DeeSpencer

That people think Tim Boyle is a gifted writer says it. [censored] footballer, [censored] writer who can really only tell half finished stories about his own sad career. That the Age thinks to publish a story of him [censored] his pants says a lot about where they are at.

There's a few who might be equal with him, but there's no one harder than him in the AFL. I reckon that's awesome. Also Jones might lead by example, but I think Viney might be the drill sergeant. We need that type of player who demands respect.

Not a huge fan of the pain the neck headline, this is pretty serious stuff. Really hoping for the best for Nathan's sake. The good news I guess is he's played through it so hopefully it's a more minor procedure to reduce pain, but either way anything neck related is full on. The good news I guess is we can be really conservative as he's got the build up of preseasons to regain fitness quickly once his neck is ok. Big test for our young leaders and other mature leaders to set the standard that Jonesy does over preseason.

I agree the extra bench spot is wiped out by the drop in rotations. But looking at the top teams Freo and Hawthorn play 2 rucks, whilst WC and Sydney play 200cm forwards who can legitimately ruck. So either way the days of Pedersen or Dawes are numbered. We might be able to play a 2nd ruck more easily and just cop the drop in rotations but that's not a long term solution and Gawn struggles forward whilst Jamar and Spencer are both liabilities forward. Zac Clarke is one I didn't mention in the first post, but even though he's nothing special as a player he'd probably cost a bit in terms of a trade and salary, he doesn't appeal to me.

Just canvassing some thoughts on this position which is one of our weaknesses: Option A: Stick with what we have Part 1.Pedersen (?Out of contract) or Dawes Part 2. Max King rookie retention/promotion Part 3. Frost or Tom McDonald as potential swingmen Option B: - Draft Brett Anderson's draft big board has twin brothers Harry and Ben McKay both 200cm in the top 25. I'm sure draft watchers will know of others. Option C: Trade Kreuzer - unlikely we will want to invest the money Casboult - Don't like his wayward kicking and he's not really an athletic 2nd ruck Josh Walker - only 196cm so not really a ruckman, makes some mistakes forward but on his day can kick goals. Would only be a slight upgrade on Pedersen and Dawes but much younger I'd say sticking with what we have and looking for best available in the draft would be the best idea but instead of starting a thread on every big man who comes along I'd put them here. What does everyone else think? Should we prioritise help in this position?

If the bombers have offered him a 2 year deal then we'd have to do the same and I'm not too keen on that. If he gets delisted he'd probably be better than most and worth a shot at taking one of the last spots on the list. A benefit of having AFL level fit and semi skilled (ie he can kick a reliable drop punt) player finishing off the list compared to a late pick in a bad draft is probably reasonable. He's the kind of player you consider late in trade week not in early September.

They can't keep him, they'd look too stupid. They can't send him to the PSD - he's not out of contract. They have to agree to a trade and Harley has to sign off on it. Pick 6 for Bennell and 19 would value Bennell somewhere around pick 12 I'd say. That's probably the maximum offer. Our job is to do a thorough background check and to get Bennell to commit to the club as his preference. After that happens we can start the bidding much lower. If other clubs want to make offers for a player who doesn't want to play for them and refuses to be traded too them then good luck to them. We can up the offer to one that placates Gold Coast for a player they have all but effectively sacked. I'm not trying to be petty like an Essendon staff member, I'm just saying Bennell's value surely can't be sky high and Gold Coast have minimal leverage. I'd hate to use pick 6 given all the risk involved. Bennell averages 15 games a year the last 3 years and hasn't exactly polled huge votes in the Brownlow. I'd usually reserve pick 6's for guys with a much stronger pedigree regardless of off field problems.

So Bernie was 11th in the coaches votes. All 10 players above him got AA noms. Gray, Martin, Nic Nat, Rance, Deledio, Josh J Kennedy finished below him and also got noms.

Riewoldt leaving will set them back, but McCartin and Bruce should form a nice combination. Not sure if Bruce is a 2nd ruck though, so they'll need someone in that role. Hickey and Longer are decent ruck prospects but I'm not sure if both can play in the same side especially with 2 big key forwards. Dempster and Fisher will leave a big hole in their backline, so Carlisle will be a huge get for them. If they get Carlisle to go with Goddard then that's most of their spine sorted. They have a greater depth of young guys who have stepped up to play some decent footy - Newnes, Webster, Lonie, Sinclair, Savage. A lot of guys who seem to have solid fitness, pace, skills etc to play 2 way footy, so in many games this year they pressured well and also scored. I think they have a lot of guys who are a bit like Billy Stretch or Neal-Bullen in how they are developing in to neat AFL footballers who do a lot of the basics. No doubt Montagna and Riewoldt contribute heavily to the their ability to move the ball and score. A gun outside accumulator and probably still the best lead up CHF in the game is a huge advantage over us (for now). Where our advantage lies is I don't think they have: - A young ruck as good as Gawn - A young key fwd as good as Hogan - A young key defender as good as Tom McDonald (although that changes if they get Carlisle) - Young midfield top end talent or depth (not counting Steven and Armitage) that Viney, Tyson and Brayshaw give us, I prefer our 3 than Dunstal and Weller. Steven and Armitage are younger than Vince and Jones (especially Vince, less so Jones). - A young back flanker as good as Salem We need Petracca to be our Billings I think. The half forward who can do it in the air or on the ground. Then we need a 2nd key forward to help Hogan. Otherwise I'm keen to see what a preseason and a fit bill of health can do for Kent, JKH, Toumpas, Stretch, ANB, White ,O Mc, Harmes, Newton etc as I think with more of these guys playing more regularly we will start to play a more attractive style of footy that regardless of win-loss will get more compliments.

Stiff, but wasn't making the 22 so who cares about the 40. Every year they leave a bunch of good players out of the 40 for guys with bigger reputations. I'll save my outrage for when the team gets named.

What I like about Newton is he seems good enough at contested ball to play in the guts, good enough by foot to play on the wing and smart enough in space and knows where the goals are enough that he can play forward. He has most of the skills and ability to play as a depth rotation guy. With the interchange cap going down that will be even more important. Only 22.5 rotations per quarter means you'll need to rotate between spots frequently. Unfortunately he doesn't look like an AFL level runner yet so he can't play to the best of his ability in any position. Hopefully he learnt this year that he wasn't just unlucky at Port and needing an opportunity but that he needs to be a lot fitter to have a long career.

I think it's the opposite. Players under-performing due to injury or otherwise compared to their contracts have huge stress put on them. Buddy has still done well this year but he's missed games and hasn't been at this best and last year he carried Sydney in a similar (yet different) way to Clark carried Melbourne in 2012. It's why I dislike the contracts given to Scully and Boyd. Way too young and way too much pressure for young guys. No one at age 20 needs that money so don't give them that burden.

Yes the world is unfair. If you have private health insurance and access you can get the best of care. If you are an ordinary Australian without it you'll get adequate care in the public system. If you are a Syrian refugee you will be happy with shelter, food and water. Buddy has made the most of his physical talents, I don't begrudge him good care.

Was just starting to regather his form I thought before the hammy issues. Needs a big preseason to get his running up to the elite level. If he does that then his form will go with it. We know he can find the ball. He's not great short kick but has penetration in his kicking and can kick a goal. Jack Viney had a bit of a meh year last year before rebounding strongly. That's why you have a deep core of young players coming through together.

I love Brayshaw, love the pick 3 as well, but the highest pick available should for compo should be pick 11 so that all non finalists get a crack at a top 10 pick. That's what we should've got last year for Frawley. Carlton this year would either get pick 11 or pick 20 for Kreuzer depending on which category he fell in and we could all live with that. The AFL should just come out today and say, we've changed the rules, Melbourne got lucky, top pick will now be 11, move on.

He's very ordinary and doesn't have a fixed position. Too short for a 2nd ruck, too slow for a key defender, not agile enough for a midfielder.

Petracca, Harmes, Brayshaw, Vanders and dare I mention him Jack Watts. All above 185cm. All with some pace. All (to varying degrees) can take a mark over head. Chuck in Hogan and a half decent 2nd ruck and we don't need a specific 3rd tall forward. That would be my plan. Keep the picks and head to the draft and keep drafting more 188-192cm athletic, strong marking midfield/forward types because as the interchange cap comes down the importance on multiple positions will go up.

Spot on Arrow. White was struggling to run heading to the bench when he was subbed though, so I suspect it was a good sub. The main difference between Grimes and White will be that Grimes has the fitness for AFL, unfortunately that's about all he has. The good news I guess is that Grimes should at least know where he stands for preseason. Ie. he's pretty much done as an AFL player unless he gets his speed, decision making and skill up. The club will know it as well so there's no reason to sugar coat it. We also know he'll give his all for 4 quarters even if he doesn't have much to give. He did kick an important goal in the 3rd quarter and hit a few more targets in the second half as the game opened up. He was good against Freo as well after coming on when a bit of heat had gone from the game. So the challenge is for White to have a big preseason so he's in the picture as a regular player. Our backline was probably our best group when Roos arrived which means we stuck with the same players whilst the midfield and forward line have been largely turned over. Last year we recruited Frost, White and O Mc for the backline and sent Salem back there, next year we will probably see more of that group.

I think that's really up to them. Offering up what is fair value factoring in the off field issues and there desire to be rid of him is the way to go. Talk of 1st round picks are unreasonable. The Hawks have always paid up for players they want but never have they paid overs out of desperation. Each deal and year is a new deal and you start again. Obviously if Howe wants to go to the Gold Coast that complicates things and I'm not suggesting we turn in to Essendon who thinks every one of their players is worth 3 first rounders. We just have to put the focus on getting Bennell to choose us not offering up a big deal for a trouble player. We've done that too often.

Does Ox know Todd is the list manager not captain now? In all seriousness though Mark Williams has apparently been huge for keeping Dustin Martin in line. A type of father figure who knows that young guys will get up to trouble but tries to make sure it's not crossing the line. If we were to get Harley I think we'd need someone to fill that father figure type role. His old man is in jail after all. Maybe that's unfair on him but I think it's true. We'd then probably need players willing to keep track of him when he's out and about and make sure if he goes out for a good time that it's the responsible sort of good time. That's where Karmichael went wrong with Harley. Apparently he made sure he trained and prepared for games like a professional but then he partied like a semi-professional.

Here's the thing as far as I'm thinking. Bennell's contracted for 2 more years. He can't be traded to a club without his permission. Gold Coast can't send him to the PSD as he's not out of contract. If they out right sack him then surely he'd become a free agent I would've thought. If they don't agree to a trade then they'd have to either sack him or keep him which would be a huge embarrassment to them. The point is the club (or clubs) that Bennell nominates to be traded to has a lot of leverage. Especially if he is steadfast in his desire to just get to one club. So whilst the easiest thing to do would be to pay fair value for him to complete the trade and satisfy Bennell and the Suns there isn't any need to get in a bidding war. Our best chance for this to be a success would be to convince Harley that our team, facilities, playing group, leadership etc is the right group for him and then only satisfy Gold Coast with the minimum value that gets the deal done without fuss.

Playing devils advocate but: Fevola, Jurrah, Sylvia, Dayle Garlett, Murray Newman. Then all the kids who never get drafted because the clubs know they the risk is too high. Someone like Yarran who hasn't got in to trouble but hasn't reached a consistent level of footy and you wonder if the off field stuff is contributing. Another worry for Bennell is he's repeatedly missed games with soft tissue injuries. Which is a give away. Now GC have been ordinary in that regard but we haven't been much better. Our strong leaders: 1. Nathan Jones 2. Jack Viney 3. Dunny 4. ?Tom McDonald 5. ? Jesse Hogan Our questionable leaders who train well but don't do much on the field: Grimes, Lumumba, Trengove, Dawes, Garland etc We have a reasonably deep core of committed young/mid career footballers who train and play the right way - Jetta, Watts, Garlett, Gawn, Vanders, Tyson and the younger guys like Stretch, ANB, Harmes, Kent, Brayshaw etc. But most of these guys are only just making their mark as footballers. I have confidence that these are talented young professionals working really hard to be part of a good culture. Again though, the next couple of years are crucial in making sure as a group they work really hard to get the best out of themselves in order for us to cement the culture instead of it falling down like at the end of the Bailey years.

I'm not so much worried about Harley doing damage to other players or doing damage to the club, but more that he doesn't grow up quickly enough and flames out, thus wasting whatever it is we give up for him. I'll take a risk on the contract, but I'd be close to saying I'd only be willing to risk a 3rd round pick. If our second round pick in the draft and/or a Howe trade nets us picks in the top 25-30 I would hate to waste them. Outside mid is our biggest weakness but we can draft and develop there. I'm glad we are interested. Cost nothing to scope him out. But we will need to be very very thorough.

The attacking Howe has played half back most of the year. Salem has when fit. Stretch played half back. I'm not sure why Lumumba was getting a game all year but it certainly wasn't his defensive work. It might've taken a while but eventually young Oscar Mc and White got a chance. Frost has been injured all year and Terlich is Terlich. I'm not sure who everyone thinks Garland should've been dropped for? I'd love to have played Vince more at half back but he was our best mid and with Tyson battling injuries, Vanders injured, Brayshaw tired, Michie and Newton not coming on quickly we didn't have that luxury. You can go around in circles all you want and eventually what you find is that the 22 who played round 1 for us plus Bernie Vince was probably our best team. Stretch, ANB, Harmes, Oscar Mc and Mitch White all put their names up during the year but that's how development is meant to work.

A couple of ordinary kicks, at least one marking contest where he stayed down when he should've gone up but otherwise some pretty solid efforts. Read the play pretty well. Set up young Mitch White and Oscar McDonald in good spots for them to impact. Likely played a high TOG percentage as well. If we are trading Howe and can't get good FA compensation from Garland then it's a no brainer to keep him on a 1 or 2 year incentive based deal. Oscar Mc and Frost might be the future alongside Tom McDonald in our backline but if we get rid of the competition and depth that Dunn and Garland provide then those youngsters (especially given Frost's injury status this year) have to do a lot in a hurry.