binman

Good lord, we could get into all of each other's accounts!

Boring is a far sigt better than being unable to manage a debate without being dismissive and rude.

Agree with your comment about the evidence. Which is why i was bemused you rejected my argument about tmac being a forward option before the blues game. As i pointed then and just now the evidence was already there for all to see.

A couple of things pd. Firstly, i thought you were pretty dismissive of my argument as to how we could fit lever in and not lose frost. An element of my argument was that tmac was looking more and more a natural forward. You rejected that comment. Ill note it was made before you had your mind changed by his peter hudson performance on the weekend. But lets be honest the signs were there for a while he was a natural forward - unsurprising given he played all his juniour career as one. Even those ding bats darcy and richo pointed how good his leading patterns and forward instincts were way back against the pies - and he did kick 5 against wc. Yet you change your position after last weekends game and have now come to much tbe same conclusion i did prior to the clues game.? Polar opposite views you said. Perhaps it might be better not to be so quick to reject the arguments of orher posters, particularly when you initiate the discussion saying you like dispassionate logical discussions. The second thing is i actually think omac is starting to show sign his kicking could become more of an offensive weapon. There were a couple of excellent bullet passes on tbe weekend from him. One near the end of tbe 1st q that opened up the corridor before lewis turned it over. But yes a work in progress. Agree wirh frost but a real point of difference for frost - and an important part of game plan - is that he is often an offensive threat. He clearly has been instructed to take players on and run hard out of tbe back half. He so often plays on, runs 20 metres and kicks it 50 metres. Yes he can spray it but often he is driving the ball inside our forward line. Huge for us and with hunt they represent a very important part of our strategy. I suspect smith, who i still say may end up as a mid, will play a similar role. I cant see lever playing this style The most simialr player to lever is actually omac. Both are zone defenders whose strength is gettting across to spoil or intetcept mark.

In some regards perhaps. For exampke I thought watts would play all seaon last year. You didnt And more recently you were on the omac is not up to it bandwagon, arguing pedo would be the prefered option once all the tall came back (a view i see you have softened on i see). I disagreed. On both counts. I think ive got some some credits in the bank on the argument front with you PD.

Blimey PD. Because you gave my argument 'short shrift' does not make my argument unreasonable. It only means you disagree with the argument. You have been known to be wrong PD. Jack Watts says hello. And i have been known to be right. As i have said i don't think the back six would be too tall because of how athletic Frost and Lever are. But you don't agree. That's ok

Leaving aside my romantism pd i think i put forward a pretty reasonable argument about how you could fit lever in without losing frost. As i said it is eary days for smith in his career so plenty of time to develop the skills to go into the midfield. If i was in charge and the club wanted lever and jones in i would consider trading frost for sure. As you say he will have some trade value, but i suspect only second round. We will need a higher draft pick to make jones and lever happen. For that reason i would look at brayshaw, though that would be robbing peter to pay paul a bit. Id definetly look at kent, though he woud need to be part of a package deal to have any value - perhaps with jkh or wirh our first draft pick. We also can trade our first draft pick and one from next year as a package. Wagner might come into the conversation as part of a package also.

Well PD i am obviously more a romantic than you. good thing it is not my call. A couple of things though. I am not as keen as some on Jones. Also as i said i think Smith will end up a midfielder. Probably sooner rather than later. Perfect for that role i reckon. Yes he has played down back thus far but it is early days for his career. I can see him and Maynard being a pretty formidable combination in the middle with their strength, size and basketball honed quick and hands and vision. Lets say i'm right. A back six of Hibberd, Jetta, Frost, the McDonalds, and Lever looks pretty damn good. That allows Hunt to go to the wing, which i reckon is an ideal postion for him as he can still use his run and dash, we will still get great meters gained from him, he ca add a linking up element to his game and he becomes more of an offensive threat. Simples

As i said you make a good point about Frost, particularly about his potential trade value. But my solution would be to keep Frost. Partly because i am not totally convinced you can't have all of Tom McDonald, Oscar McDonald, Frost, Lever, and Joel Smith at the club and perhaps even in the same side, particularly if Smith goes to the midfield which i suspect he might. Keep in mind Lewis and Vince have both been playing off the HB and both will finish soon so that frees up some spots down back. Yes i know Lever, Frost and Smith are tall but they are so athletic that i reckon they can play as running half back flankers rather than just as key position players.And i wonder if TMac might end up as an old fashioned swing man given how natural he has started looking as a forward? But i guess the main reason my solution would be to keep Frost is i hate it when any player is forced out of the club. Unless they are a peanut.

Some good points, particularly Smith's capacity to offer the speed and versatility of Frost. But i would hate to see Frost go. I think he has huge upside (which of course gives him some trade value) and i really like his athleticism. Am i right in thinking he was basketballer that came to footy quite late? Lever is very athletic, as is smith and frost and all have the ability to cover smaller players as well as tall ones, (Omac and TMac less so) - a very handy skill in with the strong zone we favour down back. Handy also to have 190 plus athletic types running of the half back line at centre square restarts. It would be interesting to see if they could all play together. With Smith i can see him going into the midfield at some stage.

Ok my wit was more witless than witty. My point was that you cannot seriously suggest that if the $800k offer on the table is correct 'it's clear the FD don't share the same views as many on here in regards to Frost and Oscar'. Surely you are joking? Its clear? That assertion is completely without logic. Clear to you becasue its suits your confirmation bias. If not joking then you are completely clutching at straws about OMac, perhaps because your assessment of him as not at AFL standard has been proven categorically wrong. I can't be bothered going back and find quotes but you have made it abundantly clear you don't rate OMac. Fine. You're welcome to your opinion. But to suggest going after Lever is an indication of how the club rates Omac is just silly. The club has made it crystal clear how highly they rate OMac. He was in the best 22 at the start of the year when we had all of our players fit - after being in the side all last year. He was dropped for 1 (2?) game and since has not look like being dropped. Was it you that said he was only in the side because of injuries to Gawn and Hogan and he would be dropped as soon they were back? If not no doubt you agreed. Well that has been proven to be completely wrong.We are pushing for top 4 and Omac is best 18 lock. Do you at least acknowledge that now? The club rate OMac incredibly highly. Of that there is no question. You don't, but you simply cannot mount a credible argument the club don't. The evidence is compelling that the club rate him. Going after Lever is no reflection on how they rate OMac, or Frost for that matter. Lever is a total gun. Of course they want him. I do too. And have said as much. I see no issue in him coming into the side and Omac, TMac and Frost all playing in the same side. I doubt the club do either. The funny thing is if we did get him you'll be spending the pre season writing OMac off and saying there is no way both him, Frost and Lever can can be in the side. Until they all line up together round one when you will find some other reason to criticise Omac. Unlike you i rate Omac very highly and always have done. In the last few games we are starting to see why i rate him so highly. In terms of my assessment i like that fact that the evidence suggests the highly paid MFC coaching staff who have been in footy all their lives share my assessment.

This is comedy gold. I can only assume you were deliberately trying to be funny and having a subtle dig at yourself. If so then well played sir, If not, then........

Reminds me of steven icke. Not so much in style, more the fact that icky was a brilliant pick up (and also an excellent defender).

I have studiously avoided responding to your posts but this post makes no sense whatsover

He made one crucial in the error, the one that lead to a pies goal. The other one was standard clearing kick from the backline. And in my opinion he was outstanding in the second half against the pies.Critical to our victory in fact. But those comments aside apologies for the criticism. it was supposed to be in jest and riffing on the #OMacmyth idea but i could see how it could come across as a dig. I enjoy the show by the way and i will take up the invitation to call in at some point (i have thought about it but only listened live a couple of times).

#OMacmyths - OMac is a fringe player One of the funniest myths in fact. Fringe players yo yo in out of the side. think ANB, Kent, Stretch, Wagner and from last year Mat Jones. OMac has been dropped once in his career, came back after a week, been in since and in likelihood will play every game for the rest of the year. In fact i would go as far as saying he may not be dropped again for years. A fringe player? hardly. He is key member of our back six - now and in the future. I don't think the coaching staff can make that much clearer. By your logic when we have Jessie and Maxy back he, as fringe player who is lucky to be in the side and only got his chance because Spencer got injured (which given they could have brought Spencer in for OMac last week and this week but haven't is a tenuous argument), is sure to be dropped. But of course he won't be. And then you will have to rely on old #OMacmyths (they are just getting games into him for the future, its not about winning games now its about the future etc etc) or make up new ones (he's lucky the swans have two bigs in Reid and Franklin, he has photos)

#Omacmyths Oscar was lucky to came in when we were short of rucks and we needed to throw in his bro for coverage

I like the accompanying omac highlights package from Monday's game. Its almost as if it were put together for this thread and/or to dispel some #Omacmyths. Some nice first half highlights. I also liked the fact the final highlight they play play to its conclusion - Watts' match winner!

I don't know why there is an issue with the 3 year deal. if he gets to the point where he is not earning regular senior selection i suspect he will retire and they will negotiate a reasonable pay out. With a bit of luck they might be able to keep him involved in the club as they have done so brilliantly with Crossy.

Yep.

It would seem #pedomyths have been put to bed and are no longer thing. In their place we now have: #Omacmyths For example #Omacmyths he had a poor first half against the Pies, a myth repeated by no less a DL luminary as Demonland himself on the DL podcast (which by the has led me to lose a bit of faith in his football analysis skills - i mean even if his bias affected his judgement during the game i have to assume by Wednesday he had watched the replay, but perhaps not) and not challenged by Grapeviney. But there are so many others: not AFL standard, can't read the ball, no other team in the AFL would pick him, is only being picked to fast track his development etc etc. What's your favourite?

He looked furious after the game. Im guessing at himself. Good call. Start him in the centre at the opening bounce. Or maybe running off tbe back of tbe square and through the contest

Great pick up. I saw it on the replay and replayed it a couple of times. No doubt he was directing oliver as he turned to look at lewis, moved position and yes got the clearance. Great for oliver to have somone oh lewis' experience to learn his craft from

Or for someone 'who can not read the ball in flight'. I watched the replay last night and focused on OMacs game looking for errors (in fact i ended up focusing on the errors of all the players, which was weird). As DA notes there were there were two errors from OMac in the first q from left foot clearing kicks. Funnily enough i had thought (and wrote) both lead to goals when in fact only the second did. The first went to a semi contest that Dunn easily marked - but it was closer to our HF than HB so a pretty standard clearing kick. On both sides i counted about 15 such kicks, including one from Hunt under no pressure who elected not go in board, not down the line and set up Sharenburg for an easy mark. One was from Lewis who had three possessions to half time and one was hack of the ground straight to a pies player. Salem did at least two, one directly causing a goal when he kicked it to a player 35 metres out 9Langdon?). The second did result in a goals and he was bagged by Whispers Watson. What was funny was the ball should not have been with OMac. Viney hacked kicked one from a contest that only went 15 metres and straight to Aish on the 50 metre line, who then pumped it back in. Watson criticized Salem and oMc for not handballing but i wonder if the direction from the coach is actually to try and clear the area with a kick such was the frequency players did such kicks rather than handball. It wouldn't be the first time Watson showed how clueless he is about the modern game. I actually wonder if OMacs harshest critics and/or those who think his first half was poor were watching the game on TV not live and were unduly influenced by the dingbat commentators ('the ball fell in his lap, he just put his hand out', 'you can't teach composure', 'he has to get better' etc etc) who know no more about OMac than they do about where Howe has played in the past, Those two bad kicks were OMacs only errors for the day that i saw - and i watched carefully. Two. His first quarter was actually better than i remembered. Lots of composed handballs and kicks that hit hit targets and a goal saving spoil that he followed up and earned a free kick. He was actually not that involved in the second, but made no mistakes and did his job and had a terrific second half. played well for the rest. He was on Moore for much of the game, however not on either occasion when he kicked his two goals OMac had a good game. Not great, but good. And a much better game than many of his teammates Compare his game to Salem who made at least 6 bad errors and cost us at least 4 goals with two within a minute. Or Lewis who had three possessions at the 10 minute mark of the 3rd, one of which was the aforementioned clanger. Or Hunt who continually kicked the ball to the opposition or helicopters into our forward line to the forward's disadvantage. Or Viney who only had 5 possession to half time, one of which was a clanger. Or ANB who twice missed players all alone in our forward line, Or Frost who twice got tackled trying to break lines, with the second resulting in pies game (which none the less earned praise from Whispers who said that's how he plays) and consistently mistimed his marking attempts.

Insert GIF of head exploding. FIRST HALF WAS NOT POOR!!!!!