Maldonboy38

You've written my post Stuie. I do not want him sacked at all but there seems to be a lack of leadership at present. When will someone at Melbourne get angry with the heartless tripe we revert to so often? I want to see Bails coach us out of this coasting, pedestrian limp football. I have had a gutfull. I do not expect more than 10 wins this year but I expect some ticker and some grunt. .

6- Bail. Officially my favourite Dees player. Love his pace and hard work. In those horrible oments of the 3rd adn last quarter he was the only one still running. 5- Tapscott. Great to have himn in the team tongiht. Yep, a few clangers in the 3rd quarter but kicking to stationary targets is difficult for anyone. 4- Martin. Contested marking, running down smaller opponents, kicking vastly improved. 3- Rivers. Some of the Hawks misses in 1st half came from his defensive pressure. Not creative but worked really hard. 2- Sylvia. He is the best footballer at our club but he cabn't be on-ball for four quarters. Only help was from Bail. 1- Watts. ran all night. Led with class. Crashed packs and tackled well (at times) .

I hardly know where to begin. I am not expecting mircles this year but game plan improvement and at least a red-hot-go. Bailey's mantra has been "win more quarters than your opposition". His mantra failed tonight. We were thrashed in but one quarter. TEAM Backline structure at kick-ins was embarrassing. Repeating the same sequence six times in a row in third quarter and not working once. Backline coach needs a rod hot poker shoved somewhere. And how SLOW do we get our kick-ins started??? We were murdered at ground level. First, not one forward roved a pack well all night and we chose to use our known small forward as a sub. At times a player was in the right spot but standing bloody still and the mobile Hawks carried it away with disgusting ease. Second, so many times tonight, Jamar got his hand on it and it was instantly two Hawks to one Dee player, and within one second it was three Hawks to one Dee or four to two. The stoppages showed we do not know how to set up against a strong midfield and we don't know how to play out from a stoppage. Front runners only on a fast break. Endeavour. Do you remember some of those really light, no-grunt games we played under Daniher where we showed our skill but no ticker? Some of our players tonight ran OK, and the second quarter was thrilling, but that gut running, team building, " I wanna run through wall" feel was never there tonight. This was the saddest thing. No ticker. Watts and Jurrah led well at times tonight but our mids seemed unwilling to kick to a 50/50 involving these guys one-on-one. When they did kick it to them the kick was of such poor quality possession was impossible. How many times tonight did Jack Watts lead well to be ignored, or to have the ball delivered to him 1 metre from the boudary line after there was time enough for two oppenents to close his space? The ease at which the Hawks got it out of their defence was also embarrassing. They used the southern wing as if it was a desert - no Dees plays within Cooee, often overlapping in waves of three on one. INDIVIDUALS Jetta - too many errors at vital moments. Needs a number of weeks at Casey. Frawley - a really bad game from a great player. Needs match fitness desperately. Bartram - outclassed by Rioli (actually Rioli outclassed every Dee opponent he played on) Grimes reads the ball so well, has great courage and marks brilliantly for his size. But I am beginning to conclude he can't kick and this could place a shadow over his effectiveness. .

Maric barely had a chance and actually did a couple of good things with some hard running in the last quarter. Can't drop him on the basis of tonight. Whose stupid idea was it to use a forward pocket as a sub??? Out Jetta - made too many mistakes at crucual times of the game. In - Gysberts or Wonna if either fit enough. If Garland is injured how about Tom MacDonald? Please, pleae, please no Juice!!! Icouldn't stomach this. .

I was at the game tonight and the kick-ins were embarrassing. My wife, who is British and does not understand all the nuances of the game, asked me at the end of the game "why in the 3rd quarter did we keep kicking it to the same spot for the same bad result?" My youngest boy is 10 and even he was yelling out "they did it again". And, as much as I love Jack Grimes, his kicking needs work. His kicks are either ill directed, or so easy to read that other teams cut them off. Do we have an option "B", or is it kick it Jamar and hope it ends up no worse than 50/50? However, to give Grimes, Davey and Tappy a bit of a break, if someone would run and make a lead rather than waving their hands in the air like Kieren Perkins in the milk commercial, it would at least give us a chance. The only real constant lead was from Watts. I was really frustrated tonight. For me to be silent at the footy is rare but I spent most of the second half grumbling into my beard about our lack of kick-in planning. .

Very funny Wrathchild - didn't see it coming and a good description of a person in front of a computer with Rose coloured glasses.

Col G to Buddy. Col is beginning to show signs of Dustin Fletcher in his younger days (without the kicking and elbowing of opponents). However, I don't reckon this matchup is the key to the game. Frawley to Roughie. If the Dees can get this matchup this is a huge + for us. Roughie can be brilliant or foul with no in-between. Frawley's run and turning defence into attach could really show up Roughead. Martin to Hale. Stef to continue his great 2011 form. Bartram to Rioli. Does Barts have enough quick-thinking and quick-stepping to match Rioli? I am not too sure we have a good match for Rioli, but maybe Jetta. In the Guts Burgoyne could cause us problems in a similar way to how Goodes always does. Burgoyne is a tall-ish, powerful midfielder and will be too tall for Bail. Pity Jordie ins't playing. Jones to run with Mitchell. Mitchell gets a lot of ball across Hawks half back, andif Jonesy can get a few touches could mean 2 goals for us. This is a great matchup for us except that Jonesy MUST have contact every time Mitchell is on the ground. If Hodge plays half back maybe Dunn to make him accountable. Yep - agree with this. If Hawks don't do something about Sylvia and Trenners, this duo could seriously damage them. Both in good form and are a cut above Bateman, etc... To win this game our half forward line must be super-aggressive and hold the ball in, maybe even play on them man-on-man. The Hawks love their half backs to get heaps of free ball and set up play. Green, Watts, Dunn, Petterd, Maric, Bennell are the key for us scoring enough to win. Tappy on Bruce. Show him what he left and is missing out on. For the record - I hate the Hawks. They have stuffed up so many of our first rounds, and their 2008 arrogance almost matches Essendon's 2000 arrogance. I am sick of average footballers like Ladson, Young and Ellis carving us up without pressure or pain. Not this year. .

I am in the same boat as you Gotzy. Love Jonesy to death. And I appreciate that he had to be the number one or two midfielder for 2 years or so when he was still developing, and few others would take the pack-hits and help him out. He also bleeds red and blue and would be great to have around the club. 1. What is his role in the team?? Tagger/stopper. He can really concentrate for long periods and can tackle brutally. His first three or four steps are quite quick and because he positions himself so well, he is close enough to close down most players he runs with. Rohan Bail needs to be encouraged to run and carry, something Jones shouldn't do too much of. 2. Is he too slow for modern day football? No. You need up to 4 super-quick players. Most of the others can be of average quick speed, and 2 or so can be slower and given specific roles. Many slower guns running around in the AFL (e.g. Mitchell, Hayes, Baker, ) 3. does his poor disposal lead to too many turnovers that put our players pushing forward under pressure defensively? Yes. Actually, he is at his most accurate when shooting for goal on the run, which many others find it difficult to do. However, his turnovers are usually founded on poor decision making rather than poor disposal. He gets tackled so often at the point of kicking the ball. 4. Should we expect more from a guy whos now been in the system since 2006 and is part of the leadership group? No. The FD can see great merit in his place in the team so let them persevere a while. .

In the past you got the sense Stef would go where instructed, kick and handball to plan but was not intuitive about the essentials when in the middle of game play. He could spoil and defend a space adequately. Glimpses throughout the NAB cup/challenge series, and then dramtically on Sunday, Stef demonstrated important steps in his development: An awareness of team mates using his peripheral vision in anticiaption of what to do when he got the ball Sidestepping around opponents to dispose of the ball with the best option not only the first option Strong, deliberate marking both contested and uncontested(this really highlighted Paul Johnson's inability to do this) General football awareness. He is quickly stepping out from being another athlete who can play footy a bit, into being a genuine footballer. He still has a bit of work to do, and if he ever has to stand an aopponent like Goodes, Franklin, either of the 2 Riewoldts, it will clearly show he has more improvement to make, but he has genuinely surprised me and I can't wait to see what he brings to the Dees across the 22 hone and away games. Two points: Hard work at training can make a big difference Our coaching staff are real teacher and educators. Maybe we don't give them enough credo and they deserve more. .

6 - Moloney 5 - Trengove 4 - Sylvia 3 - Bennell 2 - Martin 1 - Garland I see that titan-uranus has MacDonald in his best 6. titan, you must have been taking crack at the time. His disposal and decision making today were horrible. Up until today I was struggling to find the right place for Moloney in my starting 22 but he led us to that draw through guts and composure. Great game. .

In the preseason, there were a number of topics and posts highlightiing our lack of natural skill in our backline. There is no lack in our backmen GETTING to a contest - but the skills coming out of defence to set up attacks was a worry in the NAB cup and challenge matches. It is only round one, but this trend was on show for all the other clubs to see today. You know our defence had a bad skills day when one of the best users of the ball is Bartram. He actually played his role well today but as for the others, their lack of skill was hihjlighted. Tapscott was excellent in defence and it was great to see his ball use. MacDonald - turned into trouble, handballed into trouble and kicked very poorly. Rivers - his efficiency rate for every skill today would be at about 40% Garland - did his job (eventually) on Goodes but even he bad a number of bad decisions. Grimes - excellent at everything except disposal. Two suggestions: 1. Our midfielders have to move a lot more so our backline do not have to continually kick to stationary targets near the boundary line. This lack of movement and options increasses the probability of clangers and restricts the defender's options. 2. We must get games in to Gysberts, Blease and Strauss. We cannot advance too far without an increase in backline kicking skills. Thoughts? .

Green - just good enough Jones - please don't kick (exxcept for goal) Watts - angry pills required Bennell - great in patches Trengove - quality and poise Sylvia - strong and dynamic Dunn - finishing needs work Petterd - in starting 18 Grimes- prolific but wasteful Maric - ordinary all day Garland - did his job Moloney - tough and prolific Jurrah - needs to defend Rivers - worst on ground McDonald - limited and wasteful Martin - turned into footballer Tapscott - mongrel and skill Davey - beaten on the day Jetta - better every game Jamar - great ruckman's game Bail - never eally in it

Our kicking for goal was a off, especially from 10 minutes in the last quarter through to the final siren. Even Jamar and Dunny! But Sydney were just as bad. I don't think this one thing cost us the game but it contributed. How can we spend so much time training and then kick the ball this badly? The mistakes under pressure are understandable and I can't criticise it, especially against Sydney. But the kicking off the half back line was terrible until the last quarter. MacDonald and Grimes looked at times as if they were aiming for opposition players, and as for poor old Jared Rivers, that has to be one of his worst performances ever. Perhaps it is just the round one cobwebs, but I reckon the clanger count will be between 20 - 30 just from our backmen.

Half our team showed below average kicking skills today but Grimes had a shocker. His reading of the play - oustanding. Courage - outstanding Contested marking - outstanding. Hitting a target - really poor. .

Right on the eve of the season - THIS. This would deflate morning glory!!! However, because he is still developing it is not a massive blow. The mongrel is that pace is our major asset and he is super quick and super intense at the contest. Bail, Gysbert or Tapscott to replace him. But I am getting sick of our injury-plagued starts to seasons. I need a cup of coffee... no, a whiskey... no, an Irish coffee. .

This year = 10-12 wins with some wins we didn't expect and some losses that make us angry. Jetta, Bennell, Blease, Tapscott, Strauss and especially Gysberts have to be given game time. Our midfield will be OK when all are fit and play games week after week together. But our back six is great in getting the ball; we just can't get through the press zone relying on the skills of Bartram, MacDonald etc... We give oppositions the ability to easily re-nter inside 50 by un-pressured turnovers. We need backmen who have grunt AND skill, more like Chip and Grimes. I want finals. We may make it. We have a great list. But we need the skills of Bennell, Jetta, Strauss etc... moving through our backline to stop the unforced errors. .

Two very different teams probably vying for a similar position on the ladder. Stef Martin should go to Goodes but he can't. Goodes has an incredible footy brain - always runs to the right spot at the right time, and has those small touches and body-contact moments that put opponents out of position quickly. Martin's game is based on his althleticism, he is not a natural footballer. Goodes will cut him up like a hot knife through butter. I love Jonesy but he is too small, Goodes will kill him in the air. Could Joel Macdonald keep up with him pace wise? Although our midfields are of an almost even strength, we are quicker, but Sylvia is the man here. He is an explosive power footballer and I cannot see a Sydney player able to curb him. Our sub - Bennell or Bail. Someone to come on half way through the 3rd quarter and show up their lack of pace. Dees by 18 - 25 points .

Great post Bhima. A lot of food for thought. Bailey does have a game plan, and he and the assistant coaches can adapt it when the opposition is on a roll. I don't see any glaring weakness in our set up or plan. Our biggest problem is that very first instinctive movement or act from many of our ball-getting players. It is either a second too slow, or the wrong choice to make. We don't have any problems getting out hands on the pill in the first place: it is the instinctive decision making from too many of our players that leads to trouble, rather than setting up attack. How many times on this site have we lamented those dreadful suicide handballs, or that quick handball to the defensive side of the pack only to see it miss its target by 2 metres and land in the hands of the opposition? Or the un-pressured kick from half back going anywhere but on target? Bartram, Jones, Rivers & Moloney are great ball winners but we don't want the ball in thier hands too long or too often. Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Blease, Watts, Tapscott, Grimes, Jetta, Bennell, Bail (if he can get his kicking right) - we want these blokes to be the main players, to help out Sylvia, Green and Davey who can't stand on their own much longer. No game plan works with turnovers and dumb decision making. Yes, we need our grunt players but only if they can effectively feed our game-makers. .

Can't agree more, High Tower. Although there have been better footballers, Goodes at his best and Kouta at his best were simply unstoppable. Tall, athletic, quick, amazing skills, goal kicker, can crash a pack - yep, the whole package. To call him an overrated spud is simple envy. Can you imagine him in a Dees jumper. Shivers down the spine. .

Haven't been near a computer in 3 days - so I immediately visit good old 'Land to get up to date and .... NEWTON IS ELEVATED!!!! I am not much of a swearing man but if anything makes me want to, it is this. @#$%*$!! Newton does have the skills and brains to play at AFL level but will not push through his natural abilities and extend himself into that zone required by athlete athletes, or in this case, elite footballers. I have never seen him push and extend himslef in a game. At VFL level he is able to rely on his natural ability and he therefore excels. AFL requires an application of will, and an ability to continue when feeling beaten or exhausted and in this he has shown to be really poor. Bad decision Melbourne. One poster wrote that there is one position up for grabs between Stef Martin and Newton. If we use our substitue position between these two blokes our chances of winning reduce immediately by 5 - 10%. Other clubs, especially the good ones will plan around the lack of intensity provided by these two. I am not knocking Stef Martin and I have him in as the sub for my round 1 team, but he also needs to demonstrate that he can push his limits if he wants to succeed. If you reckon I am slightly annoyed.. you are right. .

I am really struggling to figure out what the AFL clubs, including Melbourne, are looking for in the pre-season matches, be they NAB cup or NAB challenge games. In the media, Nick Reiwoldt, that injured Collingwobble defender and even the flawed-Messiah James Hird have stated something like "we are not aiming to win the NAB cup". We hear all the reasons spun by clubs like: [*]getting games into the young guys [*]practicing our structures [*]getting everyone match fit [*]seeing who will step up this year [*]etc... In reality, it appears as if none of these are true. In some games, some clubs have put their best side in each week. Sydney rarely even attempt to win. Our pre-eseason form last year did not simulate our real season game-play at all. St. Kilda the other night were not going hard at many contest (Lenny Hayes was not beaten - he just didn't go at it like he usually does). I didn't see any of the Melbourne/Lions game today but by reading the posts of those who were at the game you would think our backline was practising all things not to do during the regular season. Any ideas of what the pre-season is for?

Great to see this topic. Too much other speculative debate/argument over possibilities and potential Premiers for '11: Pies (unfortunately) but Bulldogs looking good. Wooden Spoon: Gold Coast Most Goals for Demons: Jurrah - 60 Leading Goalkicker in AFL: Buddy Franklin Brownlow: Brendon Goddard Final Ladder position: 8th Wins: 12 Most tackles: Jordie McKenzie Most marks: Colin Garland Most handballs: Nathan Jones Most 1%'s: Brent Moloney Best first year player: Lucas Cook Bluey: Colin Sylvia Biggest crowd: 90,000 Queen's Birthday Worst Journo: Caroline Wilson Best Journo: Gerard Whately (annoying voice but very good journo) Biggest news story: Footballer outs himself over honosexuality (non story for me - non issue) Quote of the season: "We won more quarters than we lost in 2011" - Dean Bailey. I hope he changes his mantra soon. This one of Bail's is driving me nuts.

1. Addam Maric is definitely our first pick small forward for 2011 2. We need 2 more backmen who can kick. Grimes can't do it all, Bartram is really improving but for Rivers, Warnock, McDonald I am screeming "Darren Gaspar" on the inside! We must presevere with Strauss even if it means learning through a couple of losses that we should have won. 3. I HATE Essendon. I agree about the comment above about bringing Matty Whelan back to run through Hird in the coaches box this time, and can someone please kidnap Matthew Lloyd next time we play the Dons and keep him away from the microphone.

Our midfield has some issues but we can't give a great v poor tag until we see them in up to 5 games of the regular season. However, like many Dees supporters, it is unlikely that Jones, Moloney, McKenzie and Tapscott can ALL survive alongside Scully, Davey, Trengove, Grimes Sylvia etc... Look at the Saints. They have the super-grunt work horse in Lenny Hayes surrounded by a group of midfielders who bring a different set of strengths - Del Santo, Montagna, Armitage, and then of course Goddard. For mine, I can't see Beamer maintaining his place long term. I love the bloke: what he does with the new recruits, his love for the red and blue, his in your face attitude. But his emphasis on the ground has one dimension - in and under. His long kicking that I used to think was such a strength has become his weakness because the other teams read hinm like a book and drop defenders into the 60m hole when he gets the ball. Gysberts will take Beamer's place permanently by the end of this year or earaly in 2012 not as a replacement like-for-like but simply as a better all round footballer. Can you imagine him with another 6-8kgs on his frame? Jones has shown he can learn and if he can break out of the idea that he can shrug off all tacklers he will improve out of sight. O, I almost forgot Rohan Bail. What position(s) he will play I do not know but he has a huge upside that is relatively untouched. His aggression and run make his utility attributes enormous on the scale of potential.

I started this thread because Trengove appears to have an unassuming manner, but also an unassuming public profile. It doesn't seem that other teams plan how to play him, whereas I reckon they plan for Davey, Green, Jurrah and Frawley. Maybe other Dees players haven't yet earned closer scrutiny adn study from other teams. Some players have natural grunt - Jones, McKenzie, Bail Some players look like duds early on but grow slowly into AFL standard footballers. Jamar, Watts, Garland Others have a sense of balance and poise from day 1, and these players are usually taken note of from the first. Trengove is one of these players with natural poise and balance yet doesn't seem to have drawn the targeted plans of other teams. However, if he plays in the NAB cup round 2 game with the skill and execution he showed against Port, the fovus of other teams radar may switch very quickly.