was disallowed and a replay ordered. Umpire went missing in both cases. But also, where were Melbourne's players remonstrating to the umpire to pull that 2nd lion further away from the mark against Clarke?? Top clubs players do this often and do it with passion, they don't lie down and just accept poor umpiring, they let the umpires know about it big time. We allow ourselves to be dominated by everyone on the field, including the umps. We are not even close to doing the little things that the top clubs do "on the field" at this point in so many aspects, this being just one minor part.