Mad_Melbourne

Hungry, not starving

How many key position defenders, picked around pick 50 are immediately "up to it". Whilst I agree he is not yet at a standard where he is playing at an AFL level 100% of the time, he is still doing more than enough to warrant his spot in the side based on his improvement alone. Not to mention his competition (Dunn) has looked atrocious at AFL level this year

I actually have only just caught up on this, and whilst I am a big Tom McDonald defender and understand he makes mistakes, if people were watching Rance 3-4 seasons ago his disposal was quite poor and even still it is. But it's his defensive acts that make up for it. Tom McDonald is an important piece to our premiership puzzle up there with Gawn and Hogan. There is little to no trade, that will cover his loss and to be fair nothing short of an established kpd who has all Australian seasons left in him will suffice. I for one can not understand how people can not see the importance of him to the side regardless of his few errors he makes a game.

He has definitely improved and you will find no arguments from anyone in that, but the fact that he is averaging 14 disposals a game this year compared to other smaller defenders (Heath Shaw 26, Sam Docherty 25, Jasper Pittard 24) is why he will not push into elite consideration. This is a comp wide status for small defenders and in my opinion he is above average but not elite

Jetta defensive actions are awesome, but when looking at small defenders their output offensively is what sets the good apart from the elite. Someone like Heath Shaw who not only takes the most dangerous small forward but provides offensively is undoubtedly elite, whereas Jetta who lacks offensive drive will not push towards the elite category, IMO. That is not to say that he is not an important player in our backline or our best 22.

Yeh, i just finished reading this and it was quite interesting. I would assume that would put all 3 in the elite bracket for their individual positions, but who knows. Would love access to the stats of every player, but I dont think there is a way you can pay for them off champion data. Regardless, makes sense really that the 3 players pushing to be elite would be them with Hogan pushing to be our 4th

im a big wrap for Hunt, his competitiveness being a major reason he has stood out this year, he definitely needs to clean up his disposal but he can have 400+m gained when not even having massive numbers of the football and this is a really handy attribute. I think he will continue to improve and of course at 21 his best 7-8 years are ahead of him so it will be interesting to see his development over the next couple seasons.

This the other factor on elite that intrigues me, AFL charecteristics such as speed, endurance, strength, leap etc can be used to describe AFL players. Hunt clearly has elite level AFL speed and agility, but does that mean that he could eventually be classified as an elite player or just a player with elite physical attributes. Obviously there is potential for both to occur but would you describe a player as elite if he has elite athletic capabilities?

Yeh, it's an intriguing set up but a lot of it focuses around participation in scoring chains I think, but I don't really know much about it. I I would like them to do a season by season update but also this two year rolling window, would be good to see the form players at current, especially in their positions.

The AFL ratings are based off a two year rolling window, so it probably is much stronger indication of consistent football over a prolonged period rather than this years. In terms of elite, I like the champion data method of top 10% in each position and whilst we had none at the start of this year we will probably have two Max Gawn and Jack Viney off this years stats. Jesse Hogan and Jack Watts could well be close based of stats this year, but I have no understanding of the categories used. Marks, goals and score involvements would be important for a forward and I think that would put both in the above average category or top 35%

This is true, but with the development of Wagner and Hunt, Salem and Lumumba most likely slotting into our backline I wonder the position that is best suited to him. Im intrigued by Hibberd, probably suits us as an upgrade on a Garland type, intercept mark 3rd tall type?

Admittedly I scoffed at your target of 40 goals, this was purely due to the reason that I could not see the massive spike in scoring that we have been able to go through this year, and to be fair I dont think it was a realistic expectation at the start of the year. (considering we are 300 points of what we scored in 22 games last year, averaging over 100 pts per game and sitting 5th in the league for points for, compared to 16th last year.) Whilst I saw improvement, happening I couldnt fathom this amount of improvement in our forward line so could not justify 40 goals as a realistic expectation, especially when Jesse Hogan was our leading goal kicker 44 last year. But this is not because I have no vision, and whislt your comment was not directed at me I thought some sort of explanation for my reasoning makes sense. With the current scoring pattern, a 40 goal season for Watts makes sense. I am going to agree with you in terms of expectations now, Watts has set a standard that he needs to maintain for the next several seasons and this is more in terms of impact during games, he has been able to influence more contests and been a very productive player if not in our top 5-7 this year in terms of importance. This being said, it is still painfully obvious that people who watch the game and posters on here have a clear bias towards errors that Jack Watts makes and highlight his alleged indiscresions or mistakes or what have you rather than his consistent efforts to benefit the team. This will happen his whole career so it makes it impossible to get a baseline judgement on the player.

or collingwood v melbourne this year. We will/should not go the two ruckman set up with Spencer unless we are down a key forward and even in that instance it would make sense Pedersen would be the replacement. Cant see any real changes, unless someone has pulled up poorly from the 6 day break. That being said, we have performed quite poorly after a 6 day and often looked lethargic and thus the possibilty of freshening up the squad with 2-3 changes could be a realistic option. Only player I could really think of rotating out for a rest is Stretch, but he has really been pretty consistent over the past month.

The concept of man on man defence is one which forwards will thrive in, find the mismatch, take them to the square allow for players to play up the field and drag their opponents with them, which is why the way teams are moving is towards a more zone dependent backline allowing for team mates to help out in marking contests. But the real reason it is important is for intercept possession all around the ground. Score of turnover is almost the most important stat in creating a high scoring team, but also creating a lower points against. Plain and simply, the major understanding of high pressure from our forward half, creating turnovers up the ground or at the very least a balloon ball that allows for a spoil/stoppage creation. When our team defence gets picked apart, the biggest issue is the midfielders having little pressure on the football, and this usually was a combination of us spreading forward and making a turnover but also the defence not being able to press up to create pressure on the opposition player benefiting from the turn over. This will improve with time, with players gaining more experience and therefore more likely to win the contest rather than make a fumble or from team mates being able to read the situation better and respond adequately. The way forward is through zoning correctly and our massive offensive improvement this year is majorly due to our defensive aspects being right.

what a system of rating players, the Demonland Player Performance Index. It will help to provide clarity on the potential and the ability of football players and probably will be adopted by coaching and list managements staff.

similar to "the web" that the weagles have implemented in their defence, most teams often set up to guard the space and result in players guarding palyers in the space looking to halve the contest more than win. The reason that this falls apart is based aroudn the midfield more than the backline, if the backline is out of position it is pivotal for them to push at the ball carrier and hope to slow the play for the mids/flankers etc to return back defensive side of the contest. There was a really brief reference to this in Jones on the couch, but more in relation to the bulldogs when he referenced on ball/off ball. The biggest issue for us is that we dont often slow the ball movement and our return from our offensive spread is poor, when we have been playing poor. It will improve, i like it. I remember watching games earlier in the year and Viney who was in sweeper went hard forward and this was my biggest issue, but the clearance often was shut down by pressure put on from the half backs. It will continue to improve as we play it for longer, game plans get better as the players are able to understand it and work through it. I really like the "system based" team approach as all of the good sides have it, and implementing clear structures and roles is pivotal for creating sustainable success, just ask Sydney and Hawthorn

during highschool I played junior football and still hold two records; most red cards recieved and I was the only guy ever to take off my boot and try to stab someone.

On the other hand if it was a 3310

i didnt think there was anything that could make me dislike Clayton, then the name of this thread came about. Clarry Choo Choo? wtf, every time I read it makes me shake my head. Regardless, his ability to be clean below his knees is awesome and this is not something that will have come natural it would have been coached, his vision is what is natural and exceptional

This will happen often due to players playing a role and people going to see the game having a completely different perspective/angle/information provided than th coaching staff. Roles/statistics are hard to understand from the sidelines and the fact that he may have been completely fumbly and turn the football over in the times he was seen by posters. Coaches opinions v posters opinions will be completely different, whilst coaches are much more objective the bias from posters will come into play....not that you have any at all either

Hardly fun, like having discussions with you as you are very bullish with your opinions.

http://demonland.com/forums/topic/39483-2016-is-a-big-year-for/?page=4 The conversation about it starts in this topic. All three of those are quotes from you about Hunt. I only vaguely remember posts because often we have contradicting views and you came in pretty quickly to shut down the optimisim I expressed about Jayden Hunt. Admittedly i never had him pegged in our side til later in the year and his effort in his 2 most recent games have exceeded how I thought he would perform and I love that it looks like we really have found a player. You didnt need to point it out, I was merely expressing that i was stoked on your change of views, obviously due to exposed form, not many posters on here like to change their tune on preconcieved ideas about palyers, that said we hadnt seen much of him so it was always a bit of a guessing game.

I like the fact that you have completely changed your attitute towards the player from before the season started. Whilst im not being antagonisic, I remember a little debate with you where you rated him 40th on our list and said you couldn't see him being a viable option this year. whilst during pre season he looked a little lost, he has come into the side the last two weeks and really been much more than competitive, started to show the ability to change lanes and break lines throughout the Richmond game and I can only see him improving from here.

I'm not sure when Pederson gave away the shepherding free kick in the marking contest but this could have been from his comments to the umpire creating awareness. Finally looking like a side on the up, list management and playing style seems to have been impressive of late. Hard to find the 4-5 players that would be delisted at this stage apart from maybe 1 or 2, and I really am loving it. Heritier Lumumba has shown in the last two weeks how pivotal he is for the next couple of years, his speed both offensively and defensively are pivotal to the back 6 and his ability to compete in the air for the most part has been pretty exceptional.

I made a bet for a rather excessive amount of money with a richmond supporting mate, roughly 10 years ago, that we would make a grand final before they did. In the last 2 years he has been telling me that i better have it ready for him and i keep responding that Richmond are in the process of a fake rise and really need to look at their list as a whole and start pretty much from scratch. Nothing sweeter than beating Richmond and further highlighting to him that at this stage in both lists development I am more likely to see one than he is.