binman

Look i'm over it Jnr. I couldn't really care less anymore. But honestly i don't understand how you can see things so black and white, no pun intended. Yes the pies took 7 marks in their forward 50 and yes Cox and Grundy smashed us. But honestly, i don't mean to be rude but it just way to simplistic to simply blame the defenders for this. They were poor as it turns out. Only jetta of the back six got close to a pass mark. The rest were average particularly Hibberd, Tmac and Hunt. Ironically enough despite this we still kept them to under 100 points (just) and once again couldn't muster a winning score. But for god's sake the midfield pressure was appalling in the first quarter, when all the damage was done. Woeful. We were down 10 contested possessions at quarter time. Ten!. We were at least that many tackles down. We didn't lay our first tackle until the 20 minute mark of the fist quarter. 20 minutes of AFL football without a single tackle! We only laid 3 for the whole first quarter. Unforgivable. Grundy smashed us? No wonder given Gawn barely could stay with him all day. Gawn's defensive pressure was appalling. His job is to ensure the opposition ruckman don't swan in their forward line and get easy marks. Martin also toweled him up. I just hope injury is to blame. There is lot of love for lever on this site and i'm also keen to get him. But their defence gave up 100 points against a low scoring side and were dominated in the first half. Was that because they their defence as poor? No of course not. It was because as we could all see, like us against the pies, the crows simply did not apply anywhere near enough pressure all over the ground, but particularly through the mid field. Lever won't help a jot if we play like we did last Saturday. And if we don't bring the required pressure every game we also won't fully benefit from his real skill which is his intercept marking. Like Rance he is at his most dangerous when the opposition are forced to kick under pressure into their 50 like we were by Brisbane and the Pies. Such kicks rarely hit targets or go to a forwards advantage and are easy picking for players like Lever, Rance and dare i say it Howe. Sides putting more pressure on than us than we do on them mean that it is not just down back we get out marked. We got out marked all over the bloody ground for the last 9 games of thew season. But sure Jnr blame the defenders, in particular the talls. And let yourself believe that lever will fix our problems. Knock yourself out. For me i'd rather take a more nuanced, dare i say it modern approach to analysing what the problem is and therefore what the solution might be. As Goody will be no doubt. I think a really good question is the one BB alludes to above. Is our zone system the right one? And the corollary does our game plan measure up? Our game plan completely depends on manic pressure. As we have seen since the dogs game any drop off in that pressure exposes our zone defence, in part because as BB notes it allows teams to move the ball quickly through the corridor. Lever will help no doubt as he will cut off some attacks but we saw in the crows wc game it still won't be enough if we don't apply sufficient all team pressure. The other problem with our game plan and aggressive zoning is that poor disposal and turnovers exposes us on the rebound, much more so than say the pies or teams with less aggressive zones. Buckley has been often been criticized for not being tactically savy or up with modern approaches. An example is he plays a much more traditional man on man defence. But the advantage of that approach is that it offers protection against quick ball movement and turnovers as defenders are better placed to avoid getting caught in no man's land. We saw this on Saturday when they were able to stymie us and not allow forward space even when we moved the ball quickly. Dunn thrives on this approach and played really well on Saturday. I really wonder if Goody's game plan is the right one. It is very taxing and depends on having players who do not tun the ball over a lot. But i also wonder if our wretched run with injuries should be factored in when assessing its effectiveness as should the fact that it is far from bedded down and is work in progress. I hate to say it but Richmond are playing exactly the game we aspire too. Manic pressure all over the ground. Pressure that means sides dump kick into their forward half and often into the tigers hands. Intense forward pressure that traps the ball there. Aggressive zone defence. Unusual forward leading patterns. Cross the ball and hold it until there is an opening and then move the ball super fast and run in waves. Hard gut running, particularly defensive running. But they have a great run with injury and have by in large better users of the a ball. Still they are the template for us. And i expect we will look to use that template. But i'm out. I'm not going to comment any more on this topic. Let's agree to disagree and move on to trade rumours and who to draft.

Which really doesnt make sense. As a dees supporter he would be all too aware of how crap we are

Yep. Spot on. To the easy oppo goals you can add all the blown scoring opportunities when players miss easy clear targets in the forward 50 and/or not kicking it the forwards advantage.

I like rather than love statistics. But i get really frustrated with how hard it is to get access to decent stats. The AFL love to compare footy here to sports in the US but our media and our access to decent stats are a complete joke in comparison. It is overwhelming how much publicly available stats there is about the NBA baseball and NFL. And no doubt NHL. ATM, as i understand it only the clubs and some media outlets get all Champion data stats - because they pay for it. The AFL should buy the stats off Champion data and make it publicly available. I would love a thread on DL with up to date decent stats, particularly those about the MFC. For example individual player stats that are more detailed than that on AFL.com or free sites like footywire (which is a terrific site). Do any DL posters have aaccess to champion data stats? if so can they be shared - perhaps not all but at least some more detailed stuff? A thread a analyzing that sort of data would be really interesting.

Absolutely. Might be the best player in the afl full stop within 2 years. Not far away now. Truly a once in a generation plsyer. Not a single club would take lever over kelly if they were given the choice and money was not a factor. But money is a factor for us. Not so much in terms of salary cap but more in terms of the potential damage to the 'brotherhood', team first culture roos and goody have built. That said - and against the predictions of many - it hasnt seemed to have hurt the swans buddy coming in and being paid a fortune

Steve your credibility tank ia almost empty. By the way im still looking forward to your promised analysis of every one of tmacs younger brother's involvements from a game few weeks back.

Yep. But one thing they def want/need is reaaly goos kicks. Lever, no 28, salem, hibberd and jetts all have twrrific de which is important in a defensive unit

What hobby horse? Stating facts?

There are fewer and fewer gorilla keepers and direct man on man defensive match ups as such. Someone like Dunn is becoming increasingly rare. Sure sometimes a Tmac might match up directly against a big but generally you try and stop the talls with your system. To a large extent it is about the oppositions total score not how many the key forward kicks (though obviously they have a relationship). Teams would factor in the players you mention are likely to kick 2 or 3 goals a game and if you limit them to that that's pretty good. And sometimes even 4 or 5 is ok depending on how well you shut down other players. If the lions had kept Jessie to 4 goals they would have almost won. Brown's 4 goals against us (three of which coming from marks from mismatches) in our last roos game wasn't the issue. We kept them to a beatable score. The dees only kicking two goals in the second half was the issue. Here is the top 5 in this years coleman. All are averaging 2-3 golas a game, with the exception of Kennedy who is averaging four. Joshua Kennedy 64 (from only 16 games!) Joe Daniher Essendon 60 Lance Franklin Sydney 59 Ben Brown North Melbourne 56 Taylor Walker Adelaide 49

I'm pretty sure the pies planned to take him. We got him first

I have to say it is looking very likely Lever is coming to the dees. The noise has been consistent, it seems a given he is leaving and the dees seem to be the favorite among journos etc

We also got hunt in that deal. Good deal i reckon

Are you sure about the final 22? This is from an article posted today on the MFC site: Now in its fifth year, 22Under22 is the industry’s only recognised fan-voted award and provides the footy public with the power to select the final 22. Fans can now visit 22under22.com.au to cast their vote, before the final team is revealed at the AFL Players’ MVP Awards on Tuesday September 12. Fans who submit a team that matches the final 22Under22 team will automatically go into the draw to win an AFL Players' prize pack. Voting closes on Wednesday September 6, 2017. Maybe i should do bot spam for TMac's younger brother

Talking about them both. Deifing one. Vilifying the other.

Could he not agree in principle to terms for season 2020? Win a flag at GWS come home to Melbourne and help us win our second in a row? Such a good player and he has what we need. Outside speed and an ability to hit a target. Well to be honest he has what every team needs. Pure class. but i can't see us even trying to get him for next year. too much money and would create issue with the brotherhood.

All reasonable points. I agree it is likely lever will continue to improve but it none the less as i say it is not inconceivable he might plateau

Very good point.

Sure. If you need to. Not sure why you would need or want to though. Lever wont replace no 28. But if we want to compare them - and avoid a silly who will better argument - lets factor in that all players, but particulaly talls develop at different rates. Lever is a gun. But blind freddy can see that. But it is not inconceivable he might level out given he is alreafy playing at a high level. Though it should be noted in this context he is playing in a better side. And it is not inconceivable no 28 has scope for considerable improvement. And pwrhaps more upside than lever. And it should also be noted that whilst there are similarities - age, height, weight, both defenders - lever is much more a rance style intercepr player. No 28 will likely end up 10kgs heavier and play different role, ine more akin to tbat played by tmac. If lever comes to the dees - which i reallt hopes he does - he will be a perfect combination with no 28.

Call me old fashion but i always though supporters defend their own players and bag opposition players not vice versa.

I am. Steve is obsessed with trying to prove himself right about Tmac's younger brother. To be frank it is getting ridiculous.

Of course you do. But you don't overspend. He's a value add.

Careful steve you might scare Lever off with your feverish passion for him. I don't think i can ever recall a DL poster express so much love for a MFC player, let alone one who plays for an opposition team. Have you seen the film swimfan?

Yep, the Astbury and Rance set up is the pro type zone set up. You can't really have gorilla keepers anymore (think Frawley and dunn) as if they are not mobile enough you are one runner down. The skyscrapers are hard to stop no doubt and if you went man on man you would need a taller player rather then Frawley style man on man player to guard them. But with the zones all teams are playing (some zones are more aggressive) you can't really have a defender running with them all day or else your whole ground zone suffers and you are almost a man down (which is why taggers, with some obvious exceptions, have by in large gone out of style). The answer - at least at the moment - to stop the power forward like Dixon and the skyscrapers like Danhier that most teams employ is the zone. And it is hard to do and when it goes wrong the skyscrapers and gorillas have a field day. Look at some of the goals Pedo and Hogan kicked on Sunday. At least four were from marks where the lions zone failed and both players were allowed a free run at the ball. But on other occasions their defensive zone worked really well and they got easy marks down back. They are a young team and it takes time to get zones right. Moving Tmac back and dropping Salem and Frost was risky as it is impacted on the synergy down back, which is critical for zones in football (and soccer and basketball) to work well. I think some of the Saints second half goals and the lions goals were as a result of the zone breaking down. Geelong used Taylor to force Rance to go one on one on him and cut down the damage he usually does with his intercepts. Interestingly Rance, who some consider to be the best defender of the modern era, really struggled one on one and was well beaten by Taylor in the air and the scoreboard. The tigers often send martin really deep knowing generally someone will mark him, which makes it harder for the opposition to set their zone. Lever would fit perfectly into our zone set up and very much play the Rance role.

Perhaps he could also school him on taking a man on in his back half, getting done for dropping the ball 40 meters out and then compounding his error (after his man missed the goal) giving away a silly 50 and giving up a gimme goal. How much did they lose by? Oh that's right 3 points. Just imagine the response from some if the whipping boy had made those errors and cost us a game?

I agree lewis unlikely to play 2 more years after this (im assuming you mean in the senior). I think we will be lucky to get one more year of senior footy. But i very much doubt lewis will want to play out his career at casey, which is what will likely happen if he sees his contract out. I suspect he will retire before allowing that to happen. But even if he chooses to play in 2019, as will be his right, he will be valuable to have at the club given his professionalism and experience - even if he is playing at casey. Also i would think his contract is front loaded and in the second and third years has a number of performance related clauses.