Slartibartfast

It’s not really. $500,000 in 5 years time will be a below average pay probably.

How did CD rate the teams we put on the field Steve? Serious question. I know you're down on the Club but it not as though we saw it even close to its best.

Well it's not, but anyway..................

I've got no idea where Elliott will go but I think he will leave Collingwood because otherwise he would have said he's staying already. His decision on Brisbane v Melbourne will be mainly based around where he wants to live. Does he want to leave his social network in Melbourne, is there a lure of Brisbane being "out of the footy bubble". Does he want to be close to family (really, after living in Melbourne for so long), what does his girlfriend/wife want to do - I don't know if he's married. Does he want the hassle of moving home. It will depend on other things: how does he compare the clubs potential - I don't think this is the issue many are making out. Everyone in footy knows why we faltered this year and how easily fixed it is. And a tougher draw and a few injuries in Brisbane next year might see them fall. how does he respond to the coaches - MFC have attracted just about everyone we've wanted to since the Roos/Jackson era. Richardson and Burgess against stiff opposition, May and Lever when there were other suitors. Both coaches/footy departments are very impressive internally. What role does the club want him to play. Midfield/forward, forward. Does he know others at the Clubs. and the list goes on. People are taking a far too simplistic a view of this. The offers will be similar and his decision will be fundamentally personal and not related to rating one club above another. Edit: Dazzles information, if true, now means Collingwood are back in the frame and will most likely retain him. Players basically prefer the devil they know....

Burgess would be a huge selling point for us. It's a big move interstate and by the sound of things they haven't established a dialogue before now. We are the one's to beat if he moves.

I thought I saw it here. I might be wrong.

I think you might underestimate what goes into recruiting a player. We have targetted player a long way out (Lever, Langdon) including Elliott. Before any money is mentioned you must convince the player that your club is the one he should play for. That includes values, culture, future prospects, the role he will play and so on. If he doesn't like that money won't even be mentioned. Elliott is a good player who most likely could choose a number of clubs. He's chosen us by the sound of it. We beat the Hawks, that's why they are out of it. Mahoney, Goodwin, Taylor and a number of others have most likely played a role in convincing him we are worth his future. Obviously once that's done the money counts but it's the last piece to fall into place.

Time to get off his back Red, we all know what you think. He’s MFC so let’s support him.

And if Goody had been lukewarm Elliott might have said "they aren't really interested". You're just looking for reasons to criticize. I don't think Bin is naive.

I think the issue with Frost is he's basically a one position player and we have that position covered. The others you're talking about can cover a number of holes if necessary and would cost much less in terms of TPP. I know Frost can play, that's why others want him and his value now is probably as high as it will ever be.

Just two points Red, firstly we don't know what we might get back in the form of a player or pick. Secondly, if Frost is as good as many here are suggesting we'll have every team in the AFL fighting for his services. Reality is KPB is probably one area of the ground we are well covered and we have deficiencies elsewhere. Trade time is when you can fix these issues. If he goes lets see what we get back, then we can judge.

I'd be keen on Daniel or Hill in the deal, both suit our needs better than Caldwell and perhaps aren't as highly rated.

Name the ones with no " go home" factor.

Steve, I wasn’t arguing he’d come, I was arguing we aren’t a rabble. I agree, there are lots of reasons he wouldn’t come, I’ve said I don’t think he will. But I’ll say it again - We are not a rabble. Hope you’ve got the point this time.

Frost is a good player, that's why Hawthorn, and I suspect others, are looking at him. We have good coverage for KPD (assuming they can overcome their fitness issues) and we are in need of repair in other areas of the ground. Trade what you have a surplus in and fill the holes. It won't be a bad trade until we know what we get back and how that return performs. But it's quite logical to look at trading Frost for something we need.

I was responding to "rabble", not Elliot joining. FTR, I doubt he will.

Well I'll tell you why he might choose us. If we are the rabble you think we are why did Burgess and Richardson come to us when they had plenty of alternatives? Why would Langdon and Tomlinson even consider us (and appear very likely to join) given they appear to have a lot of alternatives? Why haven't a raft of players requested trades if we are such a rabble? I think it's because, like me, they don't think we are a rabble and they actually think we have a very bright future. Rather than slashing their wrists and going all hang dog about this season we've just had they may have asked themselves what happened for a club that finish in a PF in 2018 to fall to 17th in 2019. And strangely it happened without us losing a meaningful player(s). They probably thought that a good club one year, without any change of personnel on or off the field wouldn't have had the 2019 year they did without good reason. And here are some reasons (which I've posted elsewhere) they may have considered: These players were in discussions for our best 22 this season:- B: Jetta May Lever HB: Salem OMac Hibberd ? Harmes Oliver Fritsch HF: Petracca Weid ANB F: Melksham TMac Spargo R: Gawn Brayshaw Viney I: Kolo, Jones, AVB, J Smith Others: Hannan, Preuss, Lewis, Stretch, Frost, Hore That's 28 players that I would have expected to form the basis of the team for the season. You can take off and add some of your own but it won't change the arguments below. These players had significantly interrupted Preseasons (17): Jones, Harmes, Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw, Viney Jetta, May, Lever, Hibberd, Melksham, TMac, Kolo, Hannan, Hore, OMac and Stretch These players had Injury ruined seasons after a good PS (3): Weideman, AVB, JSmith, These players had a full PS and good run at the season (8): Salem, Fritsch, ANB, Spargo, Gawn, Preuss, Frost, Lewis I'm working from memory so you can correct me on some of the details but the facts are compelling. 17 or our best 28 players had significantly interrupted PS's and three others had significantly disrupted seasons. Of the 8 players who had a good go at it only Salem, Fritsch, Gawn and Frost were definite best 22 for me and some will add Lewis. That's 4 players and not one midfielder. Now fitness aside, is it any wonder connection from backs to forwards through the midfield was awful. Why? Because they didn't practice over the PS. Is it any wonder our skill level was awful. Why? Because most of our best 22 didn't do a lot of ball work over the preseason and we had a whole lot of NQR players in the team, many who didn't practice over the preseason. So Steve I'm guessing that anyone looking at joining our Club recognizes there are very good reasons for why we were awful this year and they expect us to rebound quickly. I do and Richardson, Burgess and a couple of handy players clearly do. They wouldn't join us if they thought we were a rabble. Why wouldn't Elliott think the same?

You're a harsh man Red and have made your point many times. The kid gives his all but sadly has some important weaknesses in his game. Effort isn't one of them.

Whilst I think there is a lot in what you say I think it's easy to forget how good we were at the back end of 2018. We didn't lack speed and we didn't often get caught out. We were caught out this year because all of our midfield didn't have a preseason. All of them. As for our ball use going forward I think that is very problematic when you have half your team out and the majority of the blokes that deliver it forward missing most of preseason - no practice = less than optimal skills. I agree we'd be better with more pace, I think small forwards and outside pace is lacking, but you put 9 first 22 players back into the team that played NM in the final round and give the mids a preseason and we are not having this conversation. As for game plan I think it's interesting. The Doggies have come alive in the back end of the season playing our 2018 footy. Essendon played some very good footy with that style. Brisbane tried to match Geelong at the Gabba with the "down the line defensive" stuff and were losing by 20 odd points at three quarter time. They played our style footy in the last quarter and won brilliantly. I'm not convinced that our style of footy is wrong or is dead, it clearly needs fit and skilful players to execute it. We need to improve on 2018, we need to hone game plans, we need to address weaknesses in our list. But more importantly than all that we need a good PS, fit players and continuity. It's no surprise that Brisbane and Geelong finished top 2 this year. Neither club had an injury really and the 22 had fantastic continuity which is something we just haven't had, even in 2018 we struggles for continuity. Continuity is totally underestimated by most. I guess the point I'm trying to make is the wrist slashing and view that we are a horrible footy club in crisis and destitute of players is a complete emotional overreaction to a season from hell. Much didn't go right but the infrastructure is there for a very powerful rebound. I don't think there would be one club that has written us off for 2020.

These are our senior players that had uninterrupted preseasons and a good run with few injuries during the season: Gawn, Fritsch, Salem, Frost, Lewis (?), Spargo, Hunt and ANB. That's it. These players either had significantly interrupted preseasons or injury interrupted seasons: May, Jones, Harmes, Petracca, Viney, Lever, Brayshaw, KK, Hibberd, Stretch, Melksham, Hannan, AVB, JKH, TMac, Weid, OMac, Hore and Jetta. We made, against all expectations, the PF playing fantastic footy coached and managed by the group of FD staff that is now undergoing significant change. My very strong view is that most of our issues this year were bourne out of our PS and injury status, the names above show that. The major change we will have next year is a fit list and a good preseason. If we have that we can match it with anyone. Our issues this year were not those in the FD who had proved their abilities with a reasonably fit list in the previous year. I think change is good for the club, new voices and different views, but I suspect much of that change would have happened anyway. Thanks to all those that stuck by us when we were awful and helped form a serious club = Macca, Misso, Craig, Todd, Jade and others I may have missed.

I agree rjay, I've always thought the best trick in footy was getting the ball. He doesn't.

I beg to differ. I can't confirm or deny these rumours, and that's all they are, regarding coming back in poor condition. And even if they did come back underdone much of that is able to be made up in the preseason. But here is what I do know: These players were in discussions for our best 22 this season:- B: Jetta May Lever HB: Salem OMac Hibberd ? Harmes Oliver Fritsch HF: Petracca Weid ANB F: Melksham TMac Spargo R: Gawn Brayshaw Viney I: Kolo, Jones, AVB, J Smith Others: Hannan, Preuss, Lewis, Stretch, Frost, Hore That's 28 players that I would have expected to form the basis of the team for the season. You can take off and add some of your own but it won't change the arguments below. These players had significantly interrupted Preseasons (17): Jones, Harmes, Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw, Viney Jetta, May, Lever, Hibberd, Melksham, TMac, Kolo, Hannan, Hore, OMac and Stretch These players had Injury ruined seasons after a good PS (3): Weideman, AVB, JSmith, These players had a full PS and good run at season (8): Salem, Fritsch, ANB, Spargo, Gawn, Preuss, Frost, Lewis I'm working from memory so you can correct me on some of the detao;s but the facts are compelling. 17 or our best 28 players had significantly interrupted PS's and three others had significantly disrupted seasons. It really wouldn't have mattered if they were a bit underdone at the start of PS. Of the 8 players who had a good go at it only Salem, Fritsch, Gawn and Frost were definite best 22 for me and some will add Lewis. That's 4 players and not one midfielder. Now fitness aside, is it any wonder connection from backs to forwards through the midfield was awful. Why? Because they didn't practice over the PS. Is it any wonder our skill level was awful. Why? Because we had a whole lot of NQR players in the team and many who didn't practice over the preseason. The preseason was the issue not the off season, which may have been garnish to the PS issues but it certainly not the steak.

Hey Pennant, read you PM's.

They were at the city road end when I went in preseason around the end of January.

Fritta did the full session training with the mids from memory. Rawlings was with the forwards as they did the goal kicking which consisted of boundary line snaps and kicking to the front of the goal square from 50 out on the boundary. May didn't train with the forwards. Jetts did the full session but as for playing AFL or VFL I've no idea. I'd play him AFL if he's fit enough but really I've no more idea on that or the other changes than anyone else.