DeeSpencer

Why do you care? They are using a list spot on a retired player to pay out the contract owed to them. We have no shortage of list spots. The rookie list really has no difference to the main list these days, moving a senior player on to the rookie list does nothing to help or harm us.

I get the no alcohol thing, that's fine. Good for him. I know most kids have had plenty of drinks by 15 yet alone 18 but some haven't and if he's that committed to his footy then I kind of get that you'd go why even have a first drink? Can't miss what you've never had. There's plenty of other ways to unwind. The obsessive training concerns me. Especially the obsessive training with the dad, he might not be actively pushing him but he's condoning it. Surely there's a point of diminishing returns where you're just running up miles on a young body? Maybe he's the next Brent Harvey and can go for ages but what if he's the next Chris Judd who's body wasn't the same after about 25 and was pretty much done after 30? The obsessive diet concerns me even more and makes me worry he's not far from an eating disorder. He wouldn't be the first footballer. Weighing food and planning a diet is fine, but where's the harm in other people cooking for you or eating out at restaurants you trust? Combine that with the intermittent fasting and it's worrying behaviour. He's already drinking coffee every day - despite not liking it - to stay focused in school because his brain is crying out for some food!

I just saw Michael Apeness was delisted with a contract for next year and a promise of a rookie spot. Does a delisting not void the contract from the players point of view? Constantly injured but I think he's talented. Can or should we steal him from Freo and have a talented 3rd string ruck/forward?

I agree it's time to get a young player in to develop, but I also think the best back up key forward in modern footy is a key defender or ruckman given a role to play. Crash packs, tackle and kick the occasional goal seems to be the 2nd key forwards job and that's done better by a mature body than a young player anyway. The answer to the ruck and key forward depth might be best solved by the same player. If we were going purely for a needs player on the list we'd try to find a younger more athletic version of Pedersen. Not easy to find.

KC, Houston, Chargers

Couldn't find the exact article I remember reading but here's one from Oliver saying he was unsure what the draft combine meant and shocked to know 5 clubs were interested mid season. Clubs had interest in him but that doesn't mean he knew anything about professionalism and the AFL system. Plus he admits his skin folds were 96 after the TAC season! http://www.pressreader.com/australia/shepparton-news/20151120/282557312108186 Here's a story on Roos and the demons team recruiting Oliver. They put time in to learning about his family and his background. Then they set him up to live with the Brayshaw's and then Vanders/Trengove to develop his professionalism. Plus training with guys like Stretch. https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/from-a-parma-and-chips-to-an-afl-star-the-twisting-tale-of-melbourne-young-gun-clayton-oliver/news-story/e851d6ee0121dc71193c34897e04ba67 I think it's fair to say Indigenous players are more likely to suffer homesickness and missing training and being sat out for a game is a red flag but a red line is too much unless you have more to go on. It's the equivalent of ruling a player out on a bad highlights package instead of just putting it down as a concern and doing more research.

I remember an article that said mid year Oliver didn't even know there was a draft combine. After that he certainly improved a lot with extra fitness sessions but the article you posted was from July 1. I'm much more interested to know what Stack has done in the 5 months since than ruling him out from July. Cyril broke his arm in year 12. He didn't do any distance running at the draft camp and had terrible skin folds. He was picked on the basis of his year 10 and year 11 school footy and his pedigree as much as anything. The only thing the Hawks knew was that he stuck around for 4 years of boarding school - even if he did very little schooling, so he was probably going to stick around in Melbourne. They backed in Clarkson, their fitness coach, Chance Bateman's leadership and their culture. Watts getting moved on at 26 shouldn't have any bearing on 18 year olds in the draft.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I don't know anything about this kid, but imagine if Hawthorn felt similarly about Cyril Rioli in 2007. Imagine if we felt the same about Clayton Oliver when he was a chubby kid who couldn't make the Vic Country squads.

Isn't it more about protecting 2018's cap number from a big pay out than 2019's salary cap? Say Langford was owed 400k in 2019. If he's delisted now that 400k has to go in to 2018's salary cap. Redrafting him as a rookie allows them to pay out some fraction in to the 2018 cap and then hold the rest over for next years cap. Also I think it's only the base of a rookies wage that is cap free, not the total. So they might agree on paying him 300k to retire now, dump 200k in to the 2018 cap and then have 100k to pay him next year to be on the rookie list. Also I think the AFL were going to allow clubs to draft 1 extra rookie on the eve of the season so they'll get the list spot back. https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-to-introduce-mid-season-rookie-draft-in-2019-20181004-p507sq.html To be honest I'm surprised we haven't done the same with Jeff Garlett. Maybe we are waiting for the drafts or to see how he comes back in preseason, but I can certainly see us getting him to retire so we can add another rookie by March 15.

I don't think they are that bad. From their side that beat Sydney last year their outs are May (who was best on), Lyons, KK and Lonergan (delisted). They won't be able to replace May or Lynch but everyone else they've let go weren't huge losses. They have far more skilled flankers and young players than we did when we were rubbish in 2013. The question is can a spine scraped together with Witts, Hombsch, Day, Wright, Thompson and 3 state league players do the job and can a midfield led by Swallow, Miller, Miles and Brodie be better than terrible. David Swallow has very much reached the Nath Jones last man on the sinking ship type of player.

Delisted players have become delisted free agents for a number of years now, quite rightly so. If you're cut from one team you deserve the chance to restart your career at the club of your choice. The only issue here is Lyons was delisted with a year to run on his contract but the AFL were satisfied it was a mutual agreement between Lyons and GC to delist him.

An AFL recruiter told me mid year this isn't a deep draft without much talent after pick 40. I think teams are manipulating the salary cap better, using rookie spots and conducting almost a secondary trade period now with delisted players. It's pretty much a trash and treasure swap meet with delisted players. I think rebuilding sides will get most of their picks done by pick 45 and then the teams in contention who have traded in players like the Hawks will roll the dice with late picks. Our strategy seems to be to get 3 good picks and fill the last 3 list spots by the best available means be that drafting one or two more kids, drafting a state league type, picking up a delisted player or having an extra rookie.

Anyone seen much of Sam McLarty? Some Pies fans aren't happy he was delisted. A reasonably high drafted young tall getting the chop after only 2 years is unusual.

So who can we rule out being available at 23? Excluding academy players because their teams picks to match come after 23 I'd say the following names appear too consistently to fall to 23 outside of a dramatic fall: The top names (7): Walsh, Lukosius, Rankine, Rozee, B Smith, M. King, B King The consistent mid first rounders (4): Caldwell, Hately, Clarke, Collier-Dawkins After that the next best grouping, some of which might be available at 23 (9): Duursma, Stocker, Butters, O'Halloran, Sturt, Taylor, Jones, Hill, McLennan Every year there's 1 or 2 bolters in to the top 20 who aren't talked about by the common media/draft experts as well as a couple who the group think has as top 20 who are actually 35+. Keen draft watchers, are there any of the top 11 I've named who are any chance to fall to 23? And what about the next group or any others, who's likely to be gone before we pick?

Interesting player. Pick 22 promising first season and makes his debut. Injured all second season. Then 3rd season just never gets going in the VFL for a 3rd year midfielder. Usually when that's the case it tells me one way or another he's not really that committed to an AFL career. Even if he's just a stumpy early developer who's career plateaus he should be tearing up the VFL getting 30 touches every week pushing for games.

Oops I've stuffed up haven't I! My mistake

don't mind me..

Higgins came in to the team and gave them another skilled pressure player. Conca came in as a defensive midfielder. Martin played more forward as the 3rd marking option. Townsend might’ve lost a bit of confidence with his marking and skills and the Tigers thought they had enough pressure from the guys they had. Townsend beat Lever in the grand final - kicked 2 goals from a soft free kick and getting away with a hold. Lever beat him easily on Anzac Eve and about all he did was nail Jones with a legal but cheap shot tackle. He’s right in that zone where he’s a great role player in a team playing well when he’s confident. He’s a liability if he’s not doing his role.

More than anything this is saying we want 6 main list spots and 2 rookie spots. 7 and 1 was always going to be hard to fill. 4 draft picks that we rate on 2 year deals. 2 rookie draftee pick ups on 1 year deals if it doesn't work out. 2 more list spots to fill some other way. I like Maynard as a depth option. Excellent size, really good athleticism and hard at it. Moving him to the main list is recognition for his professionalism and in some ways an incentive to get back, play some good footy and stick with us. Will have to improve his kicking and feel for the game to be a long term player but I think he'll be handy next year and in the short/medium term even if he doesn't.

Tall forwards: T Mc, Weid, T Smith Medium forwards: Melsham, Petracca, Hannan Small forwards: ANB, Spargo, (Garlett if he isn't retired) Mids/forward: Vanders, JKH, ? Fritsch There's not a lot of depth to our forwards. After the 7 who played in last years finals it's either T Smith or Preuss to cover the talls or midfielder types to cover the small and medium options assuming Jeffy is cactus. Obviously the draft is the number 1 priority here to find some long term quality but there's room for a ready made depth option. I'd be searching the delistings and state leagues looking for a crumber, but if there's not one out there I can see why you take Townsend because he's a reliable defensive pressure player who can do a job whilst the other forwards kick the goals.

Interesting, there are some names there like Membrey and Roberton who would've been traded but the deals didn't really work so the clubs let them walk as delisted players. Same for some of the veterans for which delisted is a little harsh. Good teams in the Hawks and Swans have found value with Simpkin, Laidler and Henderson. We just have to find the right guy if there's one out there for us.

C - Viney VC - Gawn Can see the benefits of dual captaincy and would consider it if that's how it looks in preseason. Viney obviously needs to get himself 100% right and it's impossible to know from the outside how the relationships between these guys and younger players are. LG - T McDonald, May, Jones If he settles in well and has the right work ethic and respect with the group I'd throw May in. If he plays anywhere near his best he'll be the leader of the backline, he should have the title. T Mc leads the forward line. Gawn/Viney the mids. Jones should stay in even if he's not locked in the best 22 or playing a vital role because a veteran with the connection to the younger players is important.

I see Josh's role overseeing the football department mainly broken down in 4 areas: Coaching, medical/fitness, list management and culture. Shorting of asking Josh to explain his own role I have a number of questions based on what I think is important. Coaching: Does the club have a kicking coach? If not why not? Medical/fitness: Repeated foot injuries, what's the plan? Has it been reviewed? List management: I don't have a question here, whilst I think there's still work to do I'd give the team a tick on this one! Culture: How are the players, staff and fans embracing success and what's the plan to embrace it whilst not getting ahead of themselves?

Wouldn’t be against Townsend just to have another big physical guy at training and at Casey to drive the standards. Plus I’d roll him out for the Anzac Eve game. Partington was delisted early for a high pick, not sure he’s much of a player but I can see the appeal of a mid/half forward type. I think he has decent pace/fitness. Skill level and size the concerns Karpany probably appeals more because of our lack of crumber but he’s been in the system for a long time with little results.

I’ll predict through necessity he’ll play high up at the ground at CHF where he rarely had the poor body language and play very well. Just like he did in years 1+2 here. In fact Lobb at FF suits him as a partner more than any Melbourne forward did. I’ll predict he averages 20 touches, 8 marks, 2 goals but doesn’t really make Freo all that much better because even though a lead up CHF is nice it’s only required if your team doesn’t move the ball quickly and accurately enough to produce flowing direct passages of play.